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Illegal's Get Huge Government IRS Checks - forget the tax REFUND part... Caution: Blood Boiler,

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posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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No it's not. Not at all. I'm saying blame the people who make it possible. The US government ALLOWS this to happen everyday they don't close those loopholes, they are enabling this behavior.


I wish more people shared this beleif and then i wouldn't have to hear about the evil rich, the evil pharma,the evil gmo's, and those evil corporations.

To the op this has been on ATS before illegals getting refunds made possible by those who write the laws, and most likely are written that way for a vote.

And anything about "illegals" has nothing to do with the people it has to do with securing the largest blocks which trend left.

So they bribe them just like the do the poor,the middle class, they whisper them sweet nothings, and promise them everthing, and deliver nothing via pure bribery.

The death of the democracy is when people figured out they could vote themselves money.




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by HandyDandy
 


So, you just think this all made up? Billions didn't go to illegals last year for their dependants? The IRS hasn't come out and declaired this a problem?
huh? No, I don't think it's made up.
What is made up is that a loophole (legal) is involved instead of outright fraud (illegal).


BTW...please read before you type. I never stated that the illegals were the only problem.
Please...point out where I said you did.

edit on 6/19/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 





I hold no brook with tax cheats of any stripe.


Does that include tax collectors who unlawfully and illegally coerce people into admitting their "taxpayer" status, or do you hold brook with that? As long as they have a badge, can you hold brook with their dishonoring their oath of office and acting under color of law, or would that not be included in your definition of "cheat"?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Okay, so when you are singing under penalty of perjury that to the best of your knowledge all the above is true and correct, is this what you are stating, or are you perjuring yourself by not stating such on a valid tax return?


I don't understand what you are stating when you say that we perjure ourselves? To the best of my knowledge, I fill out the form. If something is wrong, it is not in my knowledge (as long as I am truthfull to the best of my knowledge), so therefore how do I perjure myself?



Blame is irrelevant and does nothing to fix any problems.


Not true. If you blame (shame) enough, you have a possibility to stop the practice.

In Nazi Germany, just being blamed for something was enough to ruin your life.

edit on 19-6-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I'm guessing here that you think the income tax is illegal in and of itself. That would seem to be a topic for a different thread. The outrage here would seem to be that illegal immigrants are able to benefit by filing (voluntary) fraudulent tax returns.

edit on 6/19/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
I wish more people shared this beleif and then i wouldn't have to hear about the evil rich, the evil pharma,the evil gmo's, and those evil corporations.


Don't get me wrong. I share this belief. But I also share the belief that anyone (rich, pharma, gmo, corporations) who exploit ARE evil. Sorry that I feel each has a personal responsibility to do the right thing no matter if there is a law in place that says you can do the wrong thing.

THAT is the problem.

Not laws.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by HandyDandy
 





I don't understand what you are stating when you say that we perjure ourselves? To the best of my knowledge, I fill out the form. If something is wrong, it is not in my knowledge (as long as I am truthfull to the best of my knowledge), so therefore how do I perjure myself?


You, naturally, ignored my correcting you on what a subject of a tax is. Did you ignore that so you could continue to remain "truthful" about this "best of your knowledge" claim? Do you think the "taxpayer" should remain ignorant of the law they are presumed to know in order to avoid perjuring themselves?




In Nazi Germany, just being blamed for something was enough to ruin your life.


Are you suggesting this was how the Nazi's fixed their problems, or have you just become particularly adept at misreading the very things you quote so you can keep claiming that "to the best of your knowledge" you understand?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by rtyfx
Hang the scumbag illegals who take advantage of our stupidity.

The root cause may be the tax code, but it's just words on paper until someone abuses it.


It has nothing to do with the tax code.


A decades-old crisis in Mexican agriculture has been
getting worse, due to falling commodities prices and intensified competition
stemming from the North American Free Trade Agreement. Desperate farmhands,
farmers and ranchers say they need a lifeline.

"Prices have been falling ever since we joined NAFTA, and the best we can do
is make enough money to eat poorly," said Godinez, 44, a day worker from the
state of Hidalgo who cultivates corn, alfalfa and beans. "A group of us have
raised half the money we need for a ranching project. But without government
support, there's no way we can make it work."


www.organicconsumers.org...

I just love the way we stand by while people are made poor by our government and then we look down on those who were hurt as being ~ well, something unsavory. Sorry but the stench is coming from your halls of congress and their corrupt toadies in Mexico City, not from any border crosser's rucksack.

So go ahead, blame the Mexican farmers who were driven out of business, blame each other because we've all taken a financial hit, but for gawd's sake don't blame Bill Clinton, his congress or the Maquiladora tycoons.

enchantedwebsites.com...

The daily struggle to make ends meet has intensified.

Consider….

2300 maquiladoras in Mexico
over 500 in Tijuana
650,000 maquiladora workers in Mexico
over 80,000 in Tijuana
70% wage decline in the value of wages since Dec. ‘94
$1.20/hrÐaverage wage in Tijuana maquiladoras (Dec.’94)
$.42/hrÐaverage wage in Tijuana maquiladoras (Mar. ‘96)
42¢ per hour covers less than 60% of daily basic necessities.
Meanwhile, U.S. corporations profit from the hardship of those who can least afford it. Maquiladoras are expanding at a tremendous rate.


.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I'm guessing here that you think the income tax is illegal in and of itself. That would seem to be a topic for a different thread. The outrage here would seem to be that illegal immigrants are able to benefit by filing (voluntary) fraudulent tax returns.

edit on 6/19/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


I do not think the income tax is illegal and know for a fact that Congress has the complete and plenary power of taxation. I can, however, understand why you would make such a guess. That way you could avoid answering the questions and deflect by declaring "that would seem to be a topic for a different thread".

I get the outrage begged for by this thread and I spoke to that pleading in my initial post. I also get that you have entered this thread presenting yourself as someone who seems to understand the tax code. Perhaps you could explain to us what the subject of the so called "income tax" is?

Or, you could suggest that is a topic for different thread and keep pretending that illegal immigrants are the problem.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
The outrage here would seem to be that illegal immigrants are able to benefit by filing (voluntary) fraudulent tax returns.


No. The outrage is not that they are able to do it. The outrage is if they are doing it.

At least for me.

Because like we have stated, anyone can use this law to be unlawful. It's just whether you have a life to destroy or whether you can simply disapear into your home country and never have to be reprimanded.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by neo96
I wish more people shared this beleif and then i wouldn't have to hear about the evil rich, the evil pharma,the evil gmo's, and those evil corporations.


Don't get me wrong. I share this belief. But I also share the belief that anyone (rich, pharma, gmo, corporations) who exploit ARE evil. Sorry that I feel each has a personal responsibility to do the right thing no matter if there is a law in place that says you can do the wrong thing.

THAT is the problem.

Not laws.


Sorry trying to have it both ways there if government is the problem then government is the problem.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by The Sword
 



It is NOT asinine.

It is LOGICAL.

The laws themselves have loopholes that allow people to do certain things. CLOSE the loopholes and you cut off the people abusing them!

How hard is that to understand?


So being that your are so brilliant and want to belittle people, let me ask you a question! "How do we close the loopholes, when they were put there by our government in the first place?"!!!!

Ever tried to argue or fight the IRS??????

Sorry, smug remarks without squat to back them up do nothing for me!




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by HandyDandy
 





I don't understand what you are stating when you say that we perjure ourselves? To the best of my knowledge, I fill out the form. If something is wrong, it is not in my knowledge (as long as I am truthfull to the best of my knowledge), so therefore how do I perjure myself?


You, naturally, ignored my correcting you on what a subject of a tax is. Did you ignore that so you could continue to remain "truthful" about this "best of your knowledge" claim? Do you think the "taxpayer" should remain ignorant of the law they are presumed to know in order to avoid perjuring themselves?


I asked a truthful question and I get a prickish answer? Go frack yourself.




In Nazi Germany, just being blamed for something was enough to ruin your life.


Are you suggesting this was how the Nazi's fixed their problems, or have you just become particularly adept at misreading the very things you quote so you can keep claiming that "to the best of your knowledge" you understand?



You said blame was irrelevant. I say it's not. There is no need to be a superiority complex prick about it.

Good day.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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This the report the article refers to and this is what the report is basically about. They need clarification


TIGTA recommended that the IRS work with the Department of the Treasury to seek clarification on whether or not refundable tax credits may be paid to individuals who are not authorized to work in the United States.




TIGTA also recommended the IRS require individuals filing with ITINs and claiming the ACTC to provide specific verifiable documentation to support that their dependents meet the qualifications for the credit, including residency, and that questionable Child Tax Credit (CTC) and ACTC claims on ITIN returns **********2(f)*******************************. The IRS should also notify taxpayers when their SSNs are compromised and ensure that software packages do not auto-populate an ITIN onto Wage and Tax Statements.


READ IT FOR YOURSELF



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I also get that you have entered this thread presenting yourself as someone who seems to understand the tax code. Perhaps you could explain to us what the subject of the so called "income tax" is?
I understand the portions of the tax code which apply to me (the child tax credit being one such portion).

Subject of income tax? I'm not sure what that means. I am subject to income tax by virtue of having income.



Or, you could suggest that is a topic for different thread and keep pretending that illegal immigrants are the problem.
Please, please point to where I have said illegal immigrants are the problem.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by HandyDandy
 


I answered your question truthfully. You cannot ignore the fact that every tax has a subject and that this subject is either a direct tax on a people or property, or an indirect tax on some specified taxed activity and then pretend that you are answering anything truthfully to the best of your knowledge. I just offered you some knowledge and you willfully ignored it in order to claim you don't understand.




You said blame was irrelevant. I say it's not.


You quoted what I said precisely and I said more than you are claiming now. What I said was that blame is irrelevant and does nothing to fix any problems.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
Sorry trying to have it both ways there if government is the problem then government is the problem.


So if they passed a law tomorrow stating that killing anyone on the internet with their name being neo is lawfull and someone kills you, then I should not blame the murderer for not knowing right from wrong?

I thought we got passed the whole "I was just doing my job/following orders/following the law" crap out of the way in Neuremberg?

I know it's an extreme case but I can't believe you guys are stating that anyone who uses laws to break the law is not guilty just amazes me.


No wonder our country is in the crap hole........



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 





Subject of income tax? I'm not sure what that means. I am subject to income tax by virtue of having income.


It has all ready been pointed out that it is a "taxpayer" who is subject to any applicable revenue laws, but this is not the subject of the tax. "Taxpayers" are not the subject of the tax, that would make it a capitation tax, and Congress has never passed a poll tax. Further, since you claim you understand the tax code as it applies to you then it is fairly assumed you can point to the particular part of the code that imposes a tax on the activity of earning income...good luck with that.




Please, please point to where I have said illegal immigrants are the problem.


I never said you said that, I suggested you could keep pretending they were, and said this based upon this:




The outrage here would seem to be that illegal immigrants are able to benefit by filing (voluntary) fraudulent tax returns.


And this:




Nor do I particularly care for illegal immigrants.


In the context of you not wanting to discuss the very real problem of the tax code itself, and how clearly no one, yourself included, understands it.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I answered your question truthfully. You cannot ignore the fact that every tax has a subject and that this subject is either a direct tax on a people or property, or an indirect tax on some specified taxed activity and then pretend that you are answering anything truthfully to the best of your knowledge. I just offered you some knowledge and you willfully ignored it in order to claim you don't understand.


I still don't understand. Can you explain it better? Or just be a superior _ _ _ _ _?

What does having a subject to be taxed have to do with me perjuring myself. Not everyone is a lawyer you know?




You quoted what I said precisely and I said more than you are claiming now. What I said was that blame is irrelevant and does nothing to fix any problems.


What do YOU put on the table to fix the problem?

I hear alot from you guys about the "problem" being the codes but not hearing any solution from you?

At least my solution (blame the ones who are cheating the system) is an active "fix". What are you doing to fix the problem? Arguing about subjects of taxes on the internet?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
how clearly no one, yourself included, understands it.


Does that include you too?

If so, why the high horse?
edit on 19-6-2012 by HandyDandy because: (no reason given)



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