Christian doublespeak? Say it ain't so!

reply to post by network dude


I always understood that part of the Biblical account of creation happened before there was dualism. Dualism came into the pic when God created man. Lucifer became Satan out of pride and jealousy. In my mind i listen to what Christ says in very simple terms. Hell yes there is a devil. That old serpent called Satan.

He taught that there are two equal and mutually hostile forces in the world. One is the source of all good, while the other is the source of all evil.

How can GOOD be HOSTILE? That's an oxymoron.

reply to post by network dude


Satan is i n the world and he has had a lot of time to get his game together. Many of the so called Christian churches and denominations are satanic. Since I woke up I have not found any church among the several denominations that I have tried that I trust. They are all asleep.

Satan first sought to deny that Christ came in the flesh. Over time he has refined his tactic to include fooling people about who Jesus is and what Christianity is. It is true that a fake church (the satanic RCC) had control of the Bible. But understand that this is all being led by fallen angels. There are rules that even they must follow and the word of God has been preserved but even now is under constant attack. . The world is full of mystery and deception. It all leads back to this truth that Satan is at war with God and we are the pawns. Satan wants to take down as many of us as possible.

Jesus Christ is God. He is also the son of God. He was not created, but he was a party to all creation. I know that much of Christianity sounds crazy because of the matrix of lies that we have been saturated with by this satanic system. Churches teach that satan is bound and that he has no power. This is a lie. Satan rules the world for this age. He is the god of this world for now and he operates with few restrictions. If you begin to come out of the satanic deception you will experience psychological warfare.

reply to post by network dude

A Bridge to Light's claim that Christianity derived its belief in dualism from Zoroastrianism is untrue both historically and theologically.

Not a bad claim, I've made it a gazillion times.

I should probably start writing books.

Originally posted by Erbal
It's a slippery slope of double standards and hypocrisy.

Amazing that you can get that tiny little bit out of it, yet you miss the big picture. Hypocrisy was the point! I have been here a while. I have been on the receiving end of religious venom, fire and brimstone to the point that I thought I was a Christian, but there is no way in HELL I want to associate myself with the ones here flashing that banner.

One of the big things we are accused of is "doublespeak". I suppose because when someone asks specifically about one of the few things we are obligated not to discuss, we don't answer or deflect the question. We even say we are doing it, but that is usually missed.

Then we get the worst kind of Christian come around. The super Judging Christina. One who feels as if he alone knows Jesus Christs will and cleverly hides that under the guise of quoting scripture. He tells us we are worshiping the devil. Then one of the same types of "Christians" has a site that denies duality. I find that a bit odd. Even dare I say it, Hypocritical!

So the whole "Hate" thing is way over the top. I admit it. But why else would an entire site be dedicated to the destruction of multiple other groups beliefs. Is it because that is what Jesus would have done?

Originally posted by Shoujikina

He taught that there are two equal and mutually hostile forces in the world. One is the source of all good, while the other is the source of all evil.

How can GOOD be HOSTILE? That's an oxymoron.

In a war, there are two sides. Both fight. One side is right as far as the ones fighting are concerned.
Both fight. Both are Hostile towards the other. It's called war. I here it all the time right here. The war between good and evil. ( I think it's even referenced in the Bible)

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Erbal
It's a slippery slope of double standards and hypocrisy.

Amazing that you can get that tiny little bit out of it, yet you miss the big picture. Hypocrisy was the point! I have been here a while. I have been on the receiving end of religious venom, fire and brimstone to the point that I thought I was a Christian, but there is no way in HELL I want to associate myself with the ones here flashing that banner.

One of the big things we are accused of is "doublespeak". I suppose because when someone asks specifically about one of the few things we are obligated not to discuss, we don't answer or deflect the question. We even say we are doing it, but that is usually missed.

Then we get the worst kind of Christian come around. The super Judging Christina. One who feels as if he alone knows Jesus Christs will and cleverly hides that under the guise of quoting scripture. He tells us we are worshiping the devil. Then one of the same types of "Christians" has a site that denies duality. I find that a bit odd. Even dare I say it, Hypocritical!

So the whole "Hate" thing is way over the top. I admit it. But why else would an entire site be dedicated to the destruction of multiple other groups beliefs. Is it because that is what Jesus would have done?

That venom stems from the deep-seeded fear that they may be wrong or have doubts. When the ego is threatened, it lashes out violently towards others like a beast. This is how most of us behave when we lose control of ourselves. If one's belief is totally cemented, then they would not ever harm another, in any way. They would speak their peace, openly, lovingly, and not simply toss around Bible quotes, but actually think for themselves. A proper Christian is one that has tamed his ego and has become selfless (like Jesus), but oddly enough, such a concept is not typically taught to them in that way. Ego liberation is taught in other schools of religion/philosophy, but "hardcore" Christians are too afraid to learn and apply another religion's teachings. Fear, fear everywhere.

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." - Yoda

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by DeathbecomesLife

 

First, I want you to know that I gave you the star but it was by accident, I would take it back if I could.

As you avoided the debate about duality and an important point brought up by the post just before yours, you turn the conversation from duality to reproductive rights? Who are you, Kirk Cameron?

No, I briefly interjected without comment a link to where some one could find something they were looking for.

I did not comment so as to not disturb the flow of the conversation.

reply to post by randyvs


There has always been dualism. Light is nothing without dark to compare it to.
Even before the Bible, Good and evil existed. I think it's a by-product of free will.

God gave us free will and we have always chose to either do the right thing, or to do what benefited us the most.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

What do you think? Is God omnipotent, or is there a devil, or is there some way both can be correct?

Yes. I believe that there is one God. That God is omnipotent and omnipresent.

Yes, in my view of the Almighty, there is a way that both the devil and the omnipotent God can both exist...

In my opinion, everybody sees God in a different way. This is necessary in order to understand that God, because some 'manifestations' of God are incompatible with others' cultures or beliefs.

The following expresses my own belief...

The Egyptians needed Thoth and Osiris. The Christians need Jesus, and the Muslims need Islam. Each of these religions worship the exact same God (well, all of them admit there is only one God.) Some peple need God to be broken up into many different manifestations, each which are easier to relate to when thinking about God in a different way - which some call polytheistic religions. Christianity has the Trinity, which consists of a human face needed to make God less abstract, and two other parts. Hinduism consists of many parts, each different manifestations of the same God.

Now, how does the Almighty guide people to do what is right? None of us know what His divine plans are, but I believe that 'goodness' plays a part. Some people respond better to praise, others to punishment. Some people are driven by reward, others by fear. Heaven, virgins, eternal mansions are found in many religions for those who are driven by reward. Fear, hell, exclusion, devil are there for those who need this type of driving force in order to do what is right.

All of these are different 'tools' or 'manifestations' of the one God. Each of these affects people in different ways. If you think about it, the Devil has made more people do good things (out of fear) than bad things. The number of people who have specifically done bad things as a direct consequence of the exsistence of a devil are few and far between. So if the exsistence of a Devil makes people do the right things and good things (albeit through fear of that devil), logically, it must be on the same side as God, no? A tool of God, so to speak.

So yes, an omnipresent God and the devil can coexist.

reply to post by Saurus


I agree with you. I think that is a Deist view. One god with many names/manifestations. That is the view a lot of the US founding fathers also had, and a lot of those guys were also Masons. I don't think it is quite the same thing as believing in dualism where Satan and God are opposed to one another, but I can see how describing an evil manifestation of God could be a useful teaching tool. I disagree with it, but I can see how it could happen and be compatible with a Deist view, and be misinterpreted as a literal devil.

I still have to laugh at the idea of eternal damnation though. What kind of evil prick takes a 70 year scorecard and assigns an eternity of torture?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

I still have to laugh at the idea of eternal damnation though. What kind of evil prick takes a 70 year scorecard and assigns an eternity of torture?

By definition, such a being could not be considered 'loving'.

Furthermore, the 70 year scorecard is compounded by the fact that everyone is not given equal upbringing or opportunities.

Some children come from homes having strong moral and social virtues. Such kids are much more likely to do what is good naturally throughout their lives.

Others have a much greater challenge. Kids from abusive parents, or children of overly strict religious fanatic parents, are much more likely to rebel, commit serious crimes or 'sins' such as murder and other atrocities.

At least, if a Grand being was going to commit some people to eternal damnation, at least they should all have an equal chance!

Originally posted by getreadyalready

I agree with you. I think that is a Deist view. One god with many names/manifestations.

I suppose if I analyze my own beliefs, I'm about half-way between deism and panentheism (panentheism, not pantheism).

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Greensage

 

Ok, can't resist.

Are you Christian?

If God is omnipotent, then what the hell does a "revolt" mean? Do you understand the term omnipotent?

If you believe in an omnipotent being, that being knows everything and is capable of everything, all the time, and a revolt doesn't happen without God allowing it to happen, and it ends when God decides it will end. The very idea of some power struggle would mean you just don't comprehend the term omnipotent. There is no power struggle, there is only God! If you believe in an omnipotent and omnipresent being, there is no place, and no time ever in eternity where God is not present. There isn't a time or a place ever in eternity where God is not completely in control.

What if GOD is the total sum of all things in the universe? From my point of view part of god is having a personality dissorder and part of the problem is the spirits in human form that have a problem with their ego and cannot live in harmony with each other. The part of god/spirits that has reached the next level are trying to recruit us to work for the good of all that exists and I even think the whole itself is working for it.

Think if god as One persons brain. Every person is a braincell in that brain. Fighting other braincells or taking more substance than a cell needs will not help the brain. If a cell becomes a cancer cell god will have to operate to make sure the sickness of ego wont spread to much. Part of the brain is working fine and god have quarantined the part that is not working as well.

Satanists will tell you "We don't worship the Devil, we worship ourselves". And this is highly accurate.

To the Satanist, they themselves are Satan and Jesus, they believe themselves to be God-like.

So who is the "Devil" technically? Well you are, the proverbial "I" is this "Devil" and it is within all of us technically.

I realize this concept is extremely difficult for many people who cannot get outside the box.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by network dude

 

I always understood that part of the Biblical account of creation happened before there was dualism. Dualism came into the pic when God created man. Lucifer became Satan out of pride and jealousy. In my mind i listen to what Christ says in very simple terms. Hell yes there is a devil. That old serpent called Satan.

edit on 19-6-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Yes of course satan exists. He is the symbol for the pride/jealousy and ego that lives more or less in every human. He is the thing you have to overcome to more harmonious/loving and One with everything around you.

reply to post by muzzleflash


That is just too egocentric for me to swallow.

I cannot subscribe to a belief where I am more important than anyone else in the world.

Originally posted by getreadyalready


I still have to laugh at the idea of eternal damnation though. What kind of evil prick takes a 70 year scorecard and assigns an eternity of torture?

I don't believe in an eternity of torture either. I think those not allowed into heaven will at least be given the opportunity to take the black, and join the Order of the Night's Watch.

reply to post by Masonic Light


I agree, and I am reminded of the quote attributed to Marcus Aurelius that I posted on my profile awhile back.

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Yes of course satan exists. He is the symbol for the pride/jealousy and ego that lives more or less in every human. He is the thing you have to overcome to more harmonious/loving and One with everything around you.

According to you, "He is the thing you have to overcome to more harmonious/loving".

This means the ultimate result because of satan's existence is good, right? This is exactly my point - wouldn't you consider satan as a tool of God which leads to an ultimate good ending?

(By this I mean satan as a concept, not satan as a paranormal being.)