The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

reply to post by stanguilles7


No.. I'm just saying how ludicrous it is to compare illegal immigrants with Jay walking..

It's apples and oranges..

The sad part is.. my comparison was closer as they along with illegal immigration are all felony offenses.

Listen.. I don't care about race.. If you want to live here.. Awesome! Glad to hear it!

Fill out the forms, send in the application, get approved and come live in our great nation.. Hell I'll buy you a beer when you get here.. Why not make it a dozen! However if you're going to break our laws right off the bat then I have no use for you.

Originally posted by RobinB022

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by xyankee

 

Today, too many feel they are "entitled" to the "good life" rather than struggle and "earn" it.

I would say risking your life to cross a desert, risking deportation at anytime, living in sub-par conditions, getting paid less than others doing the same job are all examples of "earning" it.

Sitting around and crying that you can't get a job because other people are working to hard...and they were born on the other side of an imaginary line....that seems like an example of thinking you are "entitled"

Our culture is different than those of the illegal Mexicans who are crossing the borders, or who were born on the other side of the imaginary line. Not meaning to sound crude, but the truth is that some or even most of those who are crossing the border 'illegally', were already living in sub-par conditions and as such, this is not unusual for them to live this way here too. Are you suggesting that Americans should lower their standard of living because illegals are hard workers and working for less than minimum wage? Your argument sounds like nothing more than grading on the curve, or lowering the bar on Americans for the immigrants who came here legally.

Immigrate, but do so legally, and adapt to our culture. But to immigrate illegally and expect us to adapt to another is simply ridiculous. [Press 1 for English

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Exactly. By his logic we should all get together and have several families move into one home and start pooling our low incomes to make the rent. That way we can all afford to work for $4.00 p/h at the local construction site without health insurance, not pay taxes and use the ER as our general physician when we have a problem. Oh and our kids will probably get a free education too after that.

Outkast, Answer me this one simple question. Do you think you can illegally enter another country and work and that they will have no problem with it? Do you think that our laws are stricter than most countries regarding immigration? Answer honestly and I have not even done any research on this subject.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


And by the way, you keep suggesting that Americans act entitled. Americans are entitled to certain things, like tax forms and proper working conditions(and so many others), and by allowing illegals to work under the table..that simply takes away from what Americans have worked so hard to achieve.

Yes, some Americans have worked very hard for our rights, and so we are entitled to enjoy what we have worked so hard for!!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Have you ever broken a law?

Would you break a law if it meant your family didn't starve to death?

No I have never broken a US Law! I have never been arrested! But you know as well as I that just because everyone is doing it, doesn't make it right.

Others are saying that cuba has a better social net. They can go there. I see on this site everyday how bad America is and how we are the devil, why the heck do they want to come here is beyond me?! The only thing I can think of is well, what our President has just done! Giving illegals free passes that no other country in their right mind would do.

In the middle east they chop off your hands if you take an apple from a fruit cart. I much prefer that system of punishment. If they are coming here to feed their families and not bringing their families here. They are not contributing to the US economy. They are stealing! Another crime!

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

They are here illegally. Plain and simple.
No different then the guy that robs someone for an income.

I don't think anyone has contested that they are here illegally? That was conceded in the headline of the OP. Funny that word thus becomes the fallback position.

As for your second contention of their presence being no different than "the guy that robs someone for an income" ....I see no factual basis for the comparison.

Is the person exceeding the speed-limit the same as "the guy that robs someone for money"?

...If so...How?

Because every actual economic/financial analysis I have seen clearly shows that their presense is good for local and national economies. Illegal immigrants simply supply labor in the margins of domestic labor demand where domestic workers will not occupy and the government has interfered with free-market labor supply and demand with politically driven restrictions on legal immigration.

So "rob someone for money" seems a completely disconnected analogy in the context of evidence and actual analysis. They benefit the economy.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Others are saying that cuba has a better social net. They can go there.

?????

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
In the middle east they chop off your hands if you take an apple from a fruit cart. I much prefer that system of punishment.

Then maybe you should move there? Iran seems a welcoming place....

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I'm not going to jump into the whole who works better polemic, but I do know for a fact that American's with their broken down visa and immigration system, NEED illegal immigrants to do their labor jobs for them.

Because they do not have a well thought of immigration mechanism that makes things easy for immigrants, rather it makes it very difficult and therefore forcing many people to go through the illegal route. A lot of illegals do not jump the fence, they come here through tourist visa's or student's visa's and aren't given the chance to become residents or have work permits so they opt to overstay their visa's. However, American's can learn a lot from Canadians who welcome immigrants and make it easy for them to access their country and get work permits.

Now there are a lot of short sighted people who complain and rant and say things like: why do they have to come here in the first place etc etc...but the facts are with a median age of 35 for men and 38 for women, the US needs a constant supply of fresh immigrants, just like the majority of first world countries out there, and this need is being fuelled by those families who are already here, they see that its difficult to find young laborers to pick fruits for example so they call on their families back home to come here illegally to get work that American's themselves won't do.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

They are here illegally. Plain and simple.
No different then the guy that robs someone for an income.

I don't think anyone has contested that they are here illegally? That was conceded in the headline of the OP. Funny that word thus becomes the fallback position.

As for your second contention of their presence being no different than "the guy that robs someone for an income" ....I see no factual basis for the comparison.

Is the person exceeding the speed-limit the same as "the guy that robs someone for money"?

...If so...How?

Because every actual economic/financial analysis I have seen clearly shows that their presense is good for local and national economies. Illegal immigrants simply supply labor in the margins of domestic labor demand where domestic workers will not occupy and the government has interfered with free-market labor supply and demand with politically driven restrictions on legal immigration.

So "rob someone for money" seems a completely disconnected analogy in the context of evidence and actual analysis. They benefit the economy.

When they turn a 12-15 Dollar per hour skilled labor job into a $4 per hour job with no benefits it certainly does take a job and income away from someone else.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I totally agree. I am an American, and I seem to be one of the few people in favor of Obama's new immigrant amnesty.

However, some Americans hate immigrants because they think they should. Example: my mother. She does not work. She doesn't need to work. My father provides for the family. My mom has been out of the job market for 20 years. Work isn't something she thinks about. However, she is against "all them immigrants". Her view is that they "don't belong here". It's not racism, per say. It's just ignorant entitlement. "We were born here." I try to explain to her that our ancestors were immigrants to this country. She somehow thinks "that was different" (it wasn't). Maybe she picks up the attitude from those who DO feel threatened. But she also complains about them speaking Spanish in public. Like, actual families of Hispanics at Wal-Mart or the mall, talking Spanish to themselves. "They need to learn English. We're in America!" I asked her, "Mom, if we all took a family trip to Germany or France, do you think we would walk around speaking German or French to each other? No. Even if we spoke those languages, as a family we would talk to each other in our own language." She shut up.

I don't always understand people. All I know is, I'm through trying to reason with them.

From the perspective of an immigrant who is becoming a citizen in 2013, and has been a resident of this country since I was 6 years old(over 15 years) I see where Americans are coming from and agree with them. Kick out all illegal immigrants, except immigrants who have been here equal to or longer than they have been in their original country of citizenship and can provide proof.

Honestly, this shouldn't even be a discussion, they are here illegally, they are not playing by the rules; kick them out.

The more people that are here, the less chance you have of a positive opportunity; the people taking away positive opportunities are breaking the rules and are being allowed to play the same game you are. It sounds selfish, but you need to prioritize if you expect to succeed in life, if you don't put yourself ahead of everyone else you're setting yourself up for failure. First comes everything having to do with you, then comes everyone else. Same idea behind the immigration issues, first comes everyone who lives here, then comes them. Since we are in economic instability we should be worrying about re-establishing the economy before we worry about helping illegals or other countries for that matter.

This is not an argument, just another topic to divide and conquer people whose heads are not working correctly. Focus on what's real guys, that's my best advice.

Is it because they don't pay taxes?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


My dollar says you are either Hispanic or related to hispanic people or a troll?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Your post is total rubbish and bull$h_t, where are your sources for these outrageous claims, what experience do you have with illegals ? As usual you are just spouting rubbish to justify what Obama did. Go schill somewhere else

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
After reading the reply after reply in immigration threads from American citizens that are very against immigrants (some with vile hatred)...I think I know what the problem is.

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them. But they can't admit that...because of their American ego...so they just go with that these immigrants are criminals, stupid, and lazy....even though it just isn't true.

These immigrants come here to WORK their asses off to provide a better life for their children. Their children see all their parents have done for them and in turn they WORK their asses off to become successful in this country. They come with one goal...to WORK.

The Americans in this immigration threads that are complaining about these immigrants are just scared because they know they can't compete with them...because in fact they are the lazy ones...they want the job that gives them everything for doing nothing...they want to get paid a ton of money for little work...they aren't willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life...they want it NOW and they want it for THEMSELVES.

Immigrants aren't lazy, they risk their life in most cases just to get here. They'll take a job that gives them little for doing more work in a day than most people do in a week. They just want to get paid a little money to feed their family (regardless if they live here or in another country). They are willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life. They will do without now, so their children and family can have better later.

What we see here is the difference between two types of people, this subgroup of Americans that hate immigrants because they feel ENTITLED to be successful just because they are a citizen. And we have the immigrants who feel DETERMINED to be successful despite if they are a citizen or not.


That is what it all comes down to...it isn't about breaking the law...it isn't about speaking a different language (well...maybe for some)...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.

I can agree on some of these points, however what you need to realizes that immigrants DRIVE WAGES DOWN! Plain and simple. They do not complain that they aren't getting benefits, or that they don't get a raise. They are just happy to get a job. Therefore employers see this and can literally screw over the hard working American citizen. What you want benefits? Oh well just hire some Mexican immigrant. What you want a raise? Well Mexicans work for cheaper.

Originally posted by 0ptw0


This is not an argument, just another topic to divide and conquer people whose heads are not working correctly. Focus on what's real guys, that's my best advice.

Yes it is here just to cause discord.. this op is trolling!

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Oh I see...you are going to use the "evil people are trying to kill us" argument.

No more than you use the "everyone just wants to be nice" theory.

The truth lies in between. There are, yes, many good decent Mexican people who simply want a better life; I have never said otherwise. There are also, however, some people who do want to hurt others. And they are doing it as we speak. For you to deny that anyone is of that mentality shows a complete and utter lack of reality in your reasoning.

Now, if you can enter enough reality to admit that, yes, there are bad people in the world, then the question becomes how do we keep the bad people out and let the good people in? I have an idea! Let's find out who they are first! Yeah, I know that all goes against the puppies and happiness utopia you apparently live in, but in the real world, it's not a bad idea.

And I mean both borders. If not a fence, then armed patrols. But I do like a fence. It worked for China.

Um...no...it's not illegal to get recieve compensation that is lower than minimum wage...many small business owners have no to little profit as their compensation in the first 5 years...they aren't charged with a crime for paying themselves lower than minimum wage.

Oh, so we're switching arguments now? Minimum wage never did apply to self-employment (which includes private corporate ventures). I thought we were talking about jobs.

Just so we both know what we are discussing, are you saying that we need to stop looking for jobs and start working for ourselves? Start our own corporations? All 300 million of us?

Talk about fantasy...

So you feel ENTITLED.

I feel entitled to what is mine, yes. That is, I will concede, a technically correct definition of entitlement, but obviously not the definition being used by the majority in this thread. "Entitlement", by that definition, means being entitled to something by the very virtue of existence, not by hard work and perseverance.

If you wish to continue to use the definition you are apparently using in this thread so far, then your entire argument has become "Do Americans have the right to the fruits of their own labors?" I say yes, absolutely, unconditionally, YES!

If, however, you wish to use the negative connotation, then my arguments prevail and yours are nonsensical. It is the Americans who should be reaping the rewards of American ingenuity and determination, and the illegal immigrants who are taking those fruits of another's labors, simply because they wish it and feel entitled to it.

True...but again this is an action of a AMERICAN CITIZEN...not of an "illegal" immigrant.

Meaning they are as guilty of violating laws as the illegal immigrants. Both should reap the rewards of their actions.

What's the argument here?

Again...people bringing up racism...where have I in this thread said anything about race or racism???

Perhaps it is that the argument typically devolves into a discussion of race, so those who argue it assume it will do so again.

But you do bring up racism in one respect: your continual reference to Americans as "lazy". That is a prejudicial argument in itself.

Oh, I didn't know it was a "crime problem" we were worried about...I thought they were stealing jobs

Read this next line carefully...

There can be more than one detriment to an action.

That means that there can be both problems, increased crime and reduced job opportunities, at the same time. Ain't reality amazing?

TheRedneck

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


That's rich.

So, as a democrat you want to give people a free ride and now you're saying they aren't working hard enough? Gee, I wonder why. Didn't see that one coming eh?

One of the things most people over look when it comes to illegal immigrants is how much they contribute to the system with no hope of getting that money back. When they are using a false identity to work int the U.S. they have all the same taxes taken out that the rest of us do, federal and state income tax, SSI, all of it. They will never be able to collect any of that money back. They also pay the same sales taxes that we all do. I know and have worked with many legal and illegal immigrants. These are generally very hard working and dedicated people that are looking for a better life for their children. It is the same thing all of our families came here for. It is true that there are a few that turn to drugs or other illegal activites, and those people are usually not here for very long. I can garantee that there are more Americans involved in illegal activity than any of the immigrants. I even know of a person that had his identity used by an illegal without his knoledge. When the illegal got deported it was discovered that he had opened a savings account with several thousand dollars. The person whose identity was used collected the money. These people put alot at risk, and no they are not taking your job. They apply for the job and are selected according to their skills and abilities. Any company is willing to pay more if the person they are hiring can produce profits for the company. What you are seeing is the free market at work. It is the American Way.

Originally posted by borracho
One of the things most people over look when it comes to illegal immigrants is how much they contribute to the system with no hope of getting that money back. When they are using a false identity to work int the U.S. they have all the same taxes taken out that the rest of us do, federal and state income tax, SSI, all of it. .

Nope.. Try again. Read back a few pages. We already established that most of them work as a self employed contractor and do not get taxes and other with holdings taken out. And another large portion of them just get paid cash under the table.