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Originally posted by Hanslune
Originally posted by benrl
Exactly. The thing is, high technology just doesn't exist in a vacuum. It exists within an equally high-tech infrastructure. High technology things require precision. Precision requires machines. Machines require maintenance and power sources
Take the Toba catastrophe, A few asteroid strikes, a few super volcanoes, an ice age are two...
How much would be left of our civilization after such events? might the next Civ start out with some crazy creation story and maybe a few scattered monoliths of Ours to remind them?
The Thera volcano blew up with a mighy explosion and left the Akrotiri on the same island, some event preserve materials also like Pompeii
A world wide civilization to be erased would require a natural event(s) that would easily show up in the geological record.....
Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by benrl
Exactly, I have no problem believing that the whole of history has repeated itself in cycles. What would be left of our civilization in 10,000 years if we were to destroy ourselves now. Not much I'd say, except the odd anomoly like we find now.
Originally posted by XaniMatriX
And they did, ice ages, volcanic eruptions, floods, and not to mention the few sights around the world containing Massive Craters that could possibly be explosions from bombs?(since no one really KNOWS) an Advanced Ancient Civilization and maybe even multiple civilizations, millions of years apart, is a very reasonable idea, and even if we did, or do discover something, it would be so alien to us, that we would think ALIENS or HOAX, and not much else of it.
Originally posted by uwascallywabbit
the "debate" is really not a fair one...
on the one hand, we have the mainstream sci community. these are folk who claim
that science is a continual process of collective additive improvement and adjustment where old models are replaced by more successul models
That they are RIGHT about what they tell us.
theres a contradiction built in to this, according to science ITSELF, it isnt RIGHT, it is a close approximation of RIGHT for use NOW until it is replaced by a closer approximation...
the resistance of science to embrace anomalous data is a sad mistake, for it is the anomalous data that offers us the fastest way out of our caveman problem.
looking at the pieces that DO NOT fit our model is the best way to improve our model.
but on the other side we have woowoos, even if they are right, the mainstream has not yet given them the nod, this alone will keep the herd away..
This argument, the discussion of our ancestors and the mysteries of earlier life on this planet, is spoiled by the large number of folk who have already picked sides..
off the top of my head we have the theosophists, the cayce crowd, each of the major religions, the EVD folk, the more specific but related Sitchin people, and the more sci oriented but very similar themes of Hoagland.
i know theres more of us wierdos but this is just for illustration...
then youve got mainstream science, which claims to be free of all the superstitions of the above crowd, but is riddled with assumptions of their own. Many of the assumptions of science are clung to with the strength of a religious belief, and for the same reasons, an old respected man wrote it into a book long ago (LOL)
for example, i took archeology 101 a few years back at the city college for fun. with a straight face my prof told us that the inca had no written language and no knowledge of the wheel. we then learned about the quippas (sp?) or knotted cords which served as a recorded language, and we saw photos of wheeled toys.
the same guy also told us that the Olmec had no knowledge of metalworking, he then went on to tell us that the Olmec were MASTER GOLDSMITHS.
The average debunker is usually satisfied with an appeal to authority type argument. The average wierdo is really doing the same thing, you see it here all the time as people post snips from their authority figures (mainstream or woowoo)
but what we really gotta do instead is OPEN UP OUR EYES. pretty much each of the models on the table has flaws and strengths, which is why each has supporters although we havent found THE TRUTH yet.
we have to be willing to chuck old models and replace them, even if that means we enter into a personal identity crisis and have to redefine ourselves and our role in the world.. ITS A JOURNEY
and it seems that people very much like us have been making that journey here on earth for a very long time.
The regular picture is upsetting itself, we dont have to help that happen, at the age of 42, ive already seen the "official" threshold of civilization get pushed back from greece to egypt to sumer...
now we have harrapa, mojeno daro, marcahuasi, catalhuluk, and a whole lotta other places i cant spell.
but the "regular" folk dont know about these sites, "Regular" folk know what they learned in school...
so if it all started in egypt in 3kbc... and THESE OTHER GUYS were doing it in 15kbc... then we gotta have aliens... but thats only because the official picture says NO SMART PEOPLE. but the official picture is always changing, it just takes time for the academic trickle down effect to hit people outside of specialized fields
but of course theres no reason that say that we DONT got aliens, the 2 arguments dont really have to connect.
what if there was a "high tech" human culture here without aliens? or what if those folk were high tech and had alien contact? or what if those folk "were" aliens (human space colonists arriving on earth from elsewhere)... what if high tech ancient earth humans fled a pole shift and took a long relativistic trip through space and are only coming back home about now after thousands of "local" years? OMG theyd be time travelers, ancient earth people, and aliens from space ALL AT ONCE.
Model Agnosticism is the way to go.
and PS i cant believe nobody posted a pic of the wild haired guy from that alien history tv show (love it!) is that fad already passe?edit on 30-8-2012 by uwascallywabbit because: stuffedit on 30-8-2012 by uwascallywabbit because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by uwascallywabbit
heres a site that just boggles the mind... we do things in a way that makes sense to us, but when you look at the ruins of this site, they dont really make sense at all. Nan Madol is a huge complex made from basalt logs cut into cylinders. it doesnt seem (to me) to be a smart way to build something at all. they seemed to use the basalt like logs in a log cabin.
as if cutting and moving stone like that is somehow easier or better than cutting and moving wood.
sites like this lead me to believe that even some of our "primitive" ancestors knew something about moving stone that we dont know today.
its almost as if a primitive people were givien powerful tools but not the knowledge that should have come with it. im speculating here of course...
or NAZCA anyone? im sure many of you have heard of it. of course its been DEBUNKD but have you looked at the shots recently? theres plenty more but heres at least one pic on a link
of the official nazca theories my fav is that the complex "runway" looking wedge type patters and the long straight lines are a record of water table properties for the area. this one is thought to be reinforced by the serious underground water works found at nazca.
it just makes me wonder how a bunch of "primitives" on the altiplano mapped a water table in the first place instead of moving on toward livible land. even today this area is only sparsely populated
much of the stonework in the old world is very curious indeed. maybe we are 100 percent wrong about the past, and the ONLY things that survived were the stones?
They will say that mount rushmore is a trick of light and shadow, unless they find enough of our power tools to say otherwise, and the few power tools that they do find, will be thought to be religious artifacts, unless they work, in which case they will be snatched up by the current powers that be for a close look..
fingerprints of the gods by g hancock is a nice model free look at this stuff. the only model hancock is selling is that there was a global civilization before history...
this seems to be backed up with cultural links and hard archeo links (like the three doors posted earlier, or the large number of stepped pyramid sites with square courtyards)
if the debunkers dont like the term high tech for this culture, lets redefine it, High Tech according to the Neolithic, sailing the world, mapping, living in cities and making things, not just hiding in caves smashing rocks together.
but for evidence of high tech, many would suggest the precision of the Great Pryamid as a solid argument.
the precision in that monument is not the kind of stuff associated with agriculture, or even seafaring. its the kind of precision associated with industry or even optics... it just wasnt required to make a tomb with those characteristics...
so if necessity is the mother of invention, then what was going on at Giza in the day?
much of the woowoo argument centers on HOW it was made... thats not what trips me up..
i wanna know HOW IT WAS MEASURED... i bet they werent using rope lines and squinting, its just too good.
a good look at the precision is in the work of Christopher Dunn, even if you dont like his power plant theory, his measurements are neato-keen..
heres a link to "advanced machining in ancient egypt"
theres also a great write up on chris dunns site about a certain drill core in the petrie musem... more on that in a bit
edit on 30-8-2012 by uwascallywabbit because: spellingedit on 30-8-2012 by uwascallywabbit because: added chris dunn