Originally posted by coop039
Kind of reminds mre of this:

HIGH SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2012

Scenario 1:
Jack goes quail hunting before school and then pulls into the school parking lot with his shotgun in his truck's gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2010 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario 2:
Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2010 - Police called and SWAT team arrives -- they arrest both Johnny and Mark. They are both charged with assault and both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario 3:
Jeffrey will not be still in class, he disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to the Principal's office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He then returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2010 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. He becomes a zombie. He is then tested for ADD. The family gets extra money (SSI) from the government because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario 4:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college and becomes a successful businessman.
2010 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. The state psychologist is told by Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.

Scenario 5:
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares his aspirin with the Principal out on the smoking dock.
2010 - The police are called and Mark is expelled from school for drug violations. His car is then searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario 6:
Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English and goes to college.
2010 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against the state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English is then banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario 7:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2010- ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents - and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario 8:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 –In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2010 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5years of therapy.


Are these based on real stories?

Originally posted by onequestion
This country has turned into a bunch of sissies.

Originally posted by immortalreiku
anti violence parents that have been brainwashed by society to be pussies

I see people as becoming more violent and less thoughtful. That seems to be the current trend in "brainwashing". Kids and companies are encouraging kids to be irresponsible.

I happen to be large, muscular, and intelligent. I don't throw my weight around. I'm smart enough to defuse a situation. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter to be peaceful. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter Aikido.

Originally posted by Unity_99I assure you, they will be caving in, not phasing in, to the Equality/Freedom/Progression of all people.

Except this world you look forward to will never happen. It will be overrun by all the hoods and thugs who have learned that they can do what they want without fear of retribution. You might see love and understanding as strength that will help them grow, but many kids these days see it simply as a weakness in you. They can - and will - exploit that perceived weakness for their own gain.

Compassion is a great tool but it is useless without a big stick to back it up. The criminal justice system is not full of people who "want to be good and only need a chance" or "have been failed by the system" or just need a reeeaaaaally big hug. It's full of people who realise they can do what they want with practical impunity because many of the punishments on offer (in the UK at least) have little or no deterrent value.

As for the original post, while I am glad that they had a teacher who tried to identify and correct a problem, I am not sure I agree with the method in this instance.

Great message that sends... Oh yeah hitting is BAD, unless of course an authority figure tells you to do it. Then it is acceptable and great fun. Is that the message you want schools telling your kids? What the hell kind of twisted mind does a teacher like that have? Fighting back against a bully attack is one thing, authority figure sanctioned revenge and corporal punishment is a total different ballgame.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Great message that sends... Oh yeah hitting is BAD, unless of course an authority figure tells you to do it. Then it is acceptable and great fun. Is that the message you want schools telling your kids? What the hell kind of twisted mind does a teacher like that have? Fighting back against a bully attack is one thing, authority figure sanctioned revenge and corporal punishment is a total different ballgame.

I'm not sure if it's clear, but this is my stance as well. However, I've learned that using an attacker's force against the attacker is safer and also scares the attacker.

I don't necessarily agree in the manner it was done but god damn it these kids today need a good ole fashioned whooping sometimes. My 4 year old is going thru the "#ing fours" right now and he is mouthy as hell. I want to beat his little ass sometimes, lol. I agree that showing anger as an adult is not the right way to teach your kids. However, we've gotten softer as a society, what's it going to be like for our grand kids who's parents didn't get any sort of physical discipline?

Though lining up the whole class to slap the bully might not have been the best choice, at least the teacher attempted to address the situation. Time outs won't solve bullying. Detention won't solve it either.

I don't have the solution to bullying, but I do know that bullies prey on soft targets. If you want to stop being bullied, one way to achieve that is to show the bully that you are a hard target, and I think the teacher intended to show the bully that everyone in the class is a hard target. Good intention, poor judgment IMO.

Bullies learn their behavior from somewhere, generally from their caretakers, and in this case the kid's mom is providing a great example of how to bully people as an adult. Justice is not vengeance, and this woman is looking for vengeance. The teacher promptly lost her job, but that's "not enough." The knots in her stomach demand MOAR!

Unless you deal with the root cause of bullying, it will never go away. Its exactly the same psychology as terrorism. Or even U.S. foreign policy. What is the root? The root , imo, has a hold of you in everyway possible, as it does our nemesis. My own basis is insecurity and I assume its the same for you. Please figure this out soon, because our spiral is passing into an unobserved passage of our galaxy, that is a dark matter custerfick of unknown space. And maybe that is why our society is heading this way. I might accept this unkown territory as an excuse for parents and their bullies alike, if it wasnt for the "I'm better then you" mentality.Of course, I see lots of wonderful, positive children everywhere I look. Stop making excuses. And I hate to sound angry, I feel like the chips are gonna fall very soon. Rant over :')

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
A six year old child learns from the environment they're raised in. This is wrong on so many levels..yes, the child needs to be shown his behavior is wrong but you simply don't fix violence issues in a small child with more violence. He behaves the way he does because of what he learns at home.

And after getting slapped by all his classmates and humiliated, he will never bully again; the greatest lesson he learned for the rest of his life, and society is better for it.

If you're against this because "violence doesn't solve violence", and "there are other ways..blah blah blah...", what do you suggest? Everything possible from the non-corporal punishment side has been tried and they haven't put an end to bullying, it's just getting worse. Is a child going to stop bullying because if he gets caught he might have to sit and listen to non-threatening adult explain in nice tones why bullying isn't really such a good idea? A child may think twice before being naughty if he/she knows that a painful visit with the principal's yard stick may be the result.

Early lesson in consequences for ones actions, or crime and punishment.

Originally posted by Speckle
Unless you deal with the root cause of bullying, it will never go away. Its exactly the same psychology as terrorism. Or even U.S. foreign policy. What is the root? The root , imo, has a hold of you in everyway possible, as it does our nemesis. My own basis is insecurity and I assume its the same for you. Please figure this out soon, because our spiral is passing into an unobserved passage of our galaxy, that is a dark matter custerfick of unknown space. And maybe that is why our society is heading this way. I might accept this unkown territory as an excuse for parents and their bullies alike, if it wasnt for the "I'm better then you" mentality.Of course, I see lots of wonderful, positive children everywhere I look. Stop making excuses. And I hate to sound angry, I feel like the chips are gonna fall very soon. Rant over :')

The root cause of bullying is that the bully can get away with it in this wimpy age. Don't over-analyze this. A bad kid will continue to be bad if there are no punishments.

Originally posted by gentledissident
I happen to be large, muscular, and intelligent. I don't throw my weight around. I'm smart enough to defuse a situation. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter to be peaceful. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter Aikido.

Aikido could be taught in schools (we will be teaching it in ours).
It's an effective and fun way to understand flow of energy and non-aggressive conflict resolution

... and yeah, when you need to you can use it to educate bullies too

I think this is great news, although I think bullying is taken too lightly anyway.

As someone who has friends who are teachers I can say that the rules and polcies (at least in Britain) are absolutely worthless when it comes to bullying, because it almost treats the bully with as much compassion as the victim. Does it work? Absolutely not!

I have spent years in roles that are confrontational and the one thing I have learned is that meeting violence with pacifism is often a waste of time. If the offender feels as though they have got away with their behaviour they will more often than not, repeat it and not just repeat it, but take it one step further each time.

No matter how good your intentions are, there are those out there that just wish to control or even destroy Human life and that is the reality of the situation, punishing them with padded gloves is as about as useful as a chocolate teapot in the desert. Many of these bullies at school go on to commit violent crime later, whether this is as a career criminal or whether this is fighting in bars every weekend or domestic violence, far too many exhibit signs of violence and control and general sociopathic behaviour at school, this usually only comes to light when it is far too late and something awful has happened.

So to me, bullying should be taken very seriously, much like animal cruelty, people don't realise just what it often leads to, as well as how wrong it is.

I say well done to that teacher, but in general, bullying should be taken far more seriously by all, especially the Police and the justice system, than it currently is.

Originally posted by primus2012

Originally posted by Speckle
Unless you deal with the root cause of bullying, it will never go away. Its exactly the same psychology as terrorism. Or even U.S. foreign policy. What is the root? The root , imo, has a hold of you in everyway possible, as it does our nemesis. My own basis is insecurity and I assume its the same for you. Please figure this out soon, because our spiral is passing into an unobserved passage of our galaxy, that is a dark matter custerfick of unknown space. And maybe that is why our society is heading this way. I might accept this unkown territory as an excuse for parents and their bullies alike, if it wasnt for the "I'm better then you" mentality.Of course, I see lots of wonderful, positive children everywhere I look. Stop making excuses. And I hate to sound angry, I feel like the chips are gonna fall very soon. Rant over :')

The root cause of bullying is that the bully can get away with it in this wimpy age. Don't over-analyze this. A bad kid will continue to be bad if there are no punishments.

And how does that explain all the posters who complained of being bullied when they were in school (ages ago?!)
Hey, my school in the UK still did beating with a stick in front of the entire school at assembly.
That didn't stop bullying, we still had it just as prevalent back then as my nephews and nieces have it today (my own kids don't go to govt. school)

Now if by 'this age' you mean in astrological terms, that's a different story.

Originally posted by wagnificent
Though lining up the whole class to slap the bully might not have been the best choice, at least the teacher attempted to address the situation.

It was a million miles from the best choice. Plus the teacher in effect ducked responsibility and got the class to address the situation. Reacting in self defence if you are hit by a builly is one thing. Lining up a class - including friends who didn't want to participate - and instructing them each to hit him is nasty and sadistic.
What message does it send to those other kids?

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by onequestion
This country has turned into a bunch of sissies.

Originally posted by immortalreiku
anti violence parents that have been brainwashed by society to be pussies

I see people as becoming more violent and less thoughtful. That seems to be the current trend in "brainwashing". Kids and companies are encouraging kids to be irresponsible.

I happen to be large, muscular, and intelligent. I don't throw my weight around. I'm smart enough to defuse a situation. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter to be peaceful. I'm smart enough to teach my daughter Aikido.

edit on 20-6-2012 by gentledissident because: (no reason given)

Very smart of you. There are some people, though few they are, who don't understand anything but force and violence and with whom you cannot reason. They insult, threaten, intimidate, and resort to violence for no other reason than they enjoy doing so. They see something they want, they take it. No asking. No buying. Just taking. If you resist there will be some degree of violence. If not at that moment, then later when they feel more "courageous".

You're lucky if you've never met one. Your daughter too. Aikido has its limits.

No doubt these types behave in that manner as a result of deep psychological wounds or because they see themselves as "assertive" and "alpha" types. So what. Doesn't mean you need to let them walk over you.

Corporal punishment has a limited place and can be very effective when used appropriately, harmlessly, and promptly. Study operant conditioning. The bully who who was finally pounched in the face by his victim is a prime example. One event and he was operantly conditioned not to bully that kid again.

why is it that bullies have free reign to physically assault their classmates, but if you defend yourself you get in trouble?

i faced a similar situation in school, and after a few weeks of putting up with it i decked the kid square in the nose. neither he nor anyone else messed with me after that.

the funny thing is, i was punished for fighting back, yet the bully administering "cup checks" (where you cup your hand and uppercut another boy in the genitals) for weeks wasn't punished.

i applaud this teacher with the tenacity to not be hypocritical.