A word on Enlightenment

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by rwfresh

 

I will agree with you that Reality is the ONLY thing with substance. I am under no delusion that i control Reality, communicate it, recognize it, create it etc.

Then how do you claim It is the only thing with substance, or exists at all? I've enjoyed your posts so far, made a lot of sense, but this question continuously arises. If you are "reality" then how do you know, or claim, there is Reality? Is it just a 'all that could be left after reduction' kind of thing? The Buddha spoke of similar things and this question always arose when reading it. How do you know there is the unspeakable, unknowable, unrecognizable, if you cannot recognize or experience it?

Peace

It's a belief without substance that i hold. I don't know anything. I know nothing. And nothing is an illusion. So i don't know nothin'

There is no substance to my beliefs. If you understood what i was talking about even better than i did you would be no closer to the Truth.

Buddha came to believe the illusion was an illusion. That is the sum total of it. He had nothing to offer for those seeking actual Truth. At least i have yet to experience actual Truth/Reality through him.. Could be a lack in me? Or it could be that what he concluded was "true".

Ahhh... yes. If there is such a thing called profound wisdom, it is this.

Again, thanks!

Wow this is really encouraging. I'm thinking maybe we should fire up our own religion. Let's review:

1. Everything is illusion
2. Everyone is delusional
3. No one actually knows anything actual
4. No one can communicate anything Real or True
5. There is no hope or possibility of anyone ever experiencing Reality/Truth
6. Reality is Truth and the only thing Real
7. All of the above is entirely delusional
8. All of the above including this is entirely delusional

I finally have it all figured out.. i am ready start the hard sell. Are you in? It's going to be huge. Finally everyone will be free!! We have fixed Reality once and for all.

hahahaha

reply to post by BlueMule

She gave many classes of students ESP tests, guessing at concealed cards, but, before giving or scoring the tests, she had students fill out questionnaires that asked, among other things, whether they believed in ESP.

When she analyzed the results separately for the believers – the "sheep" – and the non-believers – the "goats" – she found a small, but significant difference.

Oh please, the **small** difference in this game of chance is that the non-believers didn't try. Let me put it this way: In a game,I tell you and a friend that I have a number in mind, and that number is between 1 and 1000. The one that comes closest to the number wins. You (being the believer in such nonsense) pick 232.

Your non-believing friend picks the number 1 every time because he doesn't care.

Which one do you think would appear to have psychic abilities?

I think some the Advaita Masters said it best, when asked what is the answer at the end.

They said the total and complete answer is:

The Absolute State, Not the Absolute State, both of these, and none of these, all at the same time.
_______________
Just a personal opinion though. I gotta say, that there is definitely something there. It's fundamentally changed me at the core of who I am. This stuff is undoubtedly extremely and preciously super real to me and has been like a hidden Gem, that has been within all along.

I think science and the quantum physicists well eventually prove this to be so

Originally posted by Theophorus
This goes out to all you New agers.To be enlightened is to be aware. To have an awareness of something, one must have KNOWLEDGE of the existence of that something. In this case that something being enlightenment or awareness which in turn can only be boiled down to knowledge itself.Now, People are finite beings meaning we have limited boundaries. The knowledge we gain is also finite. Point being made is that in our finite state enlightenment is un-obtainable.Anyone looking into there finite self to find infinite knowledge is just kidding themself.

lol you have no idea....
let me give u a few names: wei wu wei, ramana maharshi, U.G Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta and so on and so on...

read their words, understand and come back

reply to post by kauskau

lol you have no idea.... let me give u a few names: wei wu wei, ramana maharshi, U.G Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta and so on and so on... read their words, understand and come back

Amen my friend. I should have said what you just said here, a few pages ago. So simple.

Funny things is, I went and read those authors, and never came back!!!!

reply to post by kauskau


You're right he has no idea, but I am of the opinion that people who have no idea are exactly where they are supposed to be. If and when they are ready they will answer the call. Maybe in this life maybe the next. Sooner or later, they will.

That's why I am bothering with the clueless less and less. Well, that and the vibe of their minds is like a stanch to my inner nose.

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by rwfresh

 

I will agree with you that Reality is the ONLY thing with substance. I am under no delusion that i control Reality, communicate it, recognize it, create it etc.

Then how do you claim It is the only thing with substance, or exists at all? I've enjoyed your posts so far, made a lot of sense, but this question continuously arises. If you are "reality" then how do you know, or claim, there is Reality? Is it just a 'all that could be left after reduction' kind of thing? The Buddha spoke of similar things and this question always arose when reading it. How do you know there is the unspeakable, unknowable, unrecognizable, if you cannot recognize or experience it?

Peace

It's a belief without substance that i hold. I don't know anything. I know nothing. And nothing is an illusion. So i don't know nothin'

There is no substance to my beliefs. If you understood what i was talking about even better than i did you would be no closer to the Truth.

Buddha came to believe the illusion was an illusion. That is the sum total of it. He had nothing to offer for those seeking actual Truth. At least i have yet to experience actual Truth/Reality through him.. Could be a lack in me? Or it could be that what he concluded was "true".

Ahhh... yes. If there is such a thing called profound wisdom, it is this.

Again, thanks!

Wow this is really encouraging. I'm thinking maybe we should fire up our own religion. Let's review:

1. Everything is illusion
2. Everyone is delusional
3. No one actually knows anything actual
4. No one can communicate anything Real or True
5. There is no hope or possibility of anyone ever experiencing Reality/Truth
6. Reality is Truth and the only thing Real
7. All of the above is entirely delusional
8. All of the above including this is entirely delusional

I finally have it all figured out.. i am ready start the hard sell. Are you in? It's going to be huge. Finally everyone will be free!! We have fixed Reality once and for all.

hahahaha

Ok so you become the leader of the world,,,, and the population of the world must heed your word and follow your lead,,,,, do we turn around and start walking back to monkyism?

ok you get the whole world to be peaceful and patient and nice to each other,,, everything simple,,, everyone fed,,, everyone has time for meditation and is always relaxed..... how many hundreds or thousands of years does this go on,, until a generation,, or members have urges to lift their heads up,, and desiree to figure out where and what exactly this world is made of,, and what can be done with it?

are you completely against scientific and technological progression?
you think the highest and best thing a human can do for the majority of its life is nothing?


Do you have no appreciation or admiration for mans accomplishments?

have you ever used a car? how long/do you think you can create a car by your self from scratch? ( including mining the metals and creating the battery and engine etc)

what about electricity or a computer? I know we dont need these things,,,
but their pretty.... pretty ..... pretty...cool

reply to post by ImaFungi

are you completely against scientific and technological progression? you think the highest and best thing a human can do for the majority of its life is nothing?

i think your missing the point. Mass enlightenment would bring in a Global Utopia. Everyone directly experiencing being intimately connected to everyone else would instantly rid the world of wars, corruption, greed, etc.

We have science and technology currently in our lives and has it solved the wars, the corruption, the greed, the diseases, gangs, violence, etc? Nope

It's not necessarily doing "Nothing" for the rest of One's life. There is much service to humanity that comes with all of this. Help, Loving, being there for others.

reply to post by dominicus


totally,,,, and there have been sections of humans and animals throughout earths history who have lived cooperative peaceful lives,,,,, monks,,,, the amish...,.,..

it would be a great and wonderful and beautiful thing......

but if that is so great and beautiful,,,,, what made man begin progressing?

and do you not think knowledge and technology can be used in a beautiful,, and peaceful way,, also in balance with nature?

also im not missing the point,,,, im never missing the point,,,,,, i understand everything i read,,,,, unless the writer is loose with defining their terms i have trouble picturing exactly what they mean to relay....

i just wanted to hear his answer to that question,,,, its why i asked it,,,,,,,, and its what his religion insinuates,,, valuing nothing....

Originally posted by rwfresh

Wow this is really encouraging. I'm thinking maybe we should fire up our own religion. Let's review:

1. Everything is illusion
2. Everyone is delusional
3. No one actually knows anything actual
4. No one can communicate anything Real or True
5. There is no hope or possibility of anyone ever experiencing Reality/Truth
6. Reality is Truth and the only thing Real
7. All of the above is entirely delusional
8. All of the above including this is entirely delusional

I finally have it all figured out.. i am ready start the hard sell. Are you in? It's going to be huge. Finally everyone will be free!! We have fixed Reality once and for all.

hahahaha

LOL! Yes, and our church will be the mental hospital. On one side of the congregation people will be hysterically laughing. On the other side of the congregation people will be helplessly sobbing.

On a more serious note, I think this is why the Buddha laid out the Noble Eightfold Path and all his other teachings, just so people wouldn't go insane when they realized all is Maya. It is like preparing the mind for its complete refutation.

reply to post by ImaFungi

and do you not think knowledge and technology can be used in a beautiful,, and peaceful way,, also in balance with nature?

well yes of course. It's the ego that is the cause of the worlds ills. Some of the greatest philosophers in the world have also made that statement.

the route were on now isnt a pretty one. The alternatives are much better and I think we're all headed towards mass enlightenment anyway. We came from the Absolute, and will eventually return to the Absolute. And for a few folks, they see and experience that we have never left the absolute.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by rwfresh

 

Ok so you become the leader of the world,,,, and the population of the world must heed your word and follow your lead,,,,, do we turn around and start walking back to monkyism?

ok you get the whole world to be peaceful and patient and nice to each other,,, everything simple,,, everyone fed,,, everyone has time for meditation and is always relaxed..... how many hundreds or thousands of years does this go on,, until a generation,, or members have urges to lift their heads up,, and desiree to figure out where and what exactly this world is made of,, and what can be done with it?

are you completely against scientific and technological progression?
you think the highest and best thing a human can do for the majority of its life is nothing?


Do you have no appreciation or admiration for mans accomplishments?

have you ever used a car? how long/do you think you can create a car by your self from scratch? ( including mining the metals and creating the battery and engine etc)

what about electricity or a computer? I know we dont need these things,,,
but their pretty.... pretty ..... pretty...cool

edit on 21-6-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

First off i would never want to be the ruler of mankind. I would take Truth and Reality over anything in this illusion. ANYTHING. The post was (what i thought) a well timed joke which further pointed to the paradox in a humorous way.

I am not against science. My delusional beliefs offer no respite to the ills and drama of the world. Science is an expression of the illusory nature we find ourselves in. I really can't pretend that humans are solely responsible, by the will of their own, for the bad and good which comes from "progress". Lack of honesty and love is the cause of suffering i see in self and out in the world. Not science.

Sure I'll take an ipad and a line of blow over laying in a ditch suffering mental illness or starvation. But i would choose Truth and Reality over anything this illusion has to offer. But it's hard.. because i am a total failure at being a "good" human compared to Gandhi. But i try.

If technology promotes or expresses love and honesty than i am all for it. It's really that simple. For me..

With respect to a Utopia.. A real Utopia would be one were there is no lack. Period. All progress and wantonness is eternally fulfilled. Where there isn't really a ceasing of progress, but rather a fully expressed progress without lack. Where people participate and become a progress that is entirely healthy, sustainable, inclusive and fulfilling forever.

There is no consequence to "achieving" or not achieving any of this except the obvious. Our illusory world is either a place of suffering or a place of fulfillment. If this world becomes a literal hell, more so than it may already be for some but on a larger scale, Love will still exist. If this world disappears, Reality and Truth still exist. If time itself ceases.. What is left is the only thing that ever truly was.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by rwfresh

Wow this is really encouraging. I'm thinking maybe we should fire up our own religion. Let's review:

1. Everything is illusion
2. Everyone is delusional
3. No one actually knows anything actual
4. No one can communicate anything Real or True
5. There is no hope or possibility of anyone ever experiencing Reality/Truth
6. Reality is Truth and the only thing Real
7. All of the above is entirely delusional
8. All of the above including this is entirely delusional

I finally have it all figured out.. i am ready start the hard sell. Are you in? It's going to be huge. Finally everyone will be free!! We have fixed Reality once and for all.

hahahaha

LOL! Yes, and our church will be the mental hospital. On one side of the congregation people will be hysterically laughing. On the other side of the congregation people will be helplessly sobbing.

On a more serious note, I think this is why the Buddha laid out the Noble Eightfold Path and all his other teachings, just so people wouldn't go insane when they realized all is Maya. It is like preparing the mind for its complete refutation.

hahaha sounds good to me. What a second.. i think this already exists. dang.

Yeah I'm sure once Buddha discovered his own self illusion persisted in Maya he came up with the middle path. His goal was always the relief of suffering. And all his teachings regarding love and honesty are applicable within the illusory world. He would also have to have acknowledged his own liberation would never be completed so long as any other persisted in delusion. It's no mystery to me that we are still talking about him today.. His compassion and love are the novel characteristics he brought into this world. Those things are as "real" as it gets here in the land of delusion.

Originally posted by jiggerjI am also confident that once we discover how life came to be, the answer will be perfectly logical, with no magic involved.

I don't believe anyone ever truly will discover that, it's impossible. Not that I wouldn't want that. But if we are living in an infinity or infinite existence then there is no beginning and no end meaning evolution isn't possible. Sure on this planet it is a fact and likely on other planets but then where did the stuff come from which we and everything living we know evolved from? Which is basically the same kind of question who created (the) God(s) or the Creator?

Existence didn't begin anywhere so it must have existed for all of eternity, possibly in different states. It could be the stuff which became 'us' was once completely different and comes together and desintegrates again and this motion goes on forever. It is however unlikely those states are to be measured like science would like to from either of those states. Meaning while existence is in this state we are now in, it is not in the other state and thus it cannot be truly measured or ever proven, except by theory perhaps. There are no traces of it because all those traces would be transformed into something else, unrecognizable to the observer.

Or if those 2 states could exist together, no measuring equipment could go to that other state when it desintegrates because it would again cease to exist and become something else, useless to whatever scientist created it to measure something to prove any theories.

And who knows what might happen if scientists would ever conduct an experiment to recreate the universe just to see if a theory is true. It might start a chain reaction which affects everything and after which the entire existence ceases to be.

amazing post, this is what ive been trying to tell everybody

Here it goes again...the supposedly "enlightened" proceed to tell others that they are not enlightened simply by reading a few sentences about their supposedly unenlightened perspective, laugh at and ridicule the supposedly unenlightened, then continue to use obscure terms like "oneness" and "void mind" as if their reading of the teachings of others who have claimed to be enlightened have drawn the path toward their own enlightenment.

So much for abandoning the ego...

Perspective.

Perspective.

Perspective.

So much for abandoning the ego...

Only in "death."

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

So much for abandoning the ego...

Only in "death."

People who have actually undergone ego-death and rebirth read what you are saying here and know that you don't know what you're talking about.

But that's ok. It's as it should be.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

So much for abandoning the ego...

Only in "death."

People who have actually undergone ego-death and rebirth read what you are saying here and know that you don't know what you're talking about.

But that's ok. It's as it should be.

Reading your words and your previous laughter at the supposedly unenlightened, and you attempting to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about tells me your ego is still quite alive intact. Your words are expression of ego. If you had abandoned it, you would not be capable of such statements.

And then you state "it's as it should be" as if covering your obvious tracks, as if your multiple insults in this thread were not sign enough.

Honestly, I feel it more likely that you don't know what I am talking about, but of course I have no way of portraying such an assumption as fact. It is merely a feeling, and is not meant to be insulting. It is only an observation from my perspective.

Perspective.

Take care.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
But if we are living in an infinity or infinite existence then there is no beginning and no end

I agree. This realm of the 'Something' has always existed simply because a state of absolute nothing could never exist.

Originally posted by OrchusGhule

Reading your words and your previous laughter at the supposedly unenlightened

I laugh at a lot of things. Perhaps you could refresh my memory and show me where I laughed at the unenlightened? Just for future reference.

and you attempting to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about tells me your ego is still quite alive intact.

Depends on what you mean by ego. Had you been reading my posts closely, you would have noted my use of the word 'rebirth'.

The ego-self that dies and is reborn is not the "ego" that most people would associate with 'egotistical arrogance' and cockyness and pride and so forth, fyi.

So if you percieve arrogance in me and try to trump me with it you only reveal your ignorance.

And then you state "it's as it should be" as if covering your obvious tracks, as if your multiple insults in this thread were not sign enough.

Maybe you're overly sensitive.

The unenlightened people are great. I love them. They don't need to be forced into enlightenment, they don't need to be converted to a particular way of thinking. They are fine just the way they are. They are the way God wants them to be, needs them to be. I don't feel the need to expend much energy trying to enlighten them. Maybe a little.

I also don't feel the need to expend much energy trying to tip-toe around their feelings so as to not offend the overly-sensitive ego-self consumed mind of the blind and deaf. Well, Maybe a little. Usually to the degree that the unenlightened expend toward the enlightened. Which isn't much.

If you or anyone else has a problem with that, I really don't care.

Take care.