reply to post by nenothtu
Since ATS is not where I come up with my figures I would not know what has been posted here in the past. I say a million using logical reasoning.
Allow me to share with you my logic.
The US government is accepting a figure of about 650 thousand since the start of the Iraq war (in this go around) While the Iraqi government states a
figure of close to 1.5 million. (big difference huh?) Now, lets examine where I come up aproximately 1 million. First, neither 'government is going to
be saying the whole truth, both are doing their fair share of exaggeration in what figures they will accept because they will only accept what makes
their side look good.
The US would have you believe that they had not one thing to do with any death in Iraq short of 75,000 or so... the rest died old and in their beds,
or of course it was the Iraqis killing Iraqis right? And the Iraqis claim that the US had something to do with every single death, and had no fault in
any matter either. lol.... this is why I do not take government 'statistics' as fact.
That said, you quoted Slayer as saying "Sectarian Violence, Crime related murders, Automobile accidents, Fire related deaths AND Heart attacks.
Most of the civilians that were killed were done so by Iraqi hands."
However, lets break this down. Did you know for instance that sectarian violence not committed by the baath party under Saddam was almost
non-existent? Take away Saddam and enter US military, and all of the sudden sectarian violence abounds! Did you ever wonder why? Did you ever wonder
at the fact the second US was in control the level of shia and sunni wars increased a hundred fold or more? Did you ever pause to consider what hand
the US might have in that one? Why do you think the biggest call right now among sunni and shia is not to listen to the propaganda being spewed forth
from US? (and of course all the arms that the US is busy arming them for all these sectarian wars) Divide and conquer is key US strategy.... in case
you did not know.
automobile accidents... yes oddly many accidents can and apparently do happen when the road you are traveling down (at a decent rate of speed)
suddenly has bombs raining down on it.
Fire related deaths: odd to imagine that bomb which caused the fire would have been causal to any death... nope... definitely just a fire related
heart attacks: sad but true, older people with weaker hearts cannot survive the fear of your country being attacked, your home raided by foreign
military personell, or your loved ones killed because they went out for some food.
When there is chaos, oddly, the looters and criminals find themselves with free reign. Same thing happens in America (see Katrina) and people do die
as a result of actions taken by criminals during a time of total chaos.
then we have other: yes, people do die at checkpoints trying to get to hospital when they are prevented from passing through the checkpoint
quickly.... (the list can go on)
As far as Iraqis killing Iraqis, the US hired in their chosen Iraqis to play police etc, and then the US would turn over peoples they did not want to
torture or kill (bad PR I tell you, if you do it yourself!) and had those Iraqis they hired do the torturing and killing. While I blame Iraqis for
this, again, it would not have happened without the US involvement so both are equally culpable here!
So, as you can see, without the war most of these deaths would never have happened. (as I am positive more than a million people do not die every
decade in Iraq unless there is a war going on!)
Some people, I am sure, did die of unrelated events than war, because people do die, but I am certain that these are the minority and not the majority
of deaths. If it were not for the war, these deaths would either not have happened or could have been prevented. Therefore, in effect, war did cause
And while I do not agree with either governments approved numbers, I do believe the truth lies somewhere in between these two figures. That put it
somewhere around 1 million since the start of the Iraqi war.
This is not a reply for you to reply to. You said your piece now I said mine, and there is no need to argue over it.
edit on 27-6-2012 by
OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)