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Stay at home women degrade the status of women in our society.

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posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by Viking9019
So who is supposed to stay at home and keep the other part of our society running? These damn feminists sure are a strange bunch.



That's just the thing that doesn't make sense to me. The feminist tells women, to get out of the house and do something with yourself because taking care of children is not a job. So what do these women do with their children, when they get out of the house to do something? Take their children to other women to take care of them.




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by Starchildren
 


Individual psychology and environment obviously influences life choices for most.

Whilst your environment as a child was experiencing the downside of working mothers, there was also the plus of presumably your mothers intention, as it is your choice also, when possible, to have a career to financially contribute. This is natural, as is the choice of 'feminists', a maligned word due to some perhaps erstwhile well meaning but misguided groups, as well as those well guided and inspirational that have carried the so called flag. Categorising as feminist or non feminist, working or stay at home etc is really just uninsightful generalisation. There are many people that see only in black and white and given such categories, see no further than 'a' v's 'b', and that's where societies issues arised.

Personally, I grew up in a household for the most of my childhood, that seen female as second class and as a female sibling was treated very unfairly whilst maleness was seen as superior and the 'head of the household', women being done as they were told, and as a girl this meant bottom of the pecking order, despite being the most academic and highest acheiving. Obviously this has influenced my life and given first hand knowledge of how the categorising of people created vast injustices.

I am infinitely headstrong and believe in equality in relationships and in society in general. I also won't be categorised as 'feminist' or 'man hater', I have been called both, despite being heterosexual and having healthy relationships.
edit on 19-6-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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Meh, just another silly woman with man issues demmanding women rule the world and men be subjugated because of inequality that hasn't existed for decades (in most 1st world countries).

I couldn't give a care less whether a husband or wife chooses to stay at home and look after the house/kids. It's a practicality matter and has zero to do with raising/lowering the status of men/women. My wife will probably be a stay at home mum when we get around to having kids and as long as she takes care of the household while I work my opinion of her doesn't change in the slightest. My job will be "make money", her job will be "keep house/kids clean". If she's able to find a higher paying job and better career than me, then I'll be the stay at home mum while she brings in the dough. I find it best to just ignore the feminazis and chauvanists. Let them cry over spilt milk while the rest of us get on with enjoying our lives



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:48 AM
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It seems I'm a post modern marxist feminist as opposed to a post modern feminist marxist which are, apparently, completely different things. Twaddle isn't it. Those labels alone demonstrate where the feminist movement has got things so wrong. It has been so busy trying to prove its intellectual legitimacy it forgot what it was trying to achieve in the first place. Votes for women, land ownership rights for women etc etc.

I have a legal book - published in 1912 (it is the legal authority still in Scotland re solicitors' fees). When I look up 'Wife' in the index it says 'See Husband'
So I saw 'Husband' and at that time, if a woman was charged with e.g. breach of the peace it was her husband who was held responsible and had to pay the fine. I said to my partner, 'you can keep your rights and I'll do without the responsibilities.'

It was choice the early advocates of women's equality sought to legitimise. However, with house prices and bills rising to the exorbitant rates that they have, both partners now have to go to work - in most cases there is no choice. When women started working, mostly in part time low paid jobs, men's pay (which used to be regarded as a family wage) came down pro rata.

As a society we're suffering the consequences of most parents having to put their children in care while they both work to pay the silly mortgage rates. Those low paid child carers just don't have the same interest in the well being and development of the child that a parent does. In effect - we are instutionalising children by the age of 3. At 10am everyone gets a drink of juice (whether they want it or not) at 10.30 everyone goes to the bathroom and so on.

Can any woman on this thread state that they are happy to hand their 3 month old baby over to a child-minder? It goes against every maternal instinct.

Society has gone to the dogs because the value of a stable, secure family life has been degraded.





edit on 19-6-2012 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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The flip-side to this is children being brought up by a third party because mum & dad work.

To my mind this more often than not alienates the child from the people who should care most, therefore un-familiarizing the child with love and empathy. For me this is the root of sociopathic behaviour in society. The things that are blamed, such as Gangster Rap, must surely have less effect on on child brought up in the company of 2 happy parents with time to spend with the child.

So, how do we make parents happy, whilst giving them more time to spend with the child? Well i think the 2 go hand in hand.

Traditionally the man is trapped at work 5 days per-week - the woman is trapped at home 7 days per-week. There's not enough jobs for both and even if there were there'd be not enough time for the child as a result. The answer is pretty obvious - unavoidable even!

Job sharing. We must learn to all work a 2 to 3 day week. This creates more jobs; this means someone is always with the child; 2 days per week both parents are with the child. Far less unemployment - far happier children; less delinquents making less adult sociopaths.

Yes, families may earn less, but if this is a 'rule-for-all' so that everyone earns that much less, then the economy may well adjust, inflation may even level out. I certainly hold no expertise in finance, so i may be getting that wrong, but the core of my argument stands in that it creates more free time for people to parent or find themselves. i think the current 'work-ethic' is a dogma that keeps people dumb. 'Work-ethic' is only valid if you truly enjoy and believe in that work - that you'd still do it if you didn't need the cash.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:57 AM
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Another thread attacking feminism...

/Faceplam.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Read the thread and posts first - then face palm, Peoples' misconceived ideas of what feminism should be seeking to achieve has got our society into a whole lot of trouble. The 1980's gave us 'superwoman' - that was a laugh. It meant I had the right to have children - care for the house AND have a full time job as well. Happy was I? No - just exhausted. The devaluation of child rearing is soooo anti women.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by McGinty
 


In an ideal world job share would be possible. The way companies are run, at least here in the UK is at the moment, unlikely.

Today there is talk from the government of keeping schools open from 7am to 8pm to enable parents to work

In an ideal world there would be mother, father and extended family with appropriate roles and working hours and pay, this is a utopian ideal that isn't always possible and the way society has progressed has been anathema to.

There would have to ba a major shift from governments regarding employment laws and opportunities for such an environment to universally exist.
edit on 19-6-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-6-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Read the thread and posts first - then face palm, Peoples' misconceived ideas of what feminism should be seeking to achieve has got our society into a whole lot of trouble. The 1980's gave us 'superwoman' - that was a laugh. It meant I had the right to have children - care for the house AND have a full time job as well. Happy was I? No - just exhausted. The devaluation of child rearing is soooo anti women.



Im facepalming the fact that there are alot of thread's attacking feminism on ATS these days, this one created merely because the poster got upset over what one "feminist" said on a radio - Talk about getting emotional.

Tell me something, If i draw a picture and everyone refuse's to tell me how wonderful it is and how hard ive worked, should i also create a thread ranting about how my work isnt valued!? Or maybe i should just do the mature thing and value my own work without the need of approval from anyone else.

There are many different strands of feminism, the one you came across was obviously a nazi kind of feminism, that doesn't warrant you to make a thread on ATS screaming about how "under valued" you are, What is this going to change!?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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You perfectly described how society should be like, family helping each other out any way they can, and that takes REAL work to make right.
edit on 19-6-2012 by _Phoenix_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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I think that for the most part, people are just doing what they need to do to keep the family going.
soIme women need to work to bring the cash in, while for others, it's just not feasible, or not needed and the household does run much smoother if there's someone home taking on that section of life.
there is nothing wrong with either. And, I've been both. Got to tell ya, after years of being a stay at home mom, that first job seemed like a vacation!!


the only ones I see degrading the human species, or any part of it, are those that are opting not to do what they need to be doing and those that are so money/power hungry that they'll stomp on anyone and everyone to get more.

feminism was brought on by real inequalities which resulting in the very real problem of many women and children living in proverty. women and children are still the biggest group filling the ranks of the poor. since, well,men die, men run off with their secretaries, men become alchoholics and drink up the rent money....men are just as apt as women are to fail to do what is needed!! and when that happens, either by the man or the women, it's up to the other to pick up the slack and carry on. society should give them equal opportunity, equal support, and a fair wage structure. not penalize them, throw roadblocks into their paths, and sit judgementally against them if they decide that is what they need to do to keep the family on solid ground!

the children are the greatest resource that we have, and those who are raising them, teaching them, caring for them are giving us one of the greatest contributions!! and it is work!!



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by McGinty
 


I would love if everyone could work 2-3 days a week and have enough money to enjoy life. (maybe in the future robots can help us out here, before they turn on us for treating them as slaves of course haha
)

I'm sure when most of us were kids, we didn't expect to sign up for a all work and no fun life.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by McGinty
 


I would love if everyone could work 2-3 days a week and have enough money to enjoy life. (maybe in the future robots can help us out here, before they turn on us for treating them as slaves of course haha
)

I'm sure when most of us were kids, we didn't expect to sign up for a all work and no fun life.



The funny thing is, after ww2 they were predicting that eventually everyone would work part time. Ahh, it would be lovely



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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im glad that women are finally working,enough mooching off of the man.even though they lack the superior intelligence of the male species,we should still pay them a fair wage,like that of a burrow .i let mine out of her cage at least 3 hours a day,as i find it helps both productivity and morale,the two go hand in hand really.example,mine just left to toil for the next 8 hours,i petted her and gave her a few words o encouragement,now she is gone and i will be going back to bed.i win.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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Feminists tend to pay more tax than women who "stay at home" (notwithstanding stay-at-home feminists - you know what I'm trying to say).
More tax payers, less babies, more single parent families, more individual spending, more mortage spending, desensitization through indoctrination into "the man's world".

There is a whole lot of stuff but mostly I think it's the first thing.
Here's a discussion point - "If our goal is to double the tax base while guiding modern culture and it's effect on the family unit, what steps would be necessary to begin this process of change?".
edit on 19-6-2012 by trouble_every_day because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


That's a really bad analogy. Your picture doesn't have repercussions on the well being of the rest of society. The derision and discouragement of stay at home women does. True feminism wouldn't deride women for staying at home - it would say value this role for playing its part in developing and maintaining a cohesive and fully functioning society. Without these women...well...we'd end up with dysfunctional mess we live with now.

The promotion of 'women's rights' has actually equated to the dismantling of the family unit and a boom in the social services industry. (Btw - I don't care which parent tends house and home - as long as its one of them - and not some underpaid child-minder).
edit on 19-6-2012 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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Lol at all the people who only read the title and not your post.
Considering all the "non work" you do it's amazing how much work you get done.
There is something to the old saying that you can have a house but it takes a woman to make it a home and that it a beautiful something indeed.

What many people are missing today is no sense of home or place. I remember back when I was a kid over 40 years ago both my grandparents lived in the same house for the entire time I knew them. Part of being rooted in a community is having that sense of home - a nurturing environment where women through the "non work" they do made a home comfortable and inviting.

My mother was a stay-at-home mom for the majority of the time I was growing up and it's saddening to think of all the children who if they get sick at school, can't just call their mothers to come pick them up because they can't leave work.

Some work is without price and what women can do in the role of homemakers is a special thing indeed. It saddens me to think of how few "homes" are left in the US. Everyone is so caught up just trying to make ends meet they have no time to create that special environment that we call homes.

It's not greed or the radical feminists that have created this condition, it's the increasing costs of living with added inflation that make it harder or even impossible for mothers to stay at home. This has had serious consequences on our society and the kind of people in it.

For all the non work you do I give you my highest regards.
Your family is very fortunate to have all the things you provide

eta: The woman who gave birth to me never had a "career", yet she was a doctor when I was sick, a chauffeur when we needed to go places, a housekeeper who by keeping a clean house kept us from getting sick, who by cooking good meals made sure we were well nourished. She was greater than any career title one could get, she was a Mother.
edit on 19-6-2012 by Asktheanimals because: added comment



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:41 AM
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No time to read full thread, but just want to say I applaud all stay at home mums (or dads).

The benifit they give to society is immeasurable.

In my view they are so important the government should pay them a wage for doing it.

Would that satisfy the narrow minded fems ?
edit on 19-6-2012 by bigyin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by phroziac
I dated one of these women for a while. Cant stand em. I kicked her to the curb when it became obvious she wasnt lookin for a job. It was kinda funny though.

Why should i work my life away while you do nothing? I make double the wages id get at walmart. I also work 80 hours a week and never go home. Id rather we both worked at freakin walmart.


I'm a stay at home woman, and oversee the care of my 82 year old father who can not live alone. I refuse to put him in a strange home. Before that, I originally worked a job at a publishing company, 60hrs a week, and also worked in a Seattle based band for over 10 yrs, then had to give up band work to take care of my mother while still working. Now I stay home. Why? Because NO ONE ELSE in my family would help my parents when they became too old to care for themselves. I'd do it for my sons or my husband...I have to wonder, with an attitude like yours if you have anyone who would do that for you. Especially since you seem to think that people who stay at home DO NOTHING....geezus man, did you read what you wrote first and truly think about it before you hit enter? I also work 16-20hr shifts as a graphic designer, a 3d graphic designer, currently editing two books and trying to open an artisan co-op in my end of town, so yea....I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

There ARE some exceptions to most rules. IF you're married, who washes your clothes? Cooks your meals? If you're answer is your spouse, why is it that you can wash them yourself when you're single, but amazingly you suddenly lose the ability to do it when you get married? If a woman is busting her ass for 15 hours on a computer doing consulting or editing a godamned book, from a HOME OFFICE, to help feed YOUR ass YOU WILL wash them yourself and LOVE it. Hell, MAYBE she'll even HELP you cook dinner and do dishes later. IF you're nice to her.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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im glad that you look after your family , i bet they are all better off for it !

now where are all these women who think that men dont do anything around the house !

Im 29 and have been living with my girlfriend for 8 years , we dont have kids , but I do the exact same housework she does, we do it together at the same time so it gets done quicker !

I wash , I cook , I clean , I walk my dogs , tidy the garden all of those things.
Guess im just a male who sees a chore as a chore and not brand it as male or female orientated.

only things I do more than my girlfriend is maybe get things for her when she cant reach cus she is wee !
or lift heavy things , carry the shopping , but thats not because im male or stronger than her , but because im a gentleman and I love her !



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