Something is wrong with religious thinking

Originally posted by isyeye
reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

 

If you want to get technical, "I" is NOT eternal. It's a letter of a man-made alphabet that hasn't always existed, and may someday be obsolete. God may be eternal, but words, letters, and their meanings are subject to change.

Before their was I, I beat my chest and said Uuughh.

Still, it was I.

Originally posted by isyeye
The sign was not erected by "I", but by Mr. Newell because of his Mother, and trying to get people back into the church.

edit on 20-6-2012 by isyeye because: (no reason given)

Actually, he confessed to his purpose...

Mr. NEWELL: I'm just trying to wake up the people.

I'm

Short for...

I AM.

reply to post by isyeye


It is a sad state of affairs as it concerns religions, whether it be christian or islam etc.

Consequentialism is a dangerous tool, whether it be religious or governmental etc.

reply to post by DeathbecomesLife


Once again, if we're going to get wrapped up in the wording:

SIMON: Yeah. What made you put up that sign?

Mr. NEWELL: Well, my mother, she told me, `On Sunday, if you don't go to church, the old devil's going to get you.' It always stuck in my mind.

So "You" put up the sign...and Mr. Newell aknowledges that HE did it because of his mother.

"I AM" is trying to wake up people, not physically build signs....and if you state that Mr Newell is "I", then "You"="I" and refer to previous posts.

Originally posted by isyeye
reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

 

Once again, if we're going to get wrapped up in the wording:

SIMON: Yeah. What made you put up that sign?

Mr. NEWELL: Well, my mother, she told me, `On Sunday, if you don't go to church, the old devil's going to get you.' It always stuck in my mind.

So "You" put up the sign...and Mr. Newell aknowledges that HE did it because of his mother.

"I AM" is trying to wake up people, not physically build signs....and if you state that Mr Newell is "I", the "You"="I" and refer to previous posts.

edit on 20-6-2012 by isyeye because: (no reason given)

You is not I. You is a scape goat.

If you do not have an I, then you do not have an I.

If you cannot say I, then I does not want you to speak for I.

I am finished.

reply to post by isyeye

I completely agree with you about the freedom of speech, and yes, those that erected the sign have full right to do so, but my opinion is more based on the fact that after thousands of years of evolution, we as humans just still can't seem to grasp that there are better ways to send a message than to use fear to get it across.

But that message actually means something to Christians. Have you heard the term "God fearing people"? Many of us (religious and non-religious) believe in the real prospect that we're living in the end times. For Christians that means we don't have much time to 'make things right' with our maker. Is it a fear-based message? You bet! But it's rooted in Christian reality. 

Look at it like this - If you were dying of a terminal illness would you rather be given that fearful message by your Dr. so you could make the most of your time or be fed BS?

reply to post by seabag


Ok....But if you are a faithful Christian, what would you have to fear from endtimes? It seems that alot of Christians can't wait. The sign isn't for those Christians, it's to get other people back into the seats, or new people into them...using fear. I could never be a "God fearing Christian". If I choose to become a Christian, it would be a "God LOVING Christian. Why would I want to be a part of something I fear? That's like being married so someone that abuses you, and WANTING to stay there to continue the abuse. It makes no sense to me.

And if a doctor told me about a terminal illness, it's not fear that would drive me, it's time. My father passed away recently, and not once was he afraid. His only concern was that he didn't have the time to do the things he wanted, and to see what he would like to have.

reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

I am finished.

I thought that "I was eternal"?

...but thanks for "YOUR" time, and comments. I do enjoy a good debate, and you've made it a challenge.

"Something is wrong with Religious thinking"

You automatically inserted your bias and being the thread title it is a textual sign that tells people what you are all about... happens for a reason, the reason being that you are so vehemently opposed to Religion that you are being judgmental about a roadside billboard that is not only ambiguous as to which religion or church was being promoted, but that it didn't stroke your ego thus reenforcing your disbelief.

Isn't it strange how children's shows can put forth characters that imply eating too many cookies will make you a monster for example and yet a sign on the side of a road gets you more riled up?

Or lets look at the more mature shows... haven't you noticed that the majority of our "entertainment" is filled with violence vulgarity and immorality? But that is ok by society because it is a possible reality for some which is what is the selling point... and yet people take offense at a billboard that puts forth a message by contrasting the two sides? I think it was brief and to the point. How else could you promote an idea in so few words other than by showing extremes?

I am not big on organized religions either but the message on the sign was to develop Faith by exposing yourself to His word which you aren't going to get anywhere other than a church.

And yet here again, indoctrinating children to gay agenda's, occultism , bloodshed etc. is acceptable and promoting Faith isn't.

You might think I am stretching it here but open your eyes and see the signs rather than gawk (or be entertained) at/by them.

Evil has always been in control of man since the day man fell from Grace because men will follow willingly. It is the choice of the individual as to whose path you follow and if a road-sign serves as a reminder whether it is reflecting complete opposites to be brief or sanitized and lengthy to put forth the same message, how many speed readers can read (safely) while driving?

I would say that rather than be outraged over a "thing" your outrage would be better suited towards the indoctrination by evil that permeates society in such subtle manners as to desensitize man to its existence in the first place.

I am not assured of my salvation either because I too am mere mortal and a sinner but to me you would have had better grounds to complain if every billboard sign were saying things like Thou shall not steal - yield the right of way. or Thou shall not kill - don't drink and drive

That to me is over the top since it uses Faith and belief in Christ commercially.

Go to church or the devil will get you is succinct and to the point. If you disagree you can always choose the other path - geographically and spiritually.

Nobody forces you to read signs but that sign just might have the right message for the right person at the right time.
... you also not only remembered it but even took the time out to get a picture of it and whether for good or ill purpose is beside the point. You spread the message

Originally posted by isyeye
reply to post by seabag

 

Ok....But if you are a faithful Christian, what would you have to fear from endtimes? It seems that alot of Christians can't wait. The sign isn't for those Christians, it's to get other people back into the seats, or new people into them...using fear. I could never be a "God fearing Christian". If I choose to become a Christian, it would be a "God LOVING Christian. Why would I want to be a part of something I fear? That's like being married so someone that abuses you, and WANTING to stay there to continue the abuse. It makes no sense to me.

Please tell me the last time that an atheist heeded a reminder such as this? Or an agnostic for that matter? It doesn't work like that. God calls. God gives to Christ. That sign is to those whom primarily have forgotten their first love, who have been complacent in their walk with God. It is a reminder that the devil walks around as a hungry lion, devouring everything. It is a reminder to all Faithful, not a scare tactic but a very humbling reminder of our reality.

Terrorists use fear and terror to force people into submission. The devil uses fear and terror for the same purpose, submission and compliance - imminent threat of environmental collapse is leading people to believe that forced killing is an ACCEPTABLE idea, threat of alien invasion, threat of overpopulation forcing a collapse, threat of economic collapse after instilling the love of money, threat of death, threat of war, fear of the unknown, fear of death, fear of persecution, fear of not fitting in, fear of rejection threat threat threat fear fear fear. This is what he does, he forces submission through fear and terror and guides minds to accept the formally unthinkable.

God is love. If He forced submission through fear, that sign should work on you. It doesn't. We don’t have the fear of the Lord because we fear Him. We have the fear of the Lord because we love Him.

reply to post by anoncoholic


"Something is wrong with Religious thinking"

You automatically inserted your bias and being the thread title it is a textual sign that tells people what you are all about... happens for a reason, the reason being that you are so vehemently opposed to Religion that you are being judgmental about a roadside billboard that is not only ambiguous as to which religion or church was being promoted, but that it didn't stroke your ego thus reenforcing your disbelief.

The thread isn't about stroking of egos...it's about the use of negative messages to get the desired result or attention. No, I don't care that the sign didn't promote a specific religion or church. It's the message that is wrong....because it's not true, and promotes fear. Many faiths don't even believe in the devil, and there's no proof if someone does. Yes, I am opposed to religion, but not what they should be. I have no problem with the practice of a faith, it's when that faith supports fear that I don't like.

Isn't it strange how children's shows can put forth characters that imply eating too many cookies will make you a monster for example and yet a sign on the side of a road gets you more riled up?

Really?...maybe I should start my next thread about the Cookie Monster. That should earn a little more respect on ATS.

Or lets look at the more mature shows... haven't you noticed that the majority of our "entertainment" is filled with violence vulgarity and immorality? But that is ok by society because it is a possible reality for some which is what is the selling point... and yet people take offense at a billboard that puts forth a message by contrasting the two sides? I think it was brief and to the point. How else could you promote an idea in so few words other than by showing extremes?

Of course I and everyone else notices it...There's plenty of thread on the subject if you care to search.
How else do you promote an idea such as church without extremes?

How about "God loves you, and so does His Church", "Go to Church, and find Peace and Love", "Church: God's House, and Yours"

Need I continue? There are MANY positive ways. If it takes something negative to promote it, it's not anything of value anyway.

I am not big on organized religions either but the message on the sign was to develop Faith by exposing yourself to His word which you aren't going to get anywhere other than a church.

I can go EVERYWHERE to be exposed to God...Church would be the last place I would go looking.

And yet here again, indoctrinating children to gay agenda's, occultism , bloodshed etc. is acceptable and promoting Faith isn't.

Just because something isn't mentioned in a single thread doesn't mean it's not important or ignored.

Evil has always been in control of man since the day man fell from Grace because men will follow willingly. It is the choice of the individual as to whose path you follow and if a road-sign serves as a reminder whether it is reflecting complete opposites to be brief or sanitized and lengthy to put forth the same message, how many speed readers can read (safely) while driving?

And evil always will if mankind continues using negative messages to promote something that should be positive.

I would say that rather than be outraged over a "thing" your outrage would be better suited towards the indoctrination by evil that permeates society in such subtle manners as to desensitize man to its existence in the first place.

I don't think me creating this thread is a matter of "outrage", but general concern over the state of spirituality in our world. There's nothing wrong with voicing a concern, and rage or anger doesn't have to be involved.

I am not assured of my salvation either because I too am mere mortal and a sinner but to me you would have had better grounds to complain if every billboard sign were saying things like Thou shall not steal - yield the right of way. or Thou shall not kill - don't drink and drive

That to me is over the top since it uses Faith and belief in Christ commercially.

I'll agree with that...but I didn't see a sign like those.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

The devil uses fear and terror for the same purpose, submission and compliance - imminent threat of environmental collapse is leading people to believe that forced killing is an ACCEPTABLE idea, threat of alien invasion, threat of overpopulation forcing a collapse, threat of economic collapse after instilling the love of money, threat of death, threat of war, fear of the unknown, fear of death, fear of persecution, fear of not fitting in, fear of rejection threat threat threat fear fear fear. This is what he does, he forces submission through fear and terror and guides minds to accept the formally unthinkable.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here (but that's only my opinion), Those fears are man-made and have nothing to do with the Devil. There is no proof that the Devil would even exist, so how can it? It's humans that cause these fears and problems, not anything else. It's easy to blame things on Gods or Devils, but in REALITY there is nothing to prove the existence of either, and all we can do is accept what is before us. I know that this is a difference of opinion for those of faith, and those with different beliefs, this is just simply how I personally see it.

reply to post by isyeye

It's a disgrace and they are unwittingly doing the work of the devil, by robbing of the great gift of Jesus Christ the opportunity to recieve his love, and express it in kind.

Terrible, and just terrible theology.

Love your avatar btw.

Originally posted by isyeye

If you want to show someone the power of your beliefs, it should be done with love, not fear.

edit on 20-6-2012 by isyeye because: (no reason given)

(My highlighting)

Thank you for that. No truer words have been spoken.

The open minded among us will both see and appreciate that.

In this day and age though it can be a frustrating way to live simply because the majority of people just don't get it somehow. It's not that they're stupid or hateful, it's just that seeing things through a positive light isn't really being taught anymore, therefor it's going to be misunderstood and overlooked when it is presented to them.

There are a few of us left who see it for what it is though, and that's what makes it all so frustrating I think. As the old saying goes: "The majority rules"

reply to post by isyeye


you talk about respect and yet you failed to show me the same respect by implying because I have Faith and Religions are the strongholds of Faith (many misguided) then I by your reasoning have something wrong with my thinking..

The difference between my post and yours, you attack me to the depth of my being, I attack your outlook. You can change, I can't. In your eyes my thinking is wrong but in the ears of God there is only one right.

My examples are examples. I draw a line for comparison while you drew a line of judgmental-ism against all Faiths.

Many might think I am devout because of fear yet I am not afraid of God...why do you feel God is such a threat to you? If you truly believe I am deluded then show me some respect by accepting that people won't change their way of thinking because of your way of thinking.

Instead you sought to belittle all of Faith by branding us all with the same iron of intolerance towards that which you know nothing about. There is nothing wrong with believing and living a wholesome existence but when those who are void of elementary grace decree that the problem is believing then perhaps you haven't seen the benefits clearly enough to make that call in the first place?

It is like I said, the message while not meant for you alone was still received albeit reluctantly and on that day I know is coming but you refuse to believe in until it is too late for your salvation opens your eyes to your cold heart, that is the day this sign will come back to your memory with understanding of who thought correctly or not. ... and whose outlook caused the most suffering.

It isn't God whom you are judging, but yourself... to sway others to your way of thinking and going against the will of the Lord all but spells out your manifest destiny. Some of us care enough about it to interpret direction and offer guidance but some are over-zealous in their approach. The sign is benign in its wording but damning in its outlook. If you don't believe then the sign isn't your enemy... you refused the cure by declaring it wrongful thinking..

Truth will always be the truth no matter how many lies are propagated against it. While I am sure you don't see yourself as a liar you were never able to judge being minus the facts.

That is wrong thinking, not seeking answers but labeling the issue null and void. Only by seeking God can you come to know Him. Shake hands with the devil instead if that is your leaning... it isn't one bred of righteousness I assure you. You can call foul on the wording all you want but the issue isn't one of sugar-coating to soothe, but to awaken the sleeping by point blank salvo's of choices.

If you don't mind, it doesn't matter so again, why take issue with a billboard rather than the evil it portrays?

Perhaps the shoe fits and you would rather go barefoot, but expect to stumble on your search for truth if you refused it all along.

reply to post by anoncoholic


Let me please state to you that I mean no disrespect toward you, and do thank you for your comments and the time it took to make them. I am no stranger to nearly all religious text and philosophies. A large part of my life has been spent understanding them. The issue for me is that in a matter such as this sign, the words that were given by those text aren't really understood and passed along in a fair manner.

Do you think that Jesus would rather see this sign as it is, or would he rather spread a message of love?

...and that's my whole point here. Sometimes Religion misses the whole point of what they should be about. Does it matter what God you or I believe in? Does it matter that you believe something about Jesus that someone else does not? Does it matter that a Buddist believes different than a Muslim? Not at all...and Religion seems to miss that. Instead they use things like "Believe in this or you burn in hell", and "This path is the ONLY path". That is wrong, and violates everything that our world should be about. Just because our beliefs are different, we have different Gods, or live in different places doesn't change the one universal truth. We are all here, and all deserve the right to love, and be loved. That is the message that all religions need to spread, not ones of fear.

That billboard covers religion in brief or as thoroughly as allowed by its size.
Anyone that finds the sign intrusive has self illuminated their own spiritual oversights

reply to post by redneck13

Originally posted by redneck13
That billboard covers religion in brief or as thoroughly as allowed by its size.
Anyone that finds the sign intrusive has self illuminated their own spiritual oversights

You've begun to hit my point...If this billboard sums up religion in brief, then religion is putting out a negative message to the people it is trying to attract. This is what I see as a vital flaw in religion, and why I say that I am a spiritual person and not religious.

Do I find the sign intrusive? Yes, and if that means I have self illuminated my own spiritual oversights, so be it. I would rather follow what my heart and soul tells me is right, than to feel that a message telling me that if I don't attend a church, the devil will get me, and imply that I will spend eternity burning in hell.

reply to post by isyeye


I am not trying to disrespect any here either and yet how can I speak any other way than that which is in my heart? Not mind, heart. I am moved by the spirit and when my motivation is to bring truth and understanding I am ostracized by all since it goes against the accepted ... it hits people where they live, and challenges life-long held beliefs. That sign isn't the issue but peoples lack of Faith is and Religions do more to diminish Faith in believers than any single entity could ever accomplish on its own. In that regard there is a problem with Religious thinking.

Millions are deceived into seeking God in places (and putting Faith in a man) rather than within. In that context there is a flaw in thinking I'll readily grant you that point. While on the other hand if nobody went to church and sought Faith on their own (or belief ) what happens is all this new-age consideration that leads many more to that spiritual vacuum. Nothing anyone can say will change their minds either since it is the agenda of evil to remove all Faith and what better way than to infiltrate the very churches that people flock to only to find that they had been fooled by man yet they blame God instead.

Here is a video that ties in with the thread linked in my signature. It is long but raises many issues that are overlooked because of Faith and the problem isn't that it is Faith, but mans version of it.

www.youtube.com...

While my reactions to this thread might seem to be against you it really isn't. It is against the misunderstanding of what Faith and belief actually is. While some (churches) claim to know (and every religion declares itself as "the" exclusive path to God) what I know is that divinity isn't taught, it is experienced. It isn't manifested without first believing and the cunning of fallen ones is to make us all believe in ourselves over all else.

Yes, God is a jealous God because He is being challenged and was being challenged from the very beginning. I do not post on forums to endear myself to readers, in fact, I am making more enemies than friends when I don't pull my punches and spell it out like it is. Even women hate me because I point out that they wear makeup (vanity) or that I point out the shortcomings of a life void of the love of Christ.

There are seven churches - seven spirits of the seven churches in Heaven, and those seven churches are the seven main religions of man. The issue is that even having different dogma's, all have a representative spirit in Heaven until the end (Book of Revelation begins with seven letters to those seven churches) and I would be condemned if I held a view of apathy to the truth... the truth that even with a spirit of love, without that spirit of Love "for Christ" and His sacrifice for us all, it is but infatuation.

My point in commenting on this thread is that a specific church wasn't mentioned and who am I to judge when I know that there is one true church, the one that held fast to the teachings of Christ and that is a church that had longevity.

There was only a single apostle who died of natural causes and it is his ministry that is the true Faith, the one true Christian church - not adulterated by man to endear itself to the human condition.

To label them all as being flawed thinking attacks the spirit behind them all and stereotyping the good along with the evil is where I had my contention.

Perhaps there really is so little good left in this world we should all just throw in the towel and wait and see. Personally I care too much about you and all than to simply wait and see.

Maybe I am not even portraying my viewpoint with the right words to convince and am just wasting my time (and everyone elses) but without even trying then I am just going with the flow and complacency of God and destiny leaves me no better off than a judgment waiting to happen.

... it does leave me feeling like I am hated in the world and even that had been foretold. How can overwhelming love for all be so misconstrued into persecution and crucifixion by fellow beings (whether inferior of breed or not) when the message was to bring all together by first removing the evil out of existence and bringing peace and harmony unto a world divided by men and dogmatic principles.

The day is coming when choices made spell life or death and I don't mean the physical death which will be yet another tool in the arsenal that evil employs against God and His moral teachings.

You can't see the spirit but you can feel it if you are open to the vibrational resonant frequency of love and all creation in harmony

but meh, I don't think I am conveying anything new here and am at a loss as to how to prove that which can only be proven by individual experience.

I leave it there to either be understood or rejected

reply to post by isyeye


I see signs like that in my area all the time. What kills me is that these people think it is fine to throw hateful mantra around as long as they are the ones throwing it. They hate gays and Jews and abortion and the little whores that spread their legs. then they say "Bless you" as if they are angels.

They are mostly hypocrites since they all did the things they hate now. They play the holier than though game as if the winner gets a prize. I know they are supposed to get a mansion in heaven, but it's funny that they hate the people who get 7 virgins (apparently the women don't count).

My point is that these people are actively seeking a war to settle their dispute. They play it off like it's God's work and they are always in the right. They never apologize or admit fault. They are dangerous. They are also mostly invalids and not able to physically fight anyone. The worst they can do is scare ignorant people into following their demented agenda. They have never fought for anything themselves, but prefer to have others fight for their ideals.

I ignore them now and laugh at their feeble attempts to guilt me into following their stupid ideology. I am just as likely to become muslim and try for 7 virgins which sounds like more fun anyway.