An Extremely High Tech Civilization Definitely Existed In The Distant Past Of Our Planet

Originally posted by Shadow Herder



Yes this is very true but some of the "experts" who I might add are not experts in anything but ignorance state that no wooden or reed ship has ever been found from beyond 2000 b.c intact so therefore they must have not sailed the ocean. Yet evidence from the mediterranean has proven that man was navigating the ocean and seas much earlier than believed.

You were shown evidence of wooden canoes going back over 5,000 years so why restate a false fact? Sure they were moving across the Med to local islands there is a difference between going to an island over the horizon in a journey of a few days or hours to months at sea in the deep ocean

Food for thought: Garbage, debris and a barge floated to the west coast of North America from the Japan tsuanmi. This garbage had no navigation skills or the ability to navigate yet made it to the 'new world'.

We already know that boats from Asia can float to the Americas, the problem is only a very few have the crew surviving, this has occurred in historic times.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Shadow Herder

We already know that boats from Asia can float to the Americas, the problem is only a very few have the crew surviving, this has occurred in historic times.

And that is why it is only my belief - and also why i get excited over the finds in Papua that we have discussed before. I will concede though that these finds are not evidence either, although they do suggest deep sea travel.

Basically, evidence is needed that may never be found.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Shadow Herder

 

At certain points on the continents, it is impossible to leave land and not end up on a different continent - it is simply the way ocean currents work.

Projections have shown that a boat / raft could leave Europe and drift to America in no more than 5 weeks. Obviously, they would have to have found some way to feed themselves on the journey and violent seas would have swamped them - nevertheless, science shows it is possible.

Regarding boat finds, maritime archeologists dream of finding Bronze Age or earlier shipwrecks - it is their equivalent of opening Tutankhamun's burial chamber.

Whilst several aeons after this period, we now know the Romans traded with India and had outposts there, for ship bound trade. Obviously, as until very recently, this involved no travel around the monsoon as the seas would have been too violent for ships of that era - so while the did indeed hug the coast, they did so in extremely difficult seas to navigate.

However, i have to stress again, this is my personal belief. At present, there is little to no evidence to support this.

Old ships,,

Old ships 6,500 years old

There is also the Pesse canoe which is around 9,000 years old

reply to post by Hanslune


Hi Hanslune

I know some wrecks have been found and excavated, just not very many and generally not in particularly good condition. That's why i want more!

Thanks for the links though.

Like i said above, we have discussed this before and my views are more based on "gut feeling" rather than evidence. However, the Roman ship found recently completely with tanks for storing live fish offer the possibility that long distance travel was certainly possible.

ETA:

My gut feeling is not concerning the spread of people around the world, this can be identified through DNA analysis, amongst various other techniques. My gut feeling instead revolves around ancient trade and the exposure this brought to other cultures / peoples / etc.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Hi Hanslune

I know some wrecks have been found and excavated, just not very many and generally not in particularly good condition. That's why i want more!

Thanks for the links though.

Like i said above, we have discussed this before and my views are more based on "gut feeling" rather than evidence. However, the Roman ship found recently completely with tanks for storing live fish offer the possibility that long distance travel was certainly possible.

In the early 80's I was at a conference where we discussed what would be needed to get a ship to the Americas and who could have done it. I believe the solution we came up with was that yes a Roman ship carrying wine (solving the water problem) could have been driven south of the Canary islands by storm, disabled, the able seamen killed, and the remaining crew would have drifted to NE Brazil/SA. We know people made it to the NW NA but the problem is they, until modern times, they didn't get back and were for the most part fishermen, and probably had little if any effect on the local cultures (AFAWK)

edited to add, if you are interested in long distance sea travel that is mysterious look at the peopling of Madagascar

reply to post by Hanslune


I may be very wrong on this but hasn't tin been found on an old Mediterranean shipwreck? If true, that would indicate trade between the Med and Cornwall in the UK.

Whilst this trip could be made hugging the coastline, i have to say it isn't one i would fancy in an old style ship! Truth be told, i wouldn't be so keen in a modern boat! Could you imagine crossing the Bay of Biscay in a galley?

ETA:

Yes, Madagascar is very strange isn't it? Again, not a trip that i would fancy using the suspected mode of transport.

Originally posted by Flavian

Yes Madascagar is a real mystery - well actually the easiest solution is that some of the people in Indonesia either sailed across the Indian ocean or more improbably coasted around.

Unless you're into alien assisted paratroopers....

Yes the tin trade is well known and documented, Salcombe and in the Med the famous Uluburun wreck had tin ingots in it

reply to post by Hanslune


Bingo! The entrances have a specific meaning. Richard Cassaro is irrelevant. He is merely a tool. If you want to debunk something you quote scholars. So am I not allowed my own sources? The source is irrelevant. It is the message itself that is important. If you want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead. But don't stop other people from learning with your cynical attitude..

Are you aware of the Yin/Yang, Sun/Moon, Good/Evil, duality reference in the triptych? You have failed to answer why all major pyramid building societies also built triptychs, corbel arches, and mummified their dead.

These are not merely things done for simplicity, but reason...They didn't built the pyramids for simplicity, but for a reason...

Like the Swastika, was used in Europe far before Christianity ever reared it's head.

en.wikipedia.org...

Swastika also represents duality...

“The common eye sees only the outside of things, and judges by that, but the ‘all seeing eye’ pierces through, and reads the heart and the soul, finding there capacities which the outside didn’t indicate or promise, and which the other kind couldn’t detect.” - Mark Twain

“Everywhere among the ancients the number three was deemed the most sacred of numbers…
In all the mysteries, from Egypt to Scandinavia,we find a sacred regard for the number three…
In Freemasonry, the ternary is the most sacred of all the mystical numbers.”
—Albert Mackey, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, 1879

I doubt Secret societies do it just because it looks nice...After all where do you think they got the blueprint for building the Cathedrals to match Triptychs?

Right and left is Ida and Pingala.



Does it make sense now?



Or how about now? Do you recognize this image?



It's the symbol for the sanskrit sound Om or Aum. It is used to stimulate your sixth chakra, the pineal gland. Denoted by the bindi dot. I guess it's a coincidence that the number 3, and a sun inside the crescent moon can be visible on it huh?

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


This is where i find difference with what is mainstream science. Many of them are not initiated into these rites, and therefore have little to no understanding of them. They dig up bones, clay shards, and rocks. From these, they attempt to apply the context, completely disregarding the mindset of the class of people who would make these things.

Then there are those who are initiated in the rites that are archaologists. They will generally gloss over the relations, due to the viewpoint that they would be tipping the Mysteries' hand to the profane.

Great post, once again.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I quite agree, and there lies the problem..Anything that contradicts the 'God' factor can not be considered part of accepted science. Just look at the influence the Catholic church has over astronomy..

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Hanslune

 

The entrances have a specific meaning. Richard Cassaro is irrelevant.

Yes but we disagree on what that is, yes RC is relevant as you are using his research and materials and not citing it, nor do I believe you know how he obtained it....

So am I not allowed my own sources?

Of course but you've twice said he was irrevelant while using his material - rather odd

The source is irrelevant.

Tsk tsk, actual it is because you appear to be using it without understanding the methods he used to obtain it, a major fail.

It is the message itself that is important. If you want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead.

Sorry dude you're going off for no particular reason, try again

But don't stop other people from learning with your cynical attitude

Translation: only my ideas count and you MUST beleve me.....lol, I think not I will evalute your evidence (actually RC's)

Are you aware of the Yin/Yang, Sun/Moon, Good/Evil, duality reference in the triptych? You have failed to answer why all major pyramid building societies also built triptychs, corbel arches, and mummified their dead.

Actually I did you just rejected it, so did the Sumerians do that to? Remember you only showed evidence from two places. You didn't respond to my finding three doors ways of the same size, why? Is your mind closed? Please also comment on how you do a comparative study of common elements in architecture - is the material you are using fro RC - did he follow that methodology or did he cherry pick......think fruit

These are not merely things done for simplicity, but reason...They didn't built the pyramids for simplicity, but for a reason...

Yep, tombs, and temples mainly

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by VeritasAequitas

 

This is where i find difference with what is mainstream science. Many of them are not initiated into these rites, and therefore have little to no understanding of them.

Actually it is studied by not as much by archaeologist, you're looking at history, anthropology and other specialized studies in religion and myth

They dig up bones, clay shards, and rocks. From these, they attempt to apply the context, completely disregarding the mindset of the class of people who would make these things.

You are forgetting that this material is given to the experts I noted above, and by publication that information is also given out. The experts use archaeological material and archaeologists use materials produced by the experts, it collobrative. Most sites have say a team of 20-40 people involved in it and on average only 3-4 are archaeologists

Then there are those who are initiated in the rites that are archaologists. They will generally gloss over the relations, due to the viewpoint that they would be tipping the Mysteries' hand to the profane.

Great post, once again.

Depends you'll find few scientists who think that these things are 'real', real to the culture that created them but having no effect on the real world. I use to work with LDS archaeologists in the Yucatan, although it pained them they wrote their parts of reports in scientific terms and didn't invoke the book of Mormon.....however there are a few who are 'bent' by their religious or political, national bias

reply to post by Hanslune


Lets say there was a belief system employed by what is typically the "ruling class". Like the current world. In the future it is likely that archaeologists would denote the whole concept of "banking" that we had, and may even cobble together a very rough understanding of it. But the majority of its mechanisms, especially those hidden from view of people like you and I, they will be lost forever.

The "Mysteries" are a tradition that permeates a large segment of human culture. I have a hard time grappling with how the Amerind people were to come by the same "Mysteries" as the European and Asians. Regardless, the study of these bits of esoteric wisdom has usually been reserved for very specific people.

Another analogy is Buddhism. The greatest breakthroughs that Buddhism has had are lost to time. It is typical of the Buddhist to not care for posterity, or to communicate out what they "know". The viewpoint they hold (that we all have our own path) precludes high level recording of the real history of Buddhism. What we are left with is a fractured shard of the whole.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Lets say there was a belief system employed by what is typically the "ruling class". Like the current world. In the future it is likely that archaeologists would denote the whole concept of "banking" that we had, and may even cobble together a very rough understanding of it. But the majority of its mechanisms, especially those hidden from view of people like you and I, they will be lost forever.

I believe you will find that there is little consistency in the 'ruling class', banking as used in Cuba and North Korean is somewhat different than Switzerland. What is it that you think is held out of your view? The way the banking system works is well known. I've taught banking, its a series of systems. With any luck our publications on the matter will survive and they'll understand it just fine

The "Mysteries" are a tradition that permeates a large segment of human culture. I have a hard time grappling with how the Amerind people were to come by the same "Mysteries" as the European and Asians. Regardless, the study of these bits of esoteric wisdom has usually been reserved for very specific people.

Because they are all human and humans oddly enough imagine and create the same way, if you break down human mythology, folklore, legend etc, it has a common thread, some would say this is due to x or y god while others apply it to the source, human's themselves.

reply to post by Hanslune


I agree that humans tend to create human constructs. We are all products of the universe, and tend to carry artifacts of this in who we are. That whole "all is one" thing.

But regarding banks, you really believe that everything about banking is up front? I am an accounting director, so I am fully aware of how money moves through the system.

Some people cannot recognize when they have been out argued and beaten badly and are unable to leave a debate with grace...........just getting the last word in even though it may be off-topic and not address previous arguments doesn't constitute any kind of "win" and in fact it is quite a petty and annoying trait, and many employing this tactic are blind to these facts. I will not refer to any specific names as that is not allowed, but enlightened posters will know to whom I am referring.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I agree that humans tend to create human constructs. We are all products of the universe, and tend to carry artifacts of this in who we are. That whole "all is one" thing.

But regarding banks, you really believe that everything about banking is up front? I am an accounting director, so I am fully aware of how money moves through the system.

Then what are you hiding? Define 'upfront'?

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
Some people cannot recognize when they have been out argued and beaten badly and are unable to leave a debate with grace...........just getting the last word in even though it may be off-topic and not address previous arguments doesn't constitute any kind of "win" and in fact it is quite a petty and annoying trait, and many employing this tactic are blind to these facts. I will not refer to any specific names as that is not allowed, but enlightened posters will know to whom I am referring

Why yes its you, so why are you doing this? It is obvious ya' know, lol

reply to post by Hanslune


When I took basic economics in high school, there was no talk about what the federal reserve actually was. I mean, I guess if you think about it (which is what I eventually did), power directly follows money. But this isn't something talked about openly. But we were led to believe that it was largely a US property. My school isn't the only one that, while not stating it directly, allows the misconception to be fostered in the text books. Perhaps now, 20 some odd years later, all that has changed.

But this isn't the point of what I was talking about. What I was talking about was how the inner mechanisms, the things that actually cause the gears to turn, likely won't be readily obvious to archaeologists. Especially modern banking, which can be counter-intuitive to say the least.

Another example would be the way we were able to build and maintain our roads. It is a rather HUGE network of roads that complements our air/rail/water capability And it is obvious that they are not the highest quality. It would likely not be obvious as to why we built all manner of things from inferior materials. Until they were able to consider that our entire economic system relies on consumerism. The massive landfills, the poorly built monuments that didn't stand the test of time like the Pyramids....none of it will make sense when they realize that we actually had access to high quality materials and techniques, and just chose to ignore them to stoke our economic furnaces.

There are lots of examples of elements of a society that can be missed entirely. Even key, integral elements.