The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Benoit84

Your boyfriend's uncle shouldn't have to wait that long. I agree with you.

But here is the problem: no country has unlimited area and unlimited infrastructure. Thus no country, no area, can possibly hope to house the entire world. For that reason, there is a limit on how many people can legally come to America in a certain amount of time.

Isn't this where capitalism should be the natural limiting factor? Not space or infrastructure.

It is LABOR DEMAND that increases/decreases illegal immigration.

It is government policy...immigration policy...quota's and politics that artificially restrict that LABOR SUPPLY.

A CAPITALISTIC, FREE-MARKET Labor Demand and Labor Supply equation that is so powerful that labor forces actually disregard that ARTIFICIAL GOVERNMENT restriction on the LABOR SUPPLY and migrate illegally.

We know that economies that artificially restrict the free-market labor market actually are artificially DEPRESSED.

Our unemployment rate was the lowest and our GDP the highest during times of record illegal immigration.

The precise opposite is true now. Record low illegal immigration combined with high unemployment and a low GDP.

NOW...I know all of that is without partisan idealogy coloring it, but it remains the plain truth all the same.

Back to our regularly recorded program....idealogical goggles required.

reply to post by TheRedneck


LoL! I think you and FlyersFan put this thread premise to rest way back on page one and I totally agree with both of you.

I have nothing against hard working people or other cultures. I do have a problem with an uneven playing field and economic sabotage as well as a refusal to respect the culture in which they are being afforded opportunity.

First off, i want to apologize for my posts being a huge block of text. I try to paragraph, but once I hit enter, it does it's own thing. Anyways, the main reason I commented was because I hate seeing the assumptions, stereotyping and generalizations made against illegal immigrants. I for one, don't blame them for taking chances for a better life for themselves and families. They are not so different from those who built this nation in the first place. But it is the governments job to truly enforce the borders if they want to control immigration. Don't want them here? Quit worrying about controling the ME and worry about the border! It's not that complicated, but they like to make it seem that way. If people don't demand that the government close the border, how can you lay all the blame on those who sneak in? Obviously the government doesn't care what happens!


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by yeahright


Again...tax fraud is not unique to "illegals".

If you want to show that the overwhelming majority of "illegals" do this...then please do so and then you are free to define the group by that standard.

Finding a few examples and defining the group is just an attempt to demonize them so people can hate them for irrational reasons.


So far we have learned that illegals are drug dealing violent criminals who rape children, are plague bearers, tax cheats, identity thieves, and that destroy cultures.


There you have it...propaganda straight from members of ATS....all the reasons to HATE "illegals"....even though they are all generalizations. But next time you see someone you THINK might be illegal...don't forget how vile they are.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Yes.. I'm the dumb one here. Your fighting a losing battle man. I found 4 examples in like 5 seconds. I dont have time to dig up the statistics but the fact that I even found 4 is enough for me. The 4 year old didnt have ot get raped if we didnt let them in. The 14 year old at that party didnt have to get raped either. So your ok with a 4 year old getting raped? What if it was your kid. I agree we have our own criminals idiot. Why would I want to deal with someone elses? I am assuming you live up north somewhere and dont have much of an illegal population so the crap coming out of your mouth is just stupid. You cant possibly be this blind. How about if you let a the guys that raped the little girls come live next door to you? I am done with you. Your defending the dumbest thing on earth at this point. You can try to make me look stupid all you want. Its your only defense because the issues here have been thrown in your face and you cant defend those. So resort to name calling as you always do.

Every subset of society has their criminals and horrible people.

But you are trying to define one particular group (demonize) by those few people.

Then you go into ridiculous arguments saying that I support people getting raped just because I won't define the group by the actions of a few individuals.

Or maybe we should throw all Priest in jail...you know...because they rape little boys.

And I will say it again. I agree that there are criminals everywhere. That isnt the point. The point is that we have enough of our own criminals to deal with without letting ones in the country that we cant track and that already could care less about our laws and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE COMMITTING A FEDERAL CRIME BY BEING HERE. How hard is that to understand? They are costing us billions on top of our own criminals.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


And yet you continue to ignore the word "illegal". If you are here illegally, then you ARE a criminal. And yes I'm aware that non-illegals do this as well. It makes me mad that ANYONE does it, however, the topic that YOU started is about immigration, therefore I am focusing on THAT PARTICULAR GROUP.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

If audited, they are bankrupt. Not the people doing the deed, of course, but the disposable corporation they created for the express purpose of protecting personal property.

So if they get audited, the government takes the corporation, which is worth a small percentage of the owed taxes, and liquidates it. The owners then go to their lawyer and set up another corporation and they are back in business in under a week. Each time this happens, the owners are stripping everything they can from their corporation because they know it will be gone soon.

Maybe a few of them get hit with piercing the corporate veil, but only after multiple times. The personal liability clause of the corporate structure is the most important incentive to economic growth I know of. Without it, no one would be foolish to enter into a business, because they could lose everything they have or ever will have at the whim of a cranky judge and the complaint of a gold-digging crybaby with a good lawyer. We cannot eliminate the corporate veil completely in today's sue-happy economic climate.

Outlaw the corporate protections, and you destroy the economy overnight, completely and absolutely.

I have long supported a law, however, that would extend punishment for knowingly or recklessly hiring illegal immigrants to corporate officers and human resources managers, and which would entail mandatory prison time for violators. Prison time is not something that can be easily considered a cost of doing business and passed on to consumers. And it is true that the employers of illegal aliens are as much at fault for the problem as the illegal aliens themselves; both violate the law.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by yeahright

 

Again...tax fraud is not unique to "illegals".

If you want to show that the overwhelming majority of "illegals" do this...then please do so and then you are free to define the group by that standard.

Finding a few examples and defining the group is just an attempt to demonize them so people can hate them for irrational reasons.


So far we have learned that illegals are drug dealing violent criminals who rape children, are plague bearers, tax cheats, identity thieves, and that destroy cultures.


There you have it...propaganda straight from members of ATS....all the reasons to HATE "illegals"....even though they are all generalizations. But next time you see someone you THINK might be illegal...don't forget how vile they are.

Blah Blah Blah Blah, Your like a broken record. So in your defense here since others are committing crimes it is ok that we let some illegals com in and commit crimes too? That doubling up the crime is ok as long as its the same crime? You still have not answered half the questions posed here with anything remotely resembling a intelligent thought. You just yell out that "See they hate Illegals" when we have offered up MANY MANY reasons why they are a drain on our economy, they lead to lower wages, they DO commit crime and some are absolutely unforgivable crimes and EVERY LAST ONE of them has committed a federal offense. Do you think you should get a free pass if you commit a federal offense? They did so why not you? That seems to be your logic here.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

So far we have learned that illegals are drug dealing violent criminals who rape children, are plague bearers, tax cheats, identity thieves, and that destroy cultures.

Sorry. I didnt realize you had said this. See, You are starting to understand.

Hello. I think they are against "illegal" immigrants. After all. We all came here family-wise from somewhere else (not countng Native American of which I am also related).

With the illegals, I just think they want to be here and work and live without the benefit of "joining the club". And paying taxes.

OutKast, not sure why you are ignoring me. But I will ask you a very simple question. One line:

Are illegal immigrants criminals?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

I can't speak for everyone, but I know for me it is EXACTLY the reason! The only reason! You have called me a racist before over the birth certificate of the P.O.S we have in office but again I will tell you. With me, it all comes down to PRINCIPAL! There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. Because I have standards, I have a major problem with people who refuse to be open, honest, and willing to do things the "hard way" because that is just the way it was originally designed for EVERYONE. The reason we have most of the problems that we do today is because of everyone wanting to take the path of least resistance. Today, too many feel they are "entitled" to the "good life" rather than struggle and "earn" it.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Have you ever considered that the reason NO President or Congress (either D or R) ever actually does anything about illegal immigration is because it serves the corporations they are owned by?

Illegal Immigration serves corporate America. It feeds them cheap, unregulated labor that undercuts the relatively high wages and protection afforded American workers.

Welcome to America!
The only country in the world that when invaded shoots itself in the foot and lends the invaders a helping hand.

Sorry, but you're stereotyping of Americans is lame and unrealistic.
I'm so tired of the line "they're doing all the jobs Americans are too lazy to do".
Somehow those things got done before millions of illegal aliens showed up.
Maybe that explains why youth and minority unemployment figures are around 50% - the unskilled worker variety?
I should know, I was one right out of high school - I did many nasty, dirty jobs to support my kids.
But I also got an education while working full time so I could do better for my family.

California is going bankrupt due to their lax enforcement of immigration laws and pandering to the welfare state ideal.
Congratulations La Raza, mission accomplished.
You can keep California and run it now - it's their problem.
Maybe you should move there and see what kind of paradise they've created.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

You and others have this need to paint them as vile criminals.

I see you sort of replied to me here.

They are criminals because they are breaking the law. I'm not saying they are as bad as murders or baby rapists, but they are still breaking the law!!!!

Or do you not care about that part of the legal immigration process?

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by TheRedneck

 

I do have a problem with an uneven playing field and economic sabotage as well as a refusal to respect the culture in which they are being afforded opportunity.

SAME AS IT EVER WAS.....

CHINESE




ITALIANS


IRISH

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


The immigration hype is EXACTLY the same here in Europe. The fact is if we weren't being royally screwed and forced into a failed revolt, we would all have the means to employ everyone. The thing is you need conflict groups to get the fire started. Then your monopoly on force as the government leaves you in a position to consolidate all power under phantom agencies that number in the thousands.

more to the point. We need boogey men. If not we notice the maniacs behind the curtains.

I will say this, the US has had a misguided belief in alpha culture. That is, a supreme way of thought that is actually closed minded and stringent on new ideas.

If it is something technical that will only be seen by looking at the guts of some random piece of machinery, then it's ok.

If the new idea is something that gives culture and depth as a people, we resist. We don't like to think that other people can have a way of life that is just as good if not better than ours.

I don't know. Immigration is not the problem. The banks making our economies fail time and time again is the problem. They don't want you to look at Paco mowing a lawn and think "Jesus, they are treating us just like them, and we are from here!!"

Dont buy into the hype. It is apparent if you look at anti immigration propaganda across the globe. If it is not made by direct racists its usually some form of pre-emptive crowd control.

MY issues are not THEIR issues, are not OUR issues. God forbid we find common ground with our fellow man against our common enemy.

Like keeping the serfs from getting to friendly with the slaves. Both working together would bury the power elite.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by yeahright

 

Again...tax fraud is not unique to "illegals".

Originally posted by Asktheanimals

Somehow those things got done before millions of illegal aliens showed up.

When was that?

California is going bankrupt due to their lax enforcement of immigration laws and pandering to the welfare state ideal.
Congratulations La Raza, mission accomplished.
You can keep California and run it now - it's their problem.

And California's federal tax dollars fund the welfare that is predominant in the southern (red) US States.

You might want to rethink that...

Federal Taxing and Spending Benefit Some States, Leave Others Paying Bill
taxfoundation.org...

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You know Outkast, the topic you bring up does have some relevance as to the problem we have today with our immigration policies in this country. For that you get a plus!

Now let me ask of your motive? Isn't it convenient that right after your Savior goes around our Lawmakers who were elected by We The People and does an end around to claim his dictatorship to our country by basically creating a back door amnesty, that you come out with this post????



This, my friend is nothing but damage control for your party is it not? Or shall I ask, you, would you have said these things if it was a Conservative POTUS who did this?? Highly doubtful my friend. You really take the left/right paradigm to a whole new level! You are in damage control, so just come out and admit it, rather than acting like you are such a humanitarian and care about helping the "poor and huddled masses"!

A lot of us take the issue from the stand point of economical/social and humanitarian issues! But for ANY party to use this as an election issue is totally wrong and unethical to say the least! If this as you call it "Enforcement Policy" stands up we will see a lot more issues pop up in the future from it! After all, how many times do our lawmakers come up with a law that they actually thought it thru??


If the problem is the system is too hard for an immigrant to get through it, then the responsible thing for our lawmakers to do, would be to change the process that they have to go thru to get it, NOT just hand out free passes to a select group, which is exactly what this is! As one person stated, they have been dealing with the process "LEGALLY" for over 8 years! Now that IS a problem! Why isn't something being done about this?

Your post doesn't pass the smell test. If was such an important issue to you, why did you wait so long to post it? Most people who are passionate about topics such as this, most certainly would'nt wait for a political moment to post this now would they??

I am just questioning your timing of posting it....... Caring about your fellow human beings is a good thing, but using them as a political tool is absolutly disgusting!