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The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Sure, as long as there is some sort of system in place to make sure they are signing their real name, to make sure they are not known international terrorists, and to make sure they get deported if they break US law. After all, how easy is it to sign "Elvis Aaron Presley"?

Of course, here's the rub: back during the Reagan administration, Reagan agreed to a compromise with Congress: he granted amnesty to all illegal aliens in the US, and in return was to get a closed border to prevent further undocumented entry. Well, they got their amnesty, but the border is still wide open... that ditch they wade across has probably been walked dry by now.

This time, it's your turn to go first. Close the border, deport the illegal immigrants, and we can set something up.


Oh I see...you are going to use the "evil people are trying to kill us" argument.

And what prevents them from coming into the country right now??? The Canadian border is much easier to cross undetected than the southern border.

I'm sorry...but your boogeyman doesn't scare me and it isn't a justified excuse to streamlining the entry process.

You want to talk about wasting resources...let's talk about patrolling a border to stop families looking for better lives. Of course...the evil drug runners...well if you made it easy to enter legally through the checkpoints...then it would be easier to find the drug runners crossing because you wouldn't have to filter out the non-drug runners.


You do read your posts, right? It's not illegal for one party in an employment agreement to do something, but it is illegal for the other... so it's legal now?


Um...no...it's not illegal to get recieve compensation that is lower than minimum wage...many small business owners have no to little profit as their compensation in the first 5 years...they aren't charged with a crime for paying themselves lower than minimum wage.

The fact is that you feel ENTITLED to earn more...so you won't work for less...even though you are free to do so.


What I am saying is that I, my family, my ancestors, my neighbors... we have all worked long and hard to create this country. Do you really believe it just sprang into existence out of nothing? Since we have put all the work into it, I believe we should get some of the rewards of that labor.


So you feel ENTITLED.

You are perfectly illustrating my point...you FEAR competition from immigrants because you feel ENTITLED because of your geographical birth place.

You just admitted what you are trying to argue against.


Take an accounting course sometime... there are plenty of ways. Money doesn't have to be shown in the "wages payable" account; it can be shown as "maintenance" or "operating expenses" just fine as long as no one is combing through the books. And since it is not in "wages payable", there is no withholding, no FICA, no unemployment, no nothing except a little increase in the profit margin... which is far less than the taxes levied on employment and income.


True...but again this is an action of a AMERICAN CITIZEN...not of an "illegal" immigrant.


Well, yes they are! Not just because of the fiasco I mentioned earlier, but because they want and expect the Federal government to protect the borders of their country. That means checking to make sure, again, that someone doesn't sign "Elvis Aaron Presley", wade across the ditch, rape a few dozen women, kill a couple of men, and plant a bomb to blow up the local high school.


Ah yes..the evil boogeyman argument again.

It's a surprise any of us are alive today with so many evil people wanting to come in and kill us.



There is another way, and that is to make it extremely difficult to enter through any but legal channels. That's like saying that we have too many illegal drunk drivers, so let's just make drunk driving legal.


And how do you do that...build a fence?


The fantasy of locking down the border is never going to happen...it has never happened in history...it isn't going to happen now.

What a waste of resources that would be....and for what....to keep out determined hard workers so our lazy populace doesn't have to compete with them???


I am of that native culture.

So now I guess I am racist against myself? How does that work?


Again...people bringing up racism...where have I in this thread said anything about race or racism???


Your credibility on this subject is dropping by leaps and bounds... if it becomes so easy to enter that someone can enter via a quick lie, how does that solve the crime problem?

I mean, come on, how easy is it for Mahmoud Muhammed Al-Whatever to sign his name as "Sam Jones" and walk on in?


Oh, I didn't know it was a "crime problem" we were worried about...I thought they were stealing jobs




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Illegal immigrants pay Social Security tax, won't benefit
seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time
www.usatoday.com...

Not to mention they pay State and Local taxes, plus real-estate taxes through rentals. Tax everytime they buy groceries or gas...and contribute to social security, medicaire and unemployment insurance in every paycheck while never collecting from those programs.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You know OKS... I don't think my problem is their presence in this country.. My problems are:

the availability (in many cases a higher availability) of entitlement programs meant for American citizens and paid for by American tax payers to illegal immigrants.

The constant use of stolen social security numbers for the purpose of employment and or purchase of property.. Many people's lives have been ruined by this and it's no wonder why.. I've heard of whole work crews using the same social security number on their W2. Identity theft is a Felony... There have been many cases where people's identities have been used by drug dealers in order to purchase supplies for manufacture and a means of distribution.. A lot of innocent people have been convicted of drug trafficking only to find out that someone else under their name perpetrated the whole scenario.

The fact that illegals do nothing to change their status through proper circles.. They don't try for Citizenship or even a simple work Visa which would allow them to work and pay taxes under their own identity.

Because they are illegal there is no way of checking their criminal records upon entry to this country.. For all we know we're letting in truck loads of convicted killers, rapists and thieves into our borders. There is no way of telling if they are using the US for freedom from conviction or even to set up their own criminal enterprise within our borders.. Not to mention the cartel problems that are now plaguing our South West.

I don't mean to sound like the perpetual broken record but.. The language here is English.. Not Spanish, not french, not German, not Chinese, not Japanese, not Korean, not Arabic, not Hebrew, not Latin, not Cambodian etc. etc. et freaking cetera. I don't have a problem with immigrants speaking those languages, but I do have a problem with making no attempt to learn to speak English.. If you're going to be here you need to communicate end of story.

I'm sorry OKS but I do have a problem with Illegal Immigration and for good reason.

But don't take my word for it. Let's see what the federal law states..


immigrants can be classified as illegal for one of three reasons:
entering without authorization or inspection,
staying beyond the authorized period after legal entry, or violating the terms of legal entry.[

46] Section 1325 in Title 8 of the United States Code, "Improper entry of alien", provides for a fine, imprisonment, or both for any immigrant who:[47] enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration agents, or eludes examination or inspection by immigration agents, or attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact. The maximum prison term is 6 months for the first offense and 2 years for any subsequent offense. In addition to the above criminal fines and penalties, civil fines may also be imposed.
edit on 18-6-2012 by DaMod because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-6-2012 by DaMod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Question again:

Are illegal immigrants criminals?

I wonder why you don't want to answer



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



Ah, now we can agree! So just because someone lives in a third-world country called Mexico and hasn't been able to build their own country, they should not be coming to ours... because we want the "best" and obviously that doesn't include those who haven't done much with their own country... and because they are not entitled to come here simply because of where they are born.


Really?

So I guess since the American colonist couldn't fix thier home countries...they shouldn't have come to invade the Americas.

That is really one of the dumbest arguments in this whole immigration debate.

Yes, we DO want the people from any country that is determined to work hard and better themselves...the ones that are fine with the state of their third world country can stay...those that want better are more than welcomed.


Yes, we have. And yes, we will continue to adapt our infrastructure... but the problem is that while we are adapting our infrastructure, the money we need to adapt it is being used up by illegal immigrants in the form of welfare, food stamps, reduced tuition, WIC aid, programs to speak a blue zillion different languages in every government office.


Or, we could stop killing people in other countries...that uses up a lot of money as well.

Let's see...stop killing people...or stop helping people....it really shouldn't be a hard decision.


Who is this "we" you speak of? It would appear that it is the very people you denigrate.

And I take severe offense to being called "lazy". I have worked three jobs, one full-time, the other two as self-employed, while attending college full-time. I have been unemployed for three years and running, but I still managed to finish a college degree and raise a family, because I work at whatever I can find to do whenever I can find to do it.

What about you? Prove to me how you are not "lazy".


If you aren't lazy...then you aren't included in the group of the "lazy populace"....very simple.

I'm extremely lazy...luckily I have certain skills and knowledge that allow me to be



After reading your replies, it seems to me that you do not understand the situation, do not like anyone American simply because they are American, have no concept of societal realities, and are unable or unwilling to address specific concerns and results of previous actions. I suspect this is all because you, sir, are too "lazy" to actually try to hammer out a realistic plan; fantasies and finger-pointing are so much easier.


I love Americans...I'm American...my whole family is American...I wouldn't want to be anything else besides American.

The fact remains, and you even admitted to it, that some Americans feel ENTITLED because of where they were born. They don't want the competition that immigrants present and would rather try to demonize them and blame them for their problems than get off their asses and do what is necessary to succeed.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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And what prevents them from coming into the country right now??? The Canadian border is much easier to cross undetected than the southern border.


That is because Canada has its stuff together so Canadians don't run south of the border.

Unlike Mexico that doesn't but Americans just love to go there on holiday.

To the top:

Broad brush broad generalization what part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand?

Break the law to get here that means they will break the law to suit their own wants, and that is the antithesis of those immigrants who came here the right way.

edit on 18-6-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
After reading the reply after reply in immigration threads from American citizens that are very against immigrants (some with vile hatred)...I think I know what the problem is.

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them. But they can't admit that...because of their American ego...so they just go with that these immigrants are criminals, stupid, and lazy....even though it just isn't true.

These immigrants come here to WORK their asses off to provide a better life for their children. Their children see all their parents have done for them and in turn they WORK their asses off to become successful in this country. They come with one goal...to WORK.

The Americans in this immigration threads that are complaining about these immigrants are just scared because they know they can't compete with them...because in fact they are the lazy ones...they want the job that gives them everything for doing nothing...they want to get paid a ton of money for little work...they aren't willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life...they want it NOW and they want it for THEMSELVES.

Immigrants aren't lazy, they risk their life in most cases just to get here. They'll take a job that gives them little for doing more work in a day than most people do in a week. They just want to get paid a little money to feed their family (regardless if they live here or in another country). They are willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life. They will do without now, so their children and family can have better later.

What we see here is the difference between two types of people, this subgroup of Americans that hate immigrants because they feel ENTITLED to be successful just because they are a citizen. And we have the immigrants who feel DETERMINED to be successful despite if they are a citizen or not.


That is what it all comes down to...it isn't about breaking the law...it isn't about speaking a different language (well...maybe for some)...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.


Stupid post that's offensive.. My parents died seven years ago leaving me some decent money. I could never work another day in my life if a chose to but instead I work 7 days a week for months at a time without a break, and yes I'm American.. I feel I work pretty damn hard never having time off for myself, and then being a father in the two hours a night I have. I know I work harder than 90% of Immigrants so I just don't buy the old BS story that immigrants are so much better than the US population. I had help from two immigrants last time I moved and they were not smart and moved very slow.. I also had some help from an immigrant in washing cars and the guy was SOOO slow to work with it was better to have done it all myself.. I think you might be comparing immigrants to your own work ethic and coming to a false conclusion. I will outwork any immigrant any day of the week because I have self dignity and pride. Nothing feels better than going home absolutely exhausted knowing you gave the day your all.
edit on 18-6-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
what part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand?

Break the law to get here that means they will break the law to suit their own wants, and that is the antithesis of those immigrants who came here the right way.


Just like most dems, he doesn't answer the simplest of all questions. I asked him this question three times..

It's a simple yes or no question. Are illegals aliens criminals? Yes or no?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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Well said BIHOTZ! I wish I could give you a star for that! People have such a knee-jerk reaction on this subject, but they don't see what's really going on. I don't think it's too hard to see...we are all pawns. We argue amongst ourselves, and that's what they want because it doesn't solve ANYTHING. Keep people distracted and fighting with eachother, while they aren't held accountable for what they should be enforcing. And I notice a lot of people here getting upset about OutKasts percieved generalizations about Americans but illegal immigrants are fair game because they overlook a law that's hardly enforced. Lol


 
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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



I see you didn't respond to the very basic point I made OutKast, do you understand that the so-called immigrants are illegal?? Therefore, they are breaking the law? Therefore they are criminals!!!!


As are jaywalkers, speeders, and until very recently gay people who served in the military.

Sorry if I don't try to demonize people who want to just work hard and better their lives based on where they were born and crossing an imaginary line.



Making your entire argument moot. What don't you understand about that? I'm not talking about the poor children, who I could care less about anyway, I'm talking about most illegal immigrants who chose to come here of their own free will illegally and THEY Know it!!!!


My entire argument in this thread is that there are some Americans who are lazy and have a sense of entitlement because of where they were born...and they see hard working immigrants as a threat to their lazy lifestyle.

The fact that they people try to lable them as criminals, or drug dealers, or disease carriers, or identity thieves, or tax frauds...is just a justification for them to demonize them and hate them.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Really?

So I guess since the American colonist couldn't fix thier home countries...they shouldn't have come to invade the Americas.

That is really one of the dumbest arguments in this whole immigration debate.


Ok.. So you think people fled England because it was a crappy place to live? They came here mostly for religious freedom and because there was a chance at a different kind of life. I dont think they came here because there were jobs they could do cheap and send money back to England. Not even remotely the same thing.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



OutKastSearcher is proposing that the entire immigration service be a free-for-all. He is the guy supporting the security guard who told you to back off. I am the guy saying "Wait a minute! This isn't fair!".


Actually...I'm supporting that the grocery store open up the other 50 checkout lanes they have instead of just having one lane open.


From what you have said previously...you want it to be MORE difficult to enter...you actually want a line to get into line...but only after you have a complete background check.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


LoL! I think you and FlyersFan put this thread premise to rest way back on page one and I totally agree with both of you.

I have nothing against hard working people or other cultures. I do have a problem with an uneven playing field and economic sabotage as well as a refusal to respect the culture in which they are being afforded opportunity.



I'm not sure why you think that, TheRedneck himself admitted he has a sense of entitlement that he should have first dibs on jobs because he was born here and his "ancestors" built this country.

He fears the competition hard working immigrants pose because they are willing to work harder, longer, and for less money than he is because he has a sense of entitlement for what his work is worth.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by TheTardis
 



And I will say it again. I agree that there are criminals everywhere. That isnt the point. The point is that we have enough of our own criminals to deal with without letting ones in the country that we cant track and that already could care less about our laws and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE COMMITTING A FEDERAL CRIME BY BEING HERE. How hard is that to understand? They are costing us billions on top of our own criminals.


I guess we should allow no immigrants then...legal or illegal...because without a doubt any group of people will have somoene who will eventually commit a crime at some point in the future.

This is a really weak argument.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



I see you didn't respond to the very basic point I made OutKast, do you understand that the so-called immigrants are illegal?? Therefore, they are breaking the law? Therefore they are criminals!!!!


As are jaywalkers, speeders, and until very recently gay people who served in the military.

Sorry if I don't try to demonize people who want to just work hard and better their lives based on where they were born and crossing an imaginary line.



Wow.. So a Federal offense to you is the same as a misdemeanor?

And you think our borders are a joke then? Do you think other countries care about their borders? Do you even give two craps about the United States and what it stands for? If our borders are "imaginary lines" then what are we? What a joke this thread is turning out to be. It seems if you had your way we would just declare the United States free land and have a big free for all Liberal Orgy and give all our money to foreigners and all live in straw huts..
edit on 18-6-2012 by TheTardis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 



And yet you continue to ignore the word "illegal". If you are here illegally, then you ARE a criminal.


Have you ever broken a law...any law...big or small? Driven faster than the speed limit? Jaywalked? Damaged a dollor bill?

If so...you are a "criminal"...and I guess we should all look at you with disdainful scorn.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by neo96


And what prevents them from coming into the country right now??? The Canadian border is much easier to cross undetected than the southern border.


That is because Canada has its stuff together so Canadians don't run south of the border.


Indeed. They have a better social safety net.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



I have long supported a law, however, that would extend punishment for knowingly or recklessly hiring illegal immigrants to corporate officers and human resources managers, and which would entail mandatory prison time for violators. Prison time is not something that can be easily considered a cost of doing business and passed on to consumers. And it is true that the employers of illegal aliens are as much at fault for the problem as the illegal aliens themselves; both violate the law.


I'm fine with that law, let's crack down on our own citizens trying to exploit the laws to make large profits.

So why isn't that the focus of immigration debates rather than focusing on people wanting to work for a better life?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


As are jaywalkers, speeders, and until very recently gay people who served in the military.


Jaywalkers do get fines
Speeders get thrown in jail
Gays used to get kicked out.

What happens to the illegals? They get free passes!
Very weak argument my friend three poor examples didn't even answer my question though.


Are illegal immigrants criminals?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis
 



And I will say it again. I agree that there are criminals everywhere. That isnt the point. The point is that we have enough of our own criminals to deal with without letting ones in the country that we cant track and that already could care less about our laws and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE COMMITTING A FEDERAL CRIME BY BEING HERE. How hard is that to understand? They are costing us billions on top of our own criminals.


I guess we should allow no immigrants then...legal or illegal...because without a doubt any group of people will have somoene who will eventually commit a crime at some point in the future.

This is a really weak argument.


You know damn well that isnt what I am saying so stop being a child and putting words in my mouth and actually read what I am saying and hear it. I am saying that we need to actually start enforcing the system we have and working within it. It worked for our ancestors and had worked for years before the influx in illegals from the south. Maybe they need to work on their own economy and it will be more lucrative for people to stay there but as it is we cant keep this free for all going. It is only hurting our country. But I guess as long as they are voting democrat and they stay out of your neighborhood you dont really care, Right?






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