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A word on Enlightenment

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posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 





If any part of you is seeking an enlightened state you are doing it wrong.


Yet the Dali Lama said that we should pursue enlightenment with all out hearts. I found his statement confounding.




posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by absolutely

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
Thoughts are not an illusion, they are thoughts. If you give them power they grow and can become alive. We are God's thought.


this is the illusion, when u r stating like u do smthg else, u r being pathetic as well as illusionist

we are god thoughts live with it, yea truth would come and pick u hey reapeat it again?? yea there keep going on u said it u r #


I can't make sense of your comments except to know you are insulting me.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by BlueMule
There, I spent a little energy trying to enlighten you. For free, even.


That is a cheesy comment bro, I don't think anyone who is enlightened will ever be cheesy. If you don't have love or live by the spirit I don't think you can be enlightened.

I think the world is ignorant because when I go out into the world they don't want to talk to me in Arizona, but if I go to another state or place, or meet someone from another place they want to talk to me. This state is probably the most ignorant state in America. So when I go out today I hold it as very important to communicate with people at the gas station or on the street, just because they always look down and it frustrates me. I'm just going to say what's up to them and watch them look at the ground like a coward, Arizona is pitiful as a general whole compared to some other places, but then again it makes you look at those other places and hold them in a different regard, making it seem very thankful that they even exist - that the whole world is not ignorant.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


There appears to be something, but something has to be nothing to beable to reappear as different. Everything that is seen is constantly changing, moving. Sounds appear now and disappear now, there has to be a space between notes in music, one after the other they appear and disappear. Existence appears to exist but is transitory, ever changing, it goes on and off but we do not notice it. Every 'thing' in apparent existence is appearing and disappearing, quantum physics take a vacumn and watch 'virtual' particles appear and disappear.
Only the space (no thing void) is constant, it is where the appearing existence shows. Like fireworks appearing in the sky.


edit on 22-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by greyer

That is a cheesy comment bro, I don't think anyone who is enlightened will ever be cheesy. If you don't have love or live by the spirit I don't think you can be enlightened.


Sounds like you have certain expectations. Enlightened people are fully human, and they come in all temperaments. Please release me from any and all preconceived expectations you might have.

Enlightenment isn't a one-time thing, it's an ongoing process that doesn't end when you reach a goal-line. There is always more to learn, always more transformations. Just like being born. When you were born, were you done transforming? No? The same is true for rebirth. I have been reborn in the next world, but that doesn't mean I'm done transforming.

Sort of like The Matrix. When Neo was first freed from the illusion of the Matrix, was he all done learning and growing? He was a million miles beyond the people still trapped in the illusion, but still had a long way to go. A lifetime to go.



Enlightenment doesn't compel me to try to see to it that everyone else is enlightened right now, and that does not mean that I don't love everyone. I do. I have unconditional, undifferentiated love and forgiveness and acceptance for everyone. Including for myself and any occasional cheesyness or whatever on my part that you might percieve or think you percieve. I'm not going to lift a finger to conform to any stereotypical expectations anyone might have.

I will lift a finger to help someone move toward enlightenment, but only until I sense that they aren't taking the posture of a student. Then I will refuse to take the posture of a teacher and move on.


Arizona is pitiful as a general whole compared to some other places, but then again it makes you look at those other places and hold them in a different regard, making it seem very thankful that they even exist - that the whole world is not ignorant.


In Arizona you can go on a spirit-walk. There are very few other places that can give you that opportunity.

www.peyoteway.org...


edit on 22-6-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Realtruth
reply to post by Theophorus
 


Here is my word on enlightenment, well actually four words.


"Live in the now"

Peace out,

RT



What you experience as "now" actually occured in the past.....



Prove it!



It's already been proven...

It takes time for stimulus impulses to reach your brain and time for your brain to process that stimulus, so everything you experience has already occured.

Use your noodle....



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by Blarneystoner

Originally posted by Realtruth
reply to post by Theophorus
 


Here is my word on enlightenment, well actually four words.


"Live in the now"

Peace out,

RT



What you experience as "now" actually occured in the past.....



Prove it!



It's already been proven...

It takes time for stimulus impulses to reach your brain and time for your brain to process that stimulus, so everything you experience has already occured.

Use your noodle....


Are you familiar with the presentiment line of parapsychological research? Very promising.

www.quantumconsciousness.org...




posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Blarneystoner
 


Seeing happens presently. The mind may 'think' and name and catagorize about an event after the event but the awareness is always present.
edit on 22-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
say the something early on in the existence of everything was aware,,, would it have just come into awareness? or would it have always been aware? if it was always aware,, it is god....... if god always existed and was always aware and something,,,,, then how can we say there isnt a higher more bizaree cause for this eternal something/ ever aware god,, that god cannot even know or fathom?


Yeah, I don't buy 'awareness' without a machine to produce it (a brain, something with a storage area to retain knowledge, and with nerves and synaptic gaps firing to produce thought).

There are brilliant people that insist all this something came from nothing. They'll show you complicated math to prove it. It's not happening for me. Not buyin' it for one second. Nothing equals nothing equals nothing. That's all.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule
Sounds like you have certain expectations. Please release me from any and all preconceived expectations you might have.


No expectations with me, I just go by what I see.


Enlightenment isn't a one-time thing, it's an ongoing process that doesn't end when you reach a goal-line. There is always more to learn, always more transformations. Just like being born. When you were born, were you done transforming? No? The same is true for rebirth. I have been reborn in the next world, but that doesn't mean I'm done transforming.

Sort of like The Matrix. When Neo was first freed from the illusion of the Matrix, was he all done learning and growing? He was a million miles beyond the people still trapped in the illusion, but still had a long way to go. A lifetime to go.



Enlightenment doesn't compel me to try to see to it that everyone else is enlightened right now, and that does not mean that I don't love everyone.


That view is similar to the teachings of Christ.

To me enlightenment is to demonstratively seperate reality from whatever is not. There are aspects that grow from this - energy and wisdom, what I need is to control the energy and understand the mysteries to do magic.


In Arizona you can go on a spirit-walk. There are very few other places that can give you that opportunity.

www.peyoteway.org...


I was talking on experience. I have done what I said I was going to do, and it is easier for people to talk to me today because they saw that I was going to talk with them anyway. They didn't have much of a chance to look down at the ground when they knew I was going to talk. Anybody who does not ackowledge any form of body language to me does in fact hate me for being a free spirit. I can see it in there face, in their body language when I give us the opportunity to communicate in body language. Everybody is surely communicating to a large degree all the time when they are in each other's visual perception. Today, probably 2 or 3 inviduals hated what I was doing, 100 or so liked it. In this state I am going to have to show them how to go on a spirit-walk because it is factual that everyone would continue looking down when around each other.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by absolutely

Originally posted by jiggerj
If a state of absolute nothing cannot, and does not exist, then by default there must be SOMETHING. All the little somethings exist simply because a state of absolute nothing does not exist.



this is also kind of smart but not true enough

believing that things could b created only to avoid nothing existence fact is sorry stupid, but here where i retract the word sorry to introduce evil since stupidity do not exist then it is a lie

u refuse to admit what could mean an awareness in nothing space, it is much more things then here and now while the awareness is by itself existing multiplicities while also being of else multiplicities
existence as u see it on the contrary from that sense mean to limit its fact to nothing even preferably in order to compensate its unbearable infinite growth, that is kind of better guess


Some homework for you: Create an awareness, a consciousness, out of thin air. I'm giving you an advantage with all the particles within the air. If this cannot be done with just air (and it cannot be done) then how much more impossible is an awareness made out of nothing?



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj
 


There appears to be something, but something has to be nothing to beable to reappear as different. Everything that is seen is constantly changing, moving. Sounds appear now and disappear now, there has to be a space between notes in music, one after the other they appear and disappear. Existence appears to exist but is transitory, ever changing, it goes on and off but we do not notice it. Every 'thing' in apparent existence is appearing and disappearing, quantum physics take a vacumn and watch 'virtual' particles appear and disappear.
Only the space (no thing void) is constant, it is where the appearing existence shows. Like fireworks appearing in the sky.


edit on 22-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


I've been struggling with the concept of particles popping out of this dimension and popping back in again. Is there proof (I don't think so)? If we cannot track something going the speed of light, then why can't these particles just zoom out into another part of THIS dimension? With a totally different particle zooming in to where the other particle once stood?



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by greyer

No expectations with me, I just go by what I see.


"That is a cheesy comment bro, I don't think anyone who is enlightened will ever be cheesy."

Somewhere along the way you picked up an expectation that enlightened people can't ever make comments you percieve to be cheesy. Just admit it and release people (and Arizona) from the burden of your expectations and judgments. You'll find that releasing others frees you too. To have, give all to all.


That view is similar to the teachings of Christ.


As it should be, since I am of the Sonship. I extend the Kingdom of God in my own way, since I am created to be a creator, as are all my brothers in the Sonship past and future.


To me enlightenment is to demonstratively seperate reality from whatever is not. There are aspects that grow from this - energy and wisdom, what I need is to control the energy and understand the mysteries to do magic.


To me enlightenment is a word, and words are symbols, and symbols are like a finger pointing to the moon. People get hung up on the finger when they should be flying to the moon.




edit on 22-6-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Blarneystoner
 


Seeing happens presently. The mind may 'think' and name and catagorize about an event after the event but the awareness is always present.
edit on 22-6-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)


Prove it....



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


ok nothing equals nothing equals nothing............


how is something?

you say something always is,, it always was.....

how?


It think we are so far away from the beginning ,.,.,. so far from that beginning that never began ( for you say it always was) so ill say we are so far from that past,, that earlier point in this line of time,,,, that things are so complex and the layers go so far beyond this universe,,,, like infinity to the infinite power and dimension, in an ocean of infinities,,, we had to be created,,,,, in this version of universe,,,, time had to cause us to exist in order for us to be here to think and talk and live about it,,,,,,, other then that we have no clue about whats really out there,,,,,, when and what it is,,,,,, everything we think we know besides our material maps of reality are falliable,, and even those can be somewhat messy,,,, because we can think anything at any time,,,,,,,, thought is not censored,,,,,,,



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj
 


ok nothing equals nothing equals nothing............


how is something?

you say something always is,, it always was.....

how?


It think we are so far away from the beginning ,.,.,. so far from that beginning that never began ( for you say it always was) so ill say we are so far from that past,, that earlier point in this line of time,,,, that things are so complex and the layers go so far beyond this universe,,,, like infinity to the infinite power and dimension, in an ocean of infinities,,, we had to be created,,,,, in this version of universe,,,, time had to cause us to exist in order for us to be here to think and talk and live about it,,,,,,, other then that we have no clue about whats really out there,,,,,, when and what it is,,,,,, everything we think we know besides our material maps of reality are falliable,, and even those can be somewhat messy,,,, because we can think anything at any time,,,,,,,, thought is not censored,,,,,,,


Instead of thinking all the way back to figure out what was nothing, I try to start from something and work it back as far as it will go.

Take anything, how about water? How do we bring water to a state of nothing? First we have to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. Now we have atoms of both elements. But, how do we get rid of them? How do we bring these elements all the way to nothing? Break the atoms into quarks. Okay, now we have quarks. Reduce them to (I know it's a stretch) strings, as in string theory. Strings are energy, right?

Can energy be burnt off into nothing? No, whatever is burned will still produce something. I dunno, carbon? Gases? I just don't know. But I do know that SOMETHING will remain.

If all the somethings started from nothing, then there should be a way to turn something back into nothing. But, we can't.

Just to head off the naysayers at the pass, some will say that there is nothing inside the quarks, so we have reached a point of nothing. No, no, no, the shells of the quarks remain. We didn't reduce them to nothing. Can't be done.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Guys, you can't rely on the reasoning intellect or science to get you to enlightenment or to try to figure out whether seeking enlightenment is a worthy pursuit or not. You have to take the red pill; you have to peer through the telescope.

"Of course, I am by no means denying the importance of thinking. There is no question that linguistic thought is indispensable for us. It is, in large part, what makes us human. It is the fabric of almost all culture and every social relationship. Needless to say, it is the basis of all science. And it is surely responsible for much rudimentary cognition—for integrating beliefs, planning, explicit learning, moral reasoning, and many other mental capacities. Even talking to oneself out loud may occasionally serve a useful function.

From the point of view of our contemplative traditions, however—to boil them all down to a cartoon version, that ignores the rather esoteric disputes among them—our habitual identification with discursive thought, our failure moment to moment to recognize thoughts as thoughts, is a primary source of human suffering. And when a person breaks this spell, an extraordinary kind of relief is available.

But the problem with a contemplative claim of this sort is that you can't borrow someone else's contemplative tools to test it. The problem is that to test such a claim—indeed, to even appreciate how distracted we tend to be in the first place, we have to build our own contemplative tools. Imagine where astronomy would be if everyone had to build his own telescope before he could even begin to see if astronomy was a legitimate enterprise. It wouldn't make the sky any less worthy of investigation, but it would make it immensely more difficult for us to establish astronomy as a science.

To judge the empirical claims of contemplatives, you have to build your own telescope. Judging their metaphysical claims is another matter: many of these can be dismissed as bad science or bad philosophy by merely thinking about them. But to judge whether certain experiences are possible—and if possible, desirable—we have to be able to use our attention in the requisite ways. We have to be able to break our identification with discursive thought, if only for a few moments. This can take a tremendous amount of work. And it is not work that our culture knows much about.

One problem with atheism as a category of thought, is that it seems more or less synonymous with not being interested in what someone like the Buddha or Jesus may have actually experienced. In fact, many atheists reject such experiences out of hand, as either impossible, or if possible, not worth wanting. Another common mistake is to imagine that such experiences are necessarily equivalent to states of mind with which many of us are already familiar—the feeling of scientific awe, or ordinary states of aesthetic appreciation, artistic inspiration, etc.

As someone who has made his own modest efforts in this area, let me assure you, that when a person goes into solitude and trains himself in meditation for 15 or 18 hours a day, for months or years at a time, in silence, doing nothing else—not talking, not reading, not writing—just making a sustained moment to moment effort to merely observe the contents of consciousness and to not get lost in thought, he experiences things that most scientists and artists are not likely to have experienced, unless they have made precisely the same efforts at introspection."

Sam Harris


edit on 22-6-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by Blarneystoner
 


I don't need to prove it to you, if you can't see, you can't see, but i can.



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