A word on Enlightenment

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But if we are living in an infinity or infinite existence then there is no beginning and no end

I agree. This realm of the 'Something' has always existed simply because a state of absolute nothing could never exist.

This is just mind blowing to me,,,, and does not make sense,, to me,,,,,

"something has always existed"..... when was the first time,,,,, when and where are we starting to keep track,,,, and what was before that?

"because a state of absolute nothing could never exist" ,.,.,.,. OK so lets say a millisecond before the something began to exist ( i know you dont think it ever began..?) there was nothing....... what crafted the something? what would the something be made out of? where did it come from?

if the something is always there,,,,,,,,, why is it exactly the way it is, and not jello,,, or a million other ways besides this one?

.,.,.,.,,.,.., If you can somehow prove that statement better or detail it better,,, it would be the perfect idea for rwfresh and itsnowagains philosophy,,,,,,,, maybe its an idea they except and thats what allows them to confidently believe their philosophy....... because if the something is self crafted from nothing,,,, i would say yes the universe is one big dream conducted by a default state of infinity..... but for us and every speck involved in this dream,,,, illusion does not even exist,,,,, this is all weve ever know,,,, and there for all that we know is real...
it would be the only way something could be real,,,,, it cant be nothing,,,,,,, nothing cant be,,,,,, so theres always something,,,,, whatever that something is,,,, would be what is real..

reply to post by BlueMule


I was merely making an observation, the perspective of which you may not be aware, and I've not a problem with that. There it is again! Perspective! Hah this was fun. Your repetition is interesting as well. Duality, too.

Partaining to this thread and the original post, all I can say is that I know just enough not to say anything about the enlightened or the unenlightened, except that one views the other as unenlightened. Whatever one may or may not take from that statement is not for me to say.

I thought you said 'A world of enlightment.'

I was like yeah right, a world of enlightment? lol

We are living in a world of secrecy and ignorance. New age is BS, oldschool is real, and seeing through the liars of the oldschool, now that is real. John Lear - he is just funny because you can tell when is lying, you can tell that he'll make up something so stupid from the top of his head and just say it to the public like any person in a town of New Mexico without a gas station or local super market will pay attention to what he says. Crashed saucer? Well yeah.

reply to post by NorEaster


Who are you to demand somebody else describe their beliefs to? What is it you believe? This message was intended for certain people. You can take it or leave it.

I've been told by different people what enlightenment is, and really, it sounds rather boring. I often think the saying in the Tao Te Ching holds true in that it says, "Those who know do not say and those who say do not know" (qoute from memory, be kind )

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

Originally posted by greyer

We are living in a world of secrecy and ignorance.

Correction: we are living in an age of secrecy and ignorance. Other ages haven't been and won't be so bad.

For all things there is a season. This age is the cosmic season of ignorance, and like the seasons, the ages are cyclical. The Hindu call this age the Kali Yuga.

There, I spent a little energy trying to enlighten you. For free, even.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Arles Morningside
I've been told by different people what enlightenment is, and really, it sounds rather boring. I often think the saying in the Tao Te Ching holds true in that it says, "Those who know do not say and those who say do not know" (qoute from memory, be kind

P).

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

Very nice. I like it!

Originally posted by Arles Morningside

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

She will call. But the call can go unanswered or be refused.

Refusal of the Call

Often when the call is given, the future hero first refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances.

Campbell: "Refusal of the summons converts the adventure into its negative. Walled in boredom, hard work, or 'culture,' the subject loses the power of significant affirmative action and becomes a victim to be saved. His flowering world becomes a wasteland of dry stones and his life feels meaningless—even though, like King Minos, he may through titanic effort succeed in building an empire or renown. Whatever house he builds, it will be a house of death: a labyrinth of cyclopean walls to hide from him his minotaur. All he can do is create new problems for himself and await the gradual approach of his disintegration." [3]

www.enotes.com...

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Originally posted by Arles Morningside
I've been told by different people what enlightenment is, and really, it sounds rather boring. I often think the saying in the Tao Te Ching holds true in that it says, "Those who know do not say and those who say do not know" (qoute from memory, be kind

P).

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

Very nice. I like it!

Actually those that do know, do tell because everything speaks of enlightenment. They tell you but you can't understand. You assume, and assumptions are not it, so...

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by Arles Morningside

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

She will call. But the call can go unanswered or be refused.

Refusal of the Call

Often when the call is given, the future hero first refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances.

Campbell: "Refusal of the summons converts the adventure into its negative. Walled in boredom, hard work, or 'culture,' the subject loses the power of significant affirmative action and becomes a victim to be saved. His flowering world becomes a wasteland of dry stones and his life feels meaningless—even though, like King Minos, he may through titanic effort succeed in building an empire or renown. Whatever house he builds, it will be a house of death: a labyrinth of cyclopean walls to hide from him his minotaur. All he can do is create new problems for himself and await the gradual approach of his disintegration." [3]

www.enotes.com...

edit on 21-6-2012 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Very dramatic. I think he would have had an easier time if he would have just went to an Inn or set a blanket out under a tree by a calming stream with the breeze passing by and ofcourse some smokes and a bag of candy to get him through. I wonder if he knows even stones have potential, he wouldn't feel so down and out then.

reply to post by Arles Morningside


That's what your ego-self wants you to think. That way you can just kick back and avoid the messy trials and tribulations of the journey toward enlightenment. They can be pretty darn scary.

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Originally posted by Arles Morningside
I've been told by different people what enlightenment is, and really, it sounds rather boring. I often think the saying in the Tao Te Ching holds true in that it says, "Those who know do not say and those who say do not know" (qoute from memory, be kind

P).

Who really can tell another what enlightenment is but surely It will tell you itself, if she's there to be experienced.

Very nice. I like it!

Actually those that do know, do tell because everything speaks of enlightenment. They tell you but you can't understand. You assume, and assumptions are not it, so...

Maybe! I may need some lego demonstrations here, as I am a foole you know. One thing I do know about that saying is that it isn't as it appears on the surface and is conveying a deeper but simple meaning. And if all things illuminate (I was wondering what all that bright shiney stuff was, i guess it wasn't glitter) surely it must speak to us Itself, if she's there to be experienced. My point really was to demonstrate that we sometimes take to dictation rather than see ourselves as guides if Lady Enlightenment has something to say through us. I'm guilty of this anyways.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

Originally posted by jiggerj
We are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, minerals, energy... Everything we are stays right in the realm we call 'Something'. We cannot slip into a realm of nothing.

The human body might just as well be something like a mobile phone or remote controlled robot and at the other end there is 'us' talking through it and expressing the individual through it. Once the phone desintegrates or the robot is worn out, the signal is lost forever and whatever it is at the other end cannot express itself through it anymore.

Once this shared experience of existing ends for the entity on the other end it will simply find itself in a new place.

Why is there such a need to complicate life? Considering the size of the universe we are bacteria growing on the head of a pin. We are not special. We are not connected to some grand scheme. That's it.

Why don't you see that you are complicating life. Others are talking about witnessing reality unfold but you try to contain it all with complicated concepts. You say that we don't know enough but you have stopped questioning. They answers are unknown and what you think you know will pass and new realities will exist.

If some things remain the same, what are they?

Originally posted by BlueMule
reply to post by Arles Morningside

 

That's what your ego-self wants you to think. That way you can just kick back and avoid the messy trials and tribulations of the journey toward enlightenment. They can be pretty darn scary.

Sure, it comes and it goes as surely as the sun sets and rises and the stars run their courses. I've noticed how trees do nothing yet do everything as the world spins about them.

The tree that reaches up to heaven has roots that reach down to hell. How far down have you dug your roots?

reply to post by BlueMule


When I think about it, I see i've got alot of roots and branches, and some cute little leaves on top, I reckon I'll be in the forest awhile to keep the other trees entertained *laughs*.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But if we are living in an infinity or infinite existence then there is no beginning and no end

I agree. This realm of the 'Something' has always existed simply because a state of absolute nothing could never exist.

This is just mind blowing to me,,,, and does not make sense,, to me,,,,,

"something has always existed"..... when was the first time,,,,, when and where are we starting to keep track,,,, and what was before that?

"because a state of absolute nothing could never exist" ,.,.,.,. OK so lets say a millisecond before the something began to exist ( i know you dont think it ever began..?) there was nothing....... what crafted the something? what would the something be made out of? where did it come from?

if the something is always there,,,,,,,,, why is it exactly the way it is, and not jello,,, or a million other ways besides this one?

.,.,.,.,,.,.., If you can somehow prove that statement better or detail it better,,, it would be the perfect idea for rwfresh and itsnowagains philosophy,,,,,,,, maybe its an idea they except and thats what allows them to confidently believe their philosophy....... because if the something is self crafted from nothing,,,, i would say yes the universe is one big dream conducted by a default state of infinity..... but for us and every speck involved in this dream,,,, illusion does not even exist,,,,, this is all weve ever know,,,, and there for all that we know is real...
it would be the only way something could be real,,,,, it cant be nothing,,,,,,, nothing cant be,,,,,, so theres always something,,,,, whatever that something is,,,, would be what is real..

I've said this before and I stand by it: People don't like simple answers, and the explanation couldn't be more simple. It is by default that everything exists.

If it can be said that a wash cloth is not dry, then by default it must be in some state of wetness (sopping wet, damp, moist...). Who would argue with this? It is SOOO simple and logical.

If it can be said that a baseball is not at rest, then by default the ball is in some kind of motion (flying through the air or sitting on the back seat of a moving car). Right?

If a state of absolute ever existed (nothing plus nothing equals nothing), then that state would still exist, and it would exist forever. Since everything is made of SOMETHING (atoms, quantum particles...), then we can make what should be the most obvious statement of all:
If a state of absolute nothing cannot, and does not exist, then by default there must be SOMETHING. All the little somethings exist simply because a state of absolute nothing does not exist.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But if we are living in an infinity or infinite existence then there is no beginning and no end

I agree. This realm of the 'Something' has always existed simply because a state of absolute nothing could never exist.

This is just mind blowing to me,,,, and does not make sense,, to me,,,,,

"something has always existed"..... when was the first time,,,,, when and where are we starting to keep track,,,, and what was before that?

"because a state of absolute nothing could never exist" ,.,.,.,. OK so lets say a millisecond before the something began to exist ( i know you dont think it ever began..?) there was nothing....... what crafted the something? what would the something be made out of? where did it come from?

if the something is always there,,,,,,,,, why is it exactly the way it is, and not jello,,, or a million other ways besides this one?

.,.,.,.,,.,.., If you can somehow prove that statement better or detail it better,,, it would be the perfect idea for rwfresh and itsnowagains philosophy,,,,,,,, maybe its an idea they except and thats what allows them to confidently believe their philosophy....... because if the something is self crafted from nothing,,,, i would say yes the universe is one big dream conducted by a default state of infinity..... but for us and every speck involved in this dream,,,, illusion does not even exist,,,,, this is all weve ever know,,,, and there for all that we know is real...
it would be the only way something could be real,,,,, it cant be nothing,,,,,,, nothing cant be,,,,,, so theres always something,,,,, whatever that something is,,,, would be what is real..

I've said this before and I stand by it: People don't like simple answers, and the explanation couldn't be more simple. It is by default that everything exists.

If it can be said that a wash cloth is not dry, then by default it must be in some state of wetness (sopping wet, damp, moist...). Who would argue with this? It is SOOO simple and logical.

If it can be said that a baseball is not at rest, then by default the ball is in some kind of motion (flying through the air or sitting on the back seat of a moving car). Right?

If a state of absolute ever existed (nothing plus nothing equals nothing), then that state would still exist, and it would exist forever. Since everything is made of SOMETHING (atoms, quantum particles...), then we can make what should be the most obvious statement of all:
If a state of absolute nothing cannot, and does not exist, then by default there must be SOMETHING. All the little somethings exist simply because a state of absolute nothing does not exist.

yea,,, dont like that answer at all,,,,,, its easy said then proven,.,.,.,.,.,. and saying the fact that everything exists does not prove that,,,, absolute nothing doesnt exist or has never existed............

more of the problem i have is,,,, how can there be a forever,,,,,, how can there be an unstarted........ you say the something always existed,,,,,,,,,, say the something early on in the existence of everything was aware,,, would it have just come into awareness? or would it have always been aware? if it was always aware,, it is god....... if god always existed and was always aware and something,,,,, then how can we say there isnt a higher more bizaree cause for this eternal something/ ever aware god,, that god cannot even know or fathom?

Originally posted by jiggerj
If a state of absolute nothing cannot, and does not exist, then by default there must be SOMETHING. All the little somethings exist simply because a state of absolute nothing does not exist.

this is also kind of smart but not true enough

believing that things could b created only to avoid nothing existence fact is sorry stupid, but here where i retract the word sorry to introduce evil since stupidity do not exist then it is a lie

u refuse to admit what could mean an awareness in nothing space, it is much more things then here and now while the awareness is by itself existing multiplicities while also being of else multiplicities
existence as u see it on the contrary from that sense mean to limit its fact to nothing even preferably in order to compensate its unbearable infinite growth, that is kind of better guess

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Embrace the fact that 'human thought' is a byproduct of the engine called the brain.

Not at all true.

Interesting how the people who know the least are the first to tell everyone what is truth.

Then enlighten us on how thought can manifest itself. We'd really love to know.

How does a mirage manifest itself? It doesn't. It's an illusion. And so is thought.

Thoughts are not an illusion, they are thoughts. If you give them power they grow and can become alive. We are God's thought. Our concepts may be wrong. In fact all concepts become wrong over time as their energy dissipates and new realities / higher thoughts reveal a bigger picture.