An Extremely High Tech Civilization Definitely Existed In The Distant Past Of Our Planet

reply to post by Hanslune


Thanks for your offer, but I'll wait for a while.

I was finally directed to this davidpratt.info...

It does not say anything more or less than what I stated and in fact reinforces what I said.

Protzen himself states that he can not understand how the complex masonry was achieved. Mitres, returns, blind returns, sharp angles etc without the use of advanced machinery similar to what we would use today, he does not think that this was achieved with what we know, stone hammering etc. His experiment was limited in scope, using a small peice of andesite and a much harder hammer.

reply to post by stevemac1


You are still touting that Protzen is wrong so, can you show us evidence for this advance culture? Odd that the Spanish didn't seem them, where did these stone gypsies skip off to?

Pounding a block with a hammer stone leaves scars, or pit marks, and in the case of limestone, it produces whitish discolouration in or around the scar. Protzen sees the fact that the stones used in Inca walls bear similar scars as proof that only his own method had been used. He cites several writers from the time of the conquest in support of his view. Garcilaso de la Vega wrote in 1609 that the Incas ‘had no other tools to work the stones than some black stones ... with which they dressed the stone by pounding rather than cutting’. Jose de Acosta, a Jesuit priest travelling with the conquistadors, wrote in 1589: ‘All this was done with much manpower and much suffering in the work, for to fit one stone to the other, until they were adjusted, it was necessary to try the fit many times.

Yes why believe those natives! Why do you not believe the natives?

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by MysterX

 

The problem is to associate x natural disaster with a y civilization(s). No earthwide destroying natural events have occurred, during 'our' timeframe - which would have been capable of destroying a world-wide civilization.

A small one perhaps but there is no evidence to support that contention.

To get to 'earth destroying' you have to go back to before human's and perhaps even mammals.....

But there is evidence to support the very thing happening as i have said Hanslune..frankly i wouldn't have said there was solid proof of the events of around 13,000 years ago, if there wasn't any.

Seriously, 13,000 years ago is no time at all..relatively speaking.

Gobleki - Tepe in Turkey is estimated to be 13,000 - 15,000 years old.

Puma Punku, Tiahuanaco is at least 14,000 years old, with estimates of up to 17,000 years by those that have spent decades actually on site researching the ruins.

The Clovis people of North America, of whom not very much is known except they were there and then were gone, around 13,000 years ago...

I'm seeing a bit of a pattern with the general timeframes here...all seem to point to a time around the 13,000 years ago mark (+ / -), when things went pretty bad for our ancestors...the rock solid proof (no pun intended) of what caused these problems is being reported all over the mainstream science world.

The impacts from a large space borne body breaking up or multiple separate asteroids that caused massive destruction all over the entire world, is actual mainstream accepted fact, not fringe in the least bit.

Here are some established, mainstream links going into more detail.

Comet May Have Collided With Earth 13,000 Years Ago

Earth Hit by Asteroid 13,000 Years Ago?

Did a comet swarm strike America 13,000 years ago?

This actually happened...all over the world was carnage.

The impacts themselves, the heat and then massive tsunamis and epic 'biblical' floods, the rising of the seas hundreds of feet, the blocking out of much of the sunlight leading to the dying off of plant life...it was probably very nearly an E.L.E for Humanity, and would almost certainly have set back any technological civilisations by thousands of years...if it happened now - right now, our high tech existence would be gone in a flash - literally.

The relatively few survivors would be propelled back to a survival mode low-technology culture, eking out an existence during a mini ice age that would last at least 1000 years.

It wasn't civilisation X or Y, or even Z...it was the entire alphabet that almost went under just 13,000 years ago.



It can't be a coincidence that many ancient civilisations went belly up during this time, including very high tech cultures that built monuments, the ruins of which still defy modern thinking about human life and technical ability during the time period.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by St Udio

Well those excavations and studies of the finds were of all the 'savage' communities which surrounded the very few 'Oasis' of purely Magical people...
these communities of people that lived in a Magic Paradigm were scattered all over the planet but were surrounded by the crude & vulgar people that bred like rats


Touche'

Or they were just imaginary.....

Parry, riposte and disarm

only in your personal Belief System are the Magical People Oaius' imaginary..
you deliberately exclude them from being actual because academics do not allow that theory to have merit in their belief system


how did it come about that persons like Viktor Frankenstein resided in a castle far above & remote from the villagers?
that--- my kind sir is an example of a Archtype that has lived throughout the Ages...
small enclaves of Special/or magical persons surrounded by common villagers who do not understand those which are ensconsed in their lofty abodes

Originally posted by St Udio


only in your personal Belief System are the Magical People Oaius' imaginary..

you deliberately exclude them from being actual because academics do not allow that theory to have merit in their belief system

No I don't believe in the above because there is no evidence of it and lots of evidence of the life style I pointed out

how did it come about that persons like Viktor Frankenstein resided in a castle far above & remote from the villagers?

Because somebody made up a story based on a real, rather evil guy

that--- my kind sir is an example of a Archtype that has lived throughout the Ages...
small enclaves of Special/or magical persons surrounded by common villagers who do not understand those which are ensconsed in their lofty abodes

Well quite fantastic, good luck finding one of those abodes - or did these lofty people live in slighty better caves?

Originally posted by stevemac1
My interest is the ancient stonemasonry of south america and egypt. I became a contributor and started a thread at the JREF site asking for explainations as to how the masonry at Puma Punku and other similar places was manufactured.

I was in that thread and you were given the explanations, i.e. that the technology available to the masons at Puma Punku was quite capable of producing the masonry.
However you just kept repeating your opinion that "All sorts of claims are made for the production of masonry at Puma Punku, but non of them actually make sense." and never specified these claims or produced evidence that they do not make sense.

Hopefully you will tell this forum what is impossible to produce at Puma Punku.

As for your simple point of "Why isn't an experienced, practical, time served, skilled stonemason ever consulted"", the simple reply is: Where is your evidence that experienced, practical, time served, skilled stonemasons were not consulted?
Of course consulting is not really needed because archaeologists actually did experiments using the technology avaiible to the Puma Punku masons.

Originally posted by MysterX

But there is evidence to support the very thing happening as i have said Hanslune..frankly i wouldn't have said there was solid proof of the events of around 13,000 years ago, if there wasn't any.

Seriously, 13,000 years ago is no time at all..relatively speaking.

Gobleki - Tepe in Turkey is estimated to be 13,000 - 15,000 years old.

Currently the estimate is around 10,000 BCE

Puma Punku, Tiahuanaco is at least 14,000 years old, with estimates of up to 17,000 years by those that have spent decades actually on site researching the ruins.

Nope, Posnansky was very wrong - you might want to look at the method he used on that very disturbed site to come up with that estimate. Modern date shows 500 AD

[quote]The Clovis people of North America, of whom not very much is known except they were there and then were gone, around 13,000 years ago...

there about on the current data but I see more dates towards 12,500

I'm seeing a bit of a pattern with the general timeframes here...all seem to point to a time around the 13,000 years ago mark (+ / -), when things went pretty bad for our ancestors...the rock solid proof (no pun intended) of what caused these problems is being reported all over the mainstream science world.

As noted only the Clovis are close to fitting into your theory and they were just a nomadic culture

The impacts from a large space borne body breaking up or multiple separate asteroids that caused massive destruction all over the entire world, is actual mainstream accepted fact, not fringe in the least bit.

Here are some established, mainstream links going into more detail.

This actually happened...all over the world was carnage.

In North America there was a disruption probably more damage was caused by the younger dryas that occurred between about 10700 to 9,500 BCE

It can't be a coincidence that many ancient civilisations went belly up during this time, including very high tech cultures that built monuments, the ruins of which still defy modern thinking about human life and technical ability during the time period.

The Clovis were a culture at best of nomadic hunter-gathers, what effect if any your proposal had was probably not as influential as the younger dryas cooling period.

You might look at research for the period of time you are interested in for sites in the Middle East/fertile crescent

reply to post by realitycheck1


Unfortunately I lent out my copy of JPP's books many years ago - it might be interesting to see if he did consult stone masons. I'll see if the Uni has one.

Originally posted by stevemac1
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Thanks for your offer, but I'll wait for a while.

I was finally directed to this davidpratt.info...

It does not say anything more or less than what I stated and in fact reinforces what I said.

Is it the Protzen quote ‘to obtain the smooth finishes, the perfectly planar faces, and exact right interior and exterior angles on the finely dressed stones, they resorted to techniques unknown to the Incas and to us at this time’." that reinforces what you said?
David Pratt is not a stonemason or an archaeologist. His web page is good but there are a couple of statements of personal incredulity. He prefixes that quote with "more advanced tools were also required". However Protzen is interested in the use of stone tools. So the more advanced tools are the bronze tools that were available to the masons.
David Pratt does make big mistakes in "copper tools would make no impression on granite...".
Puma Punku is made of andesite and sandstone blocks. The tools wuold have been bronze. Copper and bronze tools can make impressions on granite, andesite and sandstone by splitting them or grinding.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by benrl

 

Exactly, I have no problem believing that the whole of history has repeated itself in cycles. What would be left of our civilization in 10,000 years if we were to destroy ourselves now. Not much I'd say, except the odd anomoly like we find now.

And yet we find artifacts from man over a million years old. We find dinosaur bones, we find cave drawings. Lots of evidence of our time here on earth, just none to suggest that another group came before us. I think that our society should it ever come to end would leave gobs of evidence that we were here. Plastic does not decompose. The people of the future will certainly know of our existence because we will leave lots of evidence of ourselves behind.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by TheProphetMark

Despite that the artifact is available to any researcher for analysis, not many of them decided to test it!

Instead, the artifact has been categorized as a hoax - without any examination.

Here's another clue that the plug is a hoax, I overlooked this the first time I read it. Does anyone else notice the contradiction?

104 flags = 104 people that I pray to God have never served as a juror in a murder trial, or any trial for that matter. Since my post was conveniently overlooked by those of you who are questing for "the truth", I'll go ahead and answer the question for you.

First sentence- "not many"

Second sentence- "without any"

HUGE difference folks! Wake up and get your brains out of la la land jeez!!!

Originally posted by Hanslune


The Bosnians 'pyramids' are not accepted because they aren't, fairly simple actually

Who is not accepting them? Or more correctly, who is telling the masses not to accept them? A handful of puppets at the CIA and SIV (Vatican Secret Service)?

Umm, hundreds of millions of people around the world are accepting these for exactly what they look like - ancient pyramids.

I would stop wasting your time trying to convince people the emperor is wearing clothes, and move onto the next piece of disinformation.

reply to post by TheProphetMark


It could easily be an advanced civilization of humanoids in our distant past who died off, or where killed off and the survivors of that cataclysm only have faint species memories of what may have happened. Hell to be honest with you, any human civilzation that far in our past would be just as alien as a grey in my opinion. And it could also be a colony of humanoids landed on this planet an epoch ago and they died off or was destroyed and what is left is their survivors (us) or it could have been the neanderthals.

What secret is so horrible that you would kill to keep secret? Anything that brings shame to something you done that no one can forgive. What if the Neanderthals where the "smart" ones and had abilities (they where strong) that help build many of the ancient megaliths on this planet. We came to this planet it wasn't ours and centuries later we warred with these individuals to the point that we destroyed each other and memories of what the conflict was about. If the truth was that we humans like us don't belong on this planet and it wasn't ours, how would people react to that. And on top of that find out that the ones that it belonged too where wiped out by us.

This is what I have been saying for a very, very long time.

But no, aliens are the fantastical idea that sells so people run with that.

Everything points to a preexisting advanced (advanced as in... we think we are so advanced, so just at the same level we are at if not greater) civilization.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


Hi there. New poster, and professional geologist here.

Actually these two last pictures do show natural formations.

- The first one looks like simple silt/clay layers that deposited horizontally (and remained horizontal). The external rectangular shape is just only the shape given by the people who excavated the outcrop. Which is why it looks man-made.

- The first one shows a bed of conglomerates that was tilted by tectonic forces. Conglomerate are sedimentary rocks that typically for in/around mountain chains. I suspect that the angle of this layer coincides with the slope of the hill.

reply to post by Xaphan

Originally posted by Xaphan
I find this subject very interesting. The fact that there could have been advanced ancient civilizations is very intriguing. There's just one thing I want to know, though... why do so many of you say that the government is hiding the evidence? Why would they care if we knew about ancient civilizations having advanced technology? It just doesn't make sense that they would try to hide something like this, when it wouldn't be a big deal if we knew.

Same goes with the human giants theory. What difference would it make if we knew that there were giant humans roaming the earth at one time? I don't see how it would benefit the government to keep that suppressed.

I'm not a debunker, and I'm not challenging your theories. I'm just genuinely curious about the reasoning behind the government conspiracy aspect.

The truth is impossible to understand to those who are deceived. You've already seen the answers to your questions but you thought they were lies. You are a victim of mind control and the sooner you realize that the better. Want to know the truth? Stop believing the lies. The two are incompatible. This is WHY this doesn't make any sense to you. Don't make the same mistake I did and wait until you are old to figure this stuff out.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The "Bosnian Pyramid" is extremely unlikely to be a natural formation.

Look at this mathematically, it's sides point to the cardinal directions with high accuracy?
It's angles are 45 degrees exactly from the base to the apex?

It's exactly 1/3rd taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza? Like we are talking exactly within 2 decimals rounded?

Did you take the time to check these "facts" yourself?

- As shown by another poster who used Google maps/Earth, the shape of the structure is a not a square-based pyramid, more like a triangular-based pyramid

- I agree that the north and east slopes indeed seem to be pretty much facing north and east. A contour map would help assess the accuracy of this observation.

- a 45 degrees slope would mean that the horizontal distance from apex to base is the same a the height of the structure. The height of the hill is c.213m (Wiki). Using the distance-measuring tool in Google Earth, you will see that a 213m long horizontal line stemming from the apex of the hill (towards the East or North) will only take you about halfway down the hill. The actual slope is nearer to 30 degrees, maybe less (depends on where you put the "base".

- The hill is 213m tall. The Great Pyramid of Giza was initially 146.5 metres tall, and is now 138.8 metres tall (Wiki). 213m is not 1/3 taller than 146.6m or 138.8m. A structure 1/3 taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza would be either 195.47m tall (Giza as built) or 180.05m tall (Giza now).

Feel free to point any mistakes in the above.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
The truth is impossible to understand to those who are deceived. You've already seen the answers to your questions but you thought they were lies.

Already mentioned that I wasn't a debunker. And in a roundabout way, you accuse me of being a debunker.

What are you talking about? How can I have seen the answers to my questions when I just asked them this morning? And how can I think the answers were lies when nobody had answered me before I even asked the questions?

Originally posted by MurgatroidYou are a victim of mind control and the sooner you realize that the better. Want to know the truth? Stop believing the lies. The two are incompatible. This is WHY this doesn't make any sense to you.

If I were a victim of 'mind control' I wouldn't be asking questions, would I? People who are brainwashed generally don't question anything. I don't think I've even interacted with you on this forum before, yet for some reason you're acting like I start an argument with you every day

I'm on the fence with this subject, I don't belong to either side. I'm genuinely curious. Don't treat me like a debunker just because I'm asking questions. I'm not trying to debunk your theories. I just wanted to know why the government would bother cover up something like this, and instead of answering a simple question, you get worked up into a lather. Is it because you don't really have an answer?

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Who is not accepting them?

The scientific community which works by consensus

Or more correctly, who is telling the masses not to accept them? A handful of puppets at the CIA and SIV (Vatican Secret Service)?

Yes I'm sure the CIA is dreadfully concerned that there would have been a society in that part of the world that made pyramids.......lol

Umm, hundreds of millions of people around the world are accepting these for exactly what they look like - ancient pyramids.

Belief is strong in the woo community, it doesn't mean they are right now does it?

I would stop wasting your time trying to convince people the emperor is wearing clothes, and move onto the next piece of disinformation.

It's a hill - oh did you take up my suggestion to take a 360 look at the hill? Someone posted a nice image of it showing its not really a pyramid shap and it doesn't align as you said, who would have thought, lol

Originally posted by geolo34
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

Hi there. New poster, and professional geologist here.

Actually these two last pictures do show natural formations.

- The first one looks like simple silt/clay layers that deposited horizontally (and remained horizontal). The external rectangular shape is just only the shape given by the people who excavated the outcrop. Which is why it looks man-made.

- The first one shows a bed of conglomerates that was tilted by tectonic forces. Conglomerate are sedimentary rocks that typically for in/around mountain chains. I suspect that the angle of this layer coincides with the slope of the hill.

Welcome geolo34

Trying to convince believers that they are being lied to and mislead by Osmie and his crew is a hard sell, they don't look at counter-evidence, don't understand science and believe in 'high woo'.