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Why all the community anamocity against abductee stories?

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posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by MerkabaMeditation
 


It's odd isn't it..the animosity. I would think if they were skeptics that they would intelligently try to debunk it all, but no, they project animosity. I'm wondering if these responses aren't angry, scared responses because they are abductees as well. The only difference is that they are repressing the memories for good reason. Just a thought.
edit on 21-6-2012 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Honestly you can share but until those people are ready to open their minds to possibility it will remain outside of their accepted reality frame. I have seen ufos several times now and always am delighted when I do. They are an accepted part of my reality outlook. Those who choose to see the earth is flat well I say live and let live.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by Shirak
 


I saw a UFO a few weekends back, my husband pointed it out in the sky. It was somewhat cylindrical but curved in the middle, like a cylindrical hour glass, and it was just hovering there in the sky for all to see, for all that bother to look around them. Odd sight, also because I am accustomed to seeing only the saucer shaped craft.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by phroziac

Originally posted by Jefferton
Because alien abductions are not real, and those who believe they are abductees have mental problems and should seek help.


You are whqts wrong with the world. Why do you even come to such a thread to spout off #ing bull#?


He has a right to his or her opinion, to him/her the idea is crazy, I can understand that as well.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 


It's just not proven to you, why call it crazy? We abductees don't understand this response.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Not a psychologist, and hopefully some members with experience in that area offered some insight. I have not read the opinions offered in this thread, because I didn't want my own to be influenced.
My opinion is that there is animosity in most things paranormal. There are those that are terrified in the implication that strange being from another planet can come down to our planet, abduct us, and perform painful experiments on us. I think that a lot of people who show the animosity have probably had some type of paranormal experience that scarred them so badly that they were driven into a state of denial. They think that the more they deny the existence of such a thing the further it will be driver from their memory. Then you have those that have never experienced a paranormal event, and cannot relate. Animosity could be the result of a debate they might have had with another that left hurt feeling. I don't think there is a simple answer. There are some that are just angry people, and choose ATS and like sites to release some of their bitterness towards other without fear of direct confrontation.
Anyway I hope you found the answer you were searching for from those members that replied to this thread out of a genuineness to give you that answer.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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I just thought I will put my two cents in OP.

So many people come out of the wood work, whether they be attention seekers or disinfo and hurt true abductees cause. Then you have the media equation, news mocks abductees, movies portray abductees as crazy people. Then there is the shame factor, people think its something you never discuss, you are supposed to sit and hold these experiences in, and if you mention it, its fake.

I think its unfortunate people do this to others, just remember there are people who are open, don't be afraid to share if you need to. What some may take as nonsense, may be very real to you, and no amount of riddicule will take that experience away.

With that said, people are just being skeptical, which is good, don't worry about making them believe you.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by MerkabaMeditation
 


Take yourself for example, you think by casually mentioning your an Abductee that it will add Credence to your claim, it doesn't.

Are you aware that here on ATS , we have at least 2 real Alien Beings joining on a weekly basis?

I'm talking real Out Of This World Aliens, so you being just an Abductee..... back of the Bus m8.


hahaha that last part made me lol hard.

it's like to capture anyone's attention your story has to be even more farfetched than the previous one posted 2 hours ago on ATS. New posters or hoaxers always trying to up the ante from the previous guy.

In all honesty though I really would like to read anything you are prepared to give us on your personal experiences. You come accross very nonchalant when you say you've been abducted.. I would imagine being abducted would be horrific seeing as the term abduction implies against your will. If you chose to go that would make you a contactee. Choosing to go up on board would be an amazing opportunity, you just gotta wonder whether they're telling you the full story! On the other hand - if they wanted you I don't think they'd have to trick you to getting on board... they would just take you no questions asked.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by phroziac

Originally posted by Jefferton
Because alien abductions are not real, and those who believe they are abductees have mental problems and should seek help.


You are whqts wrong with the world. Why do you even come to such a thread to spout off #ing bull#?


He has a right to his or her opinion, to him/her the idea is crazy, I can understand that as well.


An opinion should be worded better and more politely than that, this is more of an accusation. Presenting their view as actual fact when it is in fact an opinion.

More to the point, this opinion provides no real substance toward the subject matter, and I think that is what phroziac is getting annoyed about. It is just an attack on self proclaimed abductee's.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by VeniVidi
Not a psychologist, and hopefully some members with experience in that area offered some insight. I have not read the opinions offered in this thread, because I didn't want my own to be influenced.
My opinion is that there is animosity in most things paranormal. There are those that are terrified in the implication that strange being from another planet can come down to our planet, abduct us, and perform painful experiments on us. I think that a lot of people who show the animosity have probably had some type of paranormal experience that scarred them so badly that they were driven into a state of denial. They think that the more they deny the existence of such a thing the further it will be driver from their memory. Then you have those that have never experienced a paranormal event, and cannot relate. Animosity could be the result of a debate they might have had with another that left hurt feeling. I don't think there is a simple answer. There are some that are just angry people, and choose ATS and like sites to release some of their bitterness towards other without fear of direct confrontation.
Anyway I hope you found the answer you were searching for from those members that replied to this thread out of a genuineness to give you that answer.
I have a degree in Psychology...and I was married to a psychologist for a while....so that makes me qualified...well at least more than Dr. Phil...
So I think it has more to do with big claims and no evidence. Seems to be a solid case as a psychological phenomenon since there is no evidence otherwise. sleep paralysis seems to fit some not all. If I thought I was being abducted I would wire my house with some heavy duty security surveillance like things.

abduct me once, shame on ....shame on you. abduct me ....You can't get fooled again.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by IMSAM
There is not a single abduction database on the internet....


That's actually not true. For the past many months we've been doing mass data collection of high strangeness accounts which will come to term in October 2012. After this round of accounts are correlated, and handled by our statistician, it will be evaluated and I'm sure several papers will be written about what each of us on the CORE team got from the data collected.

Then we will move on to Phase 2 of the CORE data collection, and continue on based upon results from Phase 1.

You can check it out, fill it out, or read more here:
Project Core

~Jeff
Sooo....I have a question. I was all set to fill out the questionnaire but I couldnt answer the second question since I never had a paranormal experience. So wouldn't that make this biased?

Bias often occurs when the survey sample does not accurately represent the population. The bias that results from an unrepresentative sample is called selection bias.

stattrek.com...

Add:
I reread the intro...so I think I understand it better but still would like to discuss the concept.


edit on 21-6-2012 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
Sooo....I have a question. I was all set to fill out the questionnaire but I couldnt answer the second question since I never had a paranormal experience. So wouldn't that make this biased?


I'm well aware what bias is, thanks. However at the very start of the form there is a section to label your account "fact" or "fiction". Don't have a real experience? Great. Make one up. Just make sure you hold to the honesty part - lying isn't getting anyone anywhere. If it's fictional say so. But, write your account as you *think* it would happen. We're not interested in a Stephen King novel. We want what you think it would truly be.

However, let's speak to your bias here: The survey questions are predominantly for those who have had or are having perceived anomalous events. If you have none - then maybe you could explain why you went to fill anything out to start with? If you intended to give a fictional account, that's fine - then why are you asking the question here?

As to your other post: sleep paralysis hardly explains anything about this experience. Shared experiences by two or more people, are certainly not a result of psychological issues, nor sleep paralysis. We don't know what those and singular events represent. "Evidence" as in physical forensic data has for the last 60+ years of modern UFOlogy has eluded the field. This does not immediately mean there is not an external "force" of some kind interacting with mankind. Such events have been reported farther back than antiquity, and certainly before mankind developed flight (see Jacques Vallee/Chris Aubeck's "Wonders in the Sky"). When modern day events and those from antiquity are examined, there are striking similarities, and appear to give the notion that something, or someone is evolving thought processes and possibly belief systems.

There is however, not enough data. And, with the advent of very poor tools such as regression hypnosis, in very poor hands (UFO researchers), we have a lot of garbage to clear away if we are to get to better questions.

Forget searching for answers - no question you'd be asking is productive. None. We have to examine what the experience is doing, not how many windows the craft had or what "race" of beings came to anyone.

Look at what surrounds the event, not just the event itself. You can start with anti-structure. Watch what that does with any theory one might have. Then move on to liminal states. Just be advised to be careful in study of those two very important issues in regard to this phenomena. More often than not, you'll get more than you bargained for.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
I hope it will be productive and provide some real data. Is there a thread advising people of the survey and asking people to cooperate?


I hope so too. But for now it's an unknown as to whether there will be any consistencies or outright connections.

There is no thread here on ATS to my knowledge, and I believe they have a policy of not linking whole threads to other sites. I have publicized it on other radio shows besides my own, and I was on ATS Live some time ago to discuss it.

~Jeff



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:50 AM
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Thanks for your response...

Originally posted by jritzmann
However, let's speak to your bias here: The survey questions are predominantly for those who have had or are having perceived anomalous events. If you have none - then maybe you could explain why you went to fill anything out to start with? If you intended to give a fictional account, that's fine - then why are you asking the question here?

That's my point. The whole survey is geared towards folks who have had a "paranormal" experience or believe they have had one. A true survey should be a sample of the whole population. Perhaps you are missing a whole section of the population...those who don't believe they have had such an experience but actually have. Instead you are getting a sample of those who have had or think they have had an experience. As for my intention, I was curious about this "study" so I clicked a link and saw a questionnare. I wanted to do my part as a member of the population but felt excluded.



As to your other post: sleep paralysis hardly explains anything about this experience. Shared experiences by two or more people, are certainly not a result of psychological issues, nor sleep paralysis.

I think we somewhat agree since I said "some not all" but if you inferred my disbelief, you are correct. I have sleep paralysis sometimes and it is a very profound experience to say the least and does seem to fit some scenerios but not all.


You can start with anti-structure.

please explain "anti-structure"



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
That's my point. The whole survey is geared towards folks who have had a "paranormal" experience or believe they have had one. A true survey should be a sample of the whole population. Perhaps you are missing a whole section of the population...those who don't believe they have had such an experience but actually have. Instead you are getting a sample of those who have had or think they have had an experience. As for my intention, I was curious about this "study" so I clicked a link and saw a questionnare. I wanted to do my part as a member of the population but felt excluded.


It's a true survey of paranormal accounts. It's specifically targeted.

And ask what of the "whole population"? You're talking about a survey with no parameters of focus. It's for those who have had or think they have had paranormal encounters of some sort - of every sort. I'd say that's pretty wide as it is. For people who don't think anything is going on, or who have never had an experience, there is no parameter for a questionnaire about what they don't know or don't think.

Perhaps you are missing a whole section of the population...those who don't believe they have had such an experience but actually have.

This is not geared towards "finding" the paranormal in people who don't think they've had anything...but have? I mean that's a fairly absurd notion - and speaks to the larger issue of co-creation of scenarios by abduction researchers (even though this survey is not confined to that experience alone.)

Not knowing the full parameters (and no one does) of how paranormal experiences work, you can't create a survey on a negative to be put to the entire population. So what you're asking for is assuming a lot, and would be baseless upon "finding" unaware experiencers from a preconceived notion that one knows how this works enough to base a mass survey - to find it in people who don't think they've had such a experience?

In short, the survey isn't for you - unless you want to contribute to the base of people with no experience who *think* they know what it's really like, and then write a fictional account by selecting that button.

We're interested in people who have had, or think they have had the one off sighting of paranormal phenomena, or the lifetime of high strangeness. Not those who have not - as there's nothing to ask those people - the questions don't apply to them. As you might note, there's questions there that one won't see on any other "paranormal" survey. This is because we have 2 PhD's on the team who deal specifically with epidemiology, embryology, pathophysiology, biochemistry and microbiology.

The fictional aspect parameter is far than broad enough to encompass those who've had no experience but want to contribute as to what their perception of a paranormal encounter would be. Will it be culturally contaminated? Media contaminated? Who knows. Let's find out.

Any way you cut it there has never been a survey such as this in the field, and I feel it's far broad enough to encompass much in the reported phenomenon.


please explain "anti-structure"


I'm sorry, but this is where you do some digging on your own. It's a complex definition, far and away too complex for a message board post. In short, anything that throws you majorly out of routine. Tandem with liminal states.

An example?
You buy a house. Everything is fine. You renovate. You start seeing what you can only describe as in-your-face ghost experiences. Many would say "You've upset the ghosts" - which assumes you know what upsets ghosts (an absurd notion in that we don't know what ghosts even represent, much less what upsets them).

What you find is the out of routine, coupled with the liminal state that comes with an out of routine? Results in many people recounting paranormal events across the board.

There's also connections with taboo behavior, marginality, and other states.

So, you're typing on the largest database in human history - go look them up and learn more. I highly recommend "The Trickster and the Paranormal", even though I don't subscribe to all of it, it's still a groundbreaking book in regard to what surrounds perceived paranormal experiences and events.

Jeff



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Jeff, Minor correction to your statement from earlier, that, "For people who don't think anything is going on, or who have never had an experience, there is no parameter for a questionnaire about what they don't know or don't think," that statement is not entirely correct. About 18 years ago you may recall that we conducted a small-scale survey called the "Amanesis Protocol" study...which was essentially a survey asking folks about things that they could not remember. Needless to say, it died on the vine, for obvious reasons. Very difficult to get people to respond, and we never got enough responses to create any kind of usable data set.

Still a noble effort anyway, which may have addressed the objection proffered here. There will undoubtedly be some skewing of the data from Project Core, but I believe that the purpose of the survey is not to determine what percentage of the population is involved in high strangeness episodes; rather, imo the purpose is to try to see if there is any correlating data that has thus far been unpublished, and therefore not a part of any cultural bias, which may shed common light on these phenomena. We've seen our share of the cultural hysteria which would account for many of the "classic" abduction symptoms. Perhaps Core will yield some data that will move us forward into more meaningful questions that would allow us to begin to get a slight glimmer of hope of understanding the complexity of these events.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by leetown1
 


Lee-Correct, it's not a headcount, but a correlation or consistency inquiry/study.

As far as that other protocol gig - yup, but part of the reason it died in addition to reach, was the lack of solidity of concept. It seemed good at the time, but I think very few could see what we were trying to get - I also think we were diving in mid-way rather that working towards that dataset X amount of steps back. CORE of course is a lot more public and more focused.



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Thanks. I do think I understand better.



And ask what of the "whole population"? You're talking about a survey with no parameters of focus. It's for those who have had or think they have had paranormal encounters of some sort - of every sort.


A question that would make me feel included could be something like: "describe an account that you think could have been "paranormal" but was explainable by normal means." or something like that. so I could answer as an example: "I thought I was abducted by aliens but I attribute this to my occasional sleep paralysis, not aliens"

So I think my issue is that this is only for folks who subscribe to the "paranormal" explaination of things given by the folks who subscribe to the "paranormal" explaination of things.
edit on 23-6-2012 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by Kang69
People don't take UFO abductees stories seriously well.. get ready for it. because its a personal story... with not one piece of evidence! I'm convinced that UFO abductees had a bad time with '___' or some bad shrooms. Either way most of them are trolls.

Aliens made us through DNA splicing though thousands of years ago. Check.
Human DNA has not changed in thousands of years. Check.
The answer I hear to most abducting reasons is they are studying us for our DNA.

These guys most be patient and persistent bastards to be abducting a species for thousands of years and keep waiting for our DNA to change. And all these nighttime UFO videos are great. UFO's with beacons telling the world there their. Ever seen a stealthfigher before? It does not tell the world or it's enemies its there, thats the point.

It's a dangerous belief this, more distraction from the small group of people that rule this world. And their not aliens. Bilderberg. Secret society's are the real watchmen here.

Greatest part. The history channel hosts ancient aliens. Of all channels.


ok....since when did abductees have a "bad experience with '___' or shrooms"??? can you explain the Betty and Barney Hill case??? Travis Walton???? pretty good chance you can't....nobody can.....anyone that says they can prove those cases are bogus, or say they never happened...are full of #.....



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by moonweed
 


Yes, espesially the Travis case is un-debunkable. I was also shocked to hear that professional sceptics offered some of them $10,000 USD to say it was a hoax, shameless... Travis is also a ATS member.



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