College Degree =/= Good Job

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Nobody said one can't do both. It's all about your morals and values and how you were brought up of course...The environment you live in/grew up in has a lot of impact on you too.

When did I ever say this? it's just a basic generalization, but its truthful in many ways.

You started an entire thread about what degrees you thought were useful and which weren't. Obviously you are making a judgement on what is useful to society. You have boiled this all down to money. If it doesn't make money you don't think it's useful.

Still you won't need a masters if you went to harvard business school.

You will if you want more than just a low level job in a fortune 500.

It's up to me how much money I make in the technology industry not the business industry... I don't need a master's degree because I already taught myself half of the master's courses anyway, when I was a teenager teaching myself how to program. I am specialized in many different programming languages. And can move up in the financial industry or the tech industry rather fast.

Good for you, I'm happy for you.

Originally posted by antonia

When did I ever say this? it's just a basic generalization, but its truthful in many ways.

You started an entire thread about what degrees you thought were useful and which weren't. Obviously you are making a judgement on what is useful to society. You have boiled this all down to money. If it doesn't make money you don't think it's useful.

No, you do need to make money thought to live and do things you enjoy and oh yeah pay back your college loans!!!!! so yeah, money is pretty important in life especially to recent college grads/college kids in general.

And all the subjects are useful to learn about. I never said they weren't I said the degrees aren't useful in today's high technology, high financial, high business market.

When capitalism crumbles as it has been projected to do, it will be those with the education and knowledge that the masses will turn to and raise in social level. All of us are capable of doing physical labor, but not all of us are capable of doing the mental labor.
We, as a society, are moving beyond the physical with the help of automation, we're presently in a small stint of social interaction which will give way to a more academic concentration.
Just keep in mind, that knowledge doesn't HAVE to be obtained through the formal education system, although that is usually the easiest and most effecive way to obtain it. Many who have done their own research, their own directed learning, used the internet to expand their horizons but have the basic intelligence level needed to comprehend it will also be in the "elite".
Common sense is not so common anymore, nor has it ever been. Most people who claim to have it, don't. They mistake common knowledge with common sense, they are two different things, but, due to the social level we are presently in, people think they're the same. 68% of the population is "in the middle", the "average" There's about 16% below that and 16% above that. The upper 16% will be in charge. That's much better than the upper 1% and opens the field up considerably.
You can deny it, you can argue against it, but while doing so, sit back and watch it unfold...

Originally posted by unityemissions
The way to get ahead is easy:

Don't go to college and get in debt.
Work from the ground up while you're young.
Take out small loans, get a single credit card, and a simple bank account....build up to excellent credit.
Explore, and figure out what you want to do, do your research, build up a business proposal.
Go to your bank, and present your proposal to them.
Get a small business loan, and become your own boss.

I second this man's observation. It worked for me. I joined the military out of high school, received the VA benefits I earned, am using them to go to college now (I'm 32) after 13 years in service. In those 13 years, I learned decent trade skills (electronics / engineering) built up my credit (I started somewhere in the 300's) and am now in the 740 club.

I am not starting my own business right now, but it seems very likely in the future. After I work and make some decent money and obtain my BS in Information Sciences I very likely will start my own business.

It worked for me and our family. There is some sense in doing it this way.

reply to post by notionfreely


You can learn about any subjects you want, but before blowing $100,000 on a music degree, you might want to re think what you are doing and what you actually want to do with your life. Music can be a great hobby and something you can learn about on your own, once you have no worries about bills!!!!! Or at least a stable career/life...

reply to post by zeeon


What is the 740 club ??

reply to post by zeeon


Military is never useless!

Military is also the third alternative.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


So there will be no capitalism but you will have to work? No thanks. I want to work for myself and my customers/employees/family.

I could care less about anybody else that I don't know personally

Originally posted by jjf3rd77


No, you do need to make money thought to live and do things you enjoy and oh yeah pay back your college loans!!!!!

Not everyone gets a loan to go to college. Most college grads don't get a job in the field they studied anyway, so isn't this a pointless argument in many ways?

so yeah, money is pretty important in life especially to recent college grads/college kids in general.

I didn't say money isn't important. I do think you overstate it's importance in the gran scheme of life. Money isn't going to make you happy if you hate waking up every morning dreading to go to work is it? To you money is the most important thing, so you argue from that point of view.

And all the subjects are useful to learn about. I never said they weren't I said the degrees aren't useful in today's high technology, high financial, high business market.

They aren't useful for making money, that's what you are trying to say.

The problem is these subjects aren't studied for making money for many people. Music as it's studied in college is not how you know it-It's classical. If you study music in college you are either going to teach or you are going to perform classical or jazz music. Art has different fields of study, anyone who goes into art does so to learn techniques that are difficult to learn by yourself. there are many people who make a decent living at art. Many of these subjects are just for the sake of getting a degree since almost every job requires one today (you can argue they don't trult require it, but try getting in the door without experience or a degree, it's very hard).

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
reply to post by notionfreely

 

You can learn about any subjects you want, but before blowing $100,000 on a music degree, you might want to re think what you are doing and what you actually want to do with your life. Music can be a great hobby and something you can learn about on your own, once you have no worries about bills!!!!! Or at least a stable career/life...

yawn.

your pedantics aside, the reason the previous poster told you more students from music backgrounds went into medicine was the increased attention paid to sonic therapies.

my point here is, you're advising folks on education. the problem is, you're doing it on the basis of today's economic hiring preferences. most students today will work in fields which do not yet exist, therefore judging the quality of the education they will receive on today's standards of employment is an unreasonable metric.

if an undergrad degree is costing you 100k, you're getting a rough shake.

reply to post by notionfreely


Seriously, You can get a bachelors at my local college for less than 35K, depends on the subject. A masters will still be less than 50K.

Originally posted by unityemissions
The way to get ahead is easy:

Don't go to college and get in debt.
Work from the ground up while you're young.
Take out small loans, get a single credit card, and a simple bank account....build up to excellent credit.
Explore, and figure out what you want to do, do your research, build up a business proposal.
Go to your bank, and present your proposal to them.
Get a small business loan, and become your own boss.

It doesn't quite work like that nowadays, while the first 4 lines are great the last 2 aren't accurate.

I've started a few small businesses and I've learned early on that banks very rarely loan to you for starting small businesses unless you are backed by either of the following:

1) Proof that the business model works, which requires that you have invested and tested the idea already.
2) Solid partners or investors well known to the bank.

And that is why it's so hard to start small businesses; a bank would much rather deliver a mortgage than a small business loan because in the case of the mortgage WILL get something back if the investment fails. Small businesses can crash, declare bankruptcy and there goes the banks money.

Originally posted by antonia
Not everyone gets a loan to go to college. Most college grads don't get a job in the field they studied anyway, so isn't this a pointless argument in many ways?

Most normal people get loans. There's something of a college loan bubble coming and it will impact us worse than the housing bubble. And why do you think they don't get a job in the field they studied in college? Most likely that field like music or theater wouldn't sustain whatever lifestyle they chose to live or continue living after college!

To you money is the most important thing, so you argue from that point of view.

True Money is a very important factor but I wouldn't say it's the most important thing. I am just lucky that what I love to do, can become a very wealthy career choice. So I can do anything I want to do in life.

They aren't useful for making money, that's what you are trying to say.

Our Own president is still paying back college loans because he majored in political science as an undergrad...Another useless degree that is not going to get your college investment back + profit. That's why we have a college loan debt crisis.

The problem is these subjects aren't studied for making money for many people. Many of these subjects are just for the sake of getting a degree since almost every job requires one today (you can argue they don't trult require it, but try getting in the door without experience or a degree, it's very hard).

Here is what I say to people who want to major in things like Music or theater. If you want to do something in music, why not major in Business as well? Everything is business. We live in a capitalist society. If you know business and fiance you can pretty much start your own company and go from there. Or you can become an executive at a music record label, or create your own theater groupe. There is so much you can do with a business degree and a minor in your passion. That's what I did I was just lucky that computers and business are so tightly interconnected that I basically majored in both.

That's what I did I was just lucky that computers and business are so tightly interconnected that I basically majored in both.

/et.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


My brother is starting at USU this fall and wants to major in Horticulture/Agriculture. Utah State has one of the best Agriculture programs in the Nation.

His hopes are: that in 10 or so years, the future of Agriculture and Farming will need to be rethought and need more innovation.... especially for local communities that want Organic foods and not Monsanto products.

Perhaps acres and acres of land will be replaced with Hi-Rise buildings that have greenhouses and hydroponics.

Should I tell my brother to not waste his time and forget about what hopes he has for something that peaks his interest?


Note: I actually don't disagree with your OP per say.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Should I tell my brother to not waste his time and forget about what hopes he has for something that peaks his interest?

edit on 18-6-2012 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

NO If i were him and in that part of the country, I might have minored in agriculture and majored in business/engineering or went the dual degree route. Business and engineering will be very helpful to him as well. Good luck to him! Even computer science believe it or not as well.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
And why do you think they don't get a job in the field they studied in college? Most likely that field like music or theater wouldn't sustain whatever lifestyle they chose to live or continue living after college!

Again, most jobs require a degree and most of them don't actually care what field you study. So why would you give it much thought if most employers aren't going to?

That's why we have a college loan debt crisis.

No, it's because there are no jobs that pay worth a damn. Of course, we can argue most people who have a degree never needed one to begin with to do that job. That is true, but it's a more fundamental social problem, not really a question of "is that degree useful".

Here is what I say to people who want to major in things like Music or theater. If you want to do something in music, why not major in Business as well? Everything is business. We live in a capitalist society. If you know business and fiance you can pretty much start your own company and go from there. Or you can become an executive at a music record label, or create your own theater groupe.

You don't need a business degree to start a business.

reply to post by antonia


I think y'all are arguing mostly semantics more than anything.

Just an outside perspective.

Originally posted by antonia
Again, most jobs require a degree and most of them don't actually care what field you study. So why would you give it much thought if most employers aren't going to?

all the jobs i applied to required a financial degree/ Computer degree. True most jobs require a degree but they prefer you to actually be majored in whatever industry the company is in!

No, it's because there are no jobs that pay worth a damn. Of course, we can argue most people who have a degree never needed one to begin with to do that job. That is true, but it's a more fundamental social problem, not really a question of "is that degree useful".

It's a social problem because the idiots who chose to major in women's studies never thought about how ununseful that career choice was! So they don't make enough money to pay back their loans. But a lot of people do settle, I can agree with that, and if they settle, it may have something to do with their college choices...

You don't need a business degree to start a business.

Very true.