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The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by frazzle

Actually...

There is still such a concept as private property, subject only to legal intervention in the case of a crime. That problem is more with relinquishment of the property rights piecemeal over time. As an example, my property has lost its mineral rights, but nothing else. No law applies to my use of the property so long as I do not interfere with others use of their property or commit a crime on my property. There are also some restrictions that are simply common sense: if someone knocks on your front door, even if they walked past a "No Trespassing" sign, you can't legally shoot through the door (unless you can prove they are in the process of breaking in with intent to do bodily harm).

Municipalities, when they annex an area, receive certain rights to manage use of the property through ordinances and zoning regulations. No property may be annexed without approval by the owner.

Subdivisions, when created, relegate a great deal of the property rights to a controlling authority. This is done by the owner of the land in the process of subdivision.

Mineral rights can be purchased from the owner. My Dad sold ours when I was young.

Whenever you buy land, you are buying whatever the previous owner owned. If the land was ever annexed, subdivided, or if certain restrictions such as easements were ever granted, that loss of rights is perpetual. So someone can buy property, own the property, but still be subject to someone else telling them what they can and cannot do on that property, all because a previous owner had given up those ownership rights.

TheRedneck




posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by frazzle

Actually...

There is still such a concept as private property, subject only to legal intervention in the case of a crime. That problem is more with relinquishment of the property rights piecemeal over time. As an example, my property has lost its mineral rights, but nothing else. No law applies to my use of the property so long as I do not interfere with others use of their property or commit a crime on my property. There are also some restrictions that are simply common sense: if someone knocks on your front door, even if they walked past a "No Trespassing" sign, you can't legally shoot through the door (unless you can prove they are in the process of breaking in with intent to do bodily harm).

Municipalities, when they annex an area, receive certain rights to manage use of the property through ordinances and zoning regulations. No property may be annexed without approval by the owner.

Subdivisions, when created, relegate a great deal of the property rights to a controlling authority. This is done by the owner of the land in the process of subdivision.

Mineral rights can be purchased from the owner. My Dad sold ours when I was young.

Whenever you buy land, you are buying whatever the previous owner owned. If the land was ever annexed, subdivided, or if certain restrictions such as easements were ever granted, that loss of rights is perpetual. So someone can buy property, own the property, but still be subject to someone else telling them what they can and cannot do on that property, all because a previous owner had given up those ownership rights.

TheRedneck


I certainly do agree with you that the "concept" of property ownership is still alive and well and as long as you follow the rules, you can do whatever those rules allow. But keep in mind, rules and ordinances can change at a whim and what was permissible when you bought the property becomes verboten.

So I beg to differ with you on the idea that land cannot be annexed without the approval of the owner, I've actually been in that situation, living in the county, and guess what, the majority overruled my vote to remain unannexed and that new "subdivision" dreamed up by a hot shot land developer surrounded me and swallowed up my privacy and changed the rules. I had no option except to sell out and "give up my ownership rights". See, the point is, the government can only take away whatever property rights your neighbors agree should be taken away from you.

We have met the enemy .....



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by frazzle

It might vary by state... I know around here, if you do not agree to the annexation, there is no annexation. That's not to say the powers that be won't use every dirty underhanded trick they can to get you to agree...

And of course, once they get that power, they can use it as they see fit, including changing the rules.

My condolences on your loss.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by frazzle


Whenever you buy land, you are buying whatever the previous owner owned. If the land was ever annexed, subdivided, or if certain restrictions such as easements were ever granted, that loss of rights is perpetual. So someone can buy property, own the property, but still be subject to someone else telling them what they can and cannot do on that property, all because a previous owner had given up those ownership rights.

TheRedneck


Very true, but enough money, tenacity, and a good lawyer can make changes
This house we bought is a century old, the neighborhood is named after it ( was parceled out after the depression, was a farm) and we dealt with an easement that led to a rental.. and renters arent always the greatest around here. They had 3 entrances to the property but insisted on driving through the easement and throwing trash, have parties, use it as their parking lot, and later used it to have the people coming to their house for narcotics use it because it wasnt visible from the larger main street. We had security cameras in place to press charges for the thefts and etc, but it did nothing for our original problem and the possibility that we wouold have these problems again with the next renters.
Needless to say... 9K later and we own it, blocked it, and it is forever in the deed as owned solely by whomever owns this property and no easement usage can ever be claimed without further legal intervention. It can be done.. but boy oh boy is it an expensive royal headache!!



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by frazzle

It might vary by state... I know around here, if you do not agree to the annexation, there is no annexation. That's not to say the powers that be won't use every dirty underhanded trick they can to get you to agree...

And of course, once they get that power, they can use it as they see fit, including changing the rules.

My condolences on your loss.

TheRedneck


Thanks for the condolences, I loved that place and hate where I ended up. But I won't say it was a matter of underhanded tricks, it was just that a lot of the people wanted that entire swath of land annexed into the city because they thought the services the city offered would make their lives easier somehow. And in some ways for some people, I'm sure it worked out that way.

And I think its the same with the people coming to the US from Mexico. They think uprooting their miserable lives there and going through all that goes into getting here will make their lives easier somehow, but many have found that the promises are never as good as the reality and have returned to Mexico. Others are in the same boat as me, they don't have the wherewithal to leave and get stuck here. Which is not to say that plenty aren't happy enough to be mooching off our broken system. There's no one size fits all.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


A big thumbs up to you Advantage. Good work.

second line.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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As a construction worker I see alot of immigrants on job sites. All I can say is they bust their A$#3S to get to where they are now. Most of the people I speak to have a pretty incredible story to tell and work much harder than your average american. I have a friend on the job who moved to CT to save money for when he returns to Mexico in the next 3 years, he lives on the bare minimum as far as daily requirements go, lives with alot of other people, never gets to see his immediate family, and can put up drywall faster than anyone I know.

Just because they arent Americans doesnt mean they are lazy crimninals. Most work much harder than average joe and their purpose is almost humbling.



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by Aktivate
As a construction worker I see alot of immigrants on job sites. All I can say is they bust their A$#3S to get to where they are now. Most of the people I speak to have a pretty incredible story to tell and work much harder than your average american. I have a friend on the job who moved to CT to save money for when he returns to Mexico in the next 3 years, he lives on the bare minimum as far as daily requirements go, lives with alot of other people, never gets to see his immediate family, and can put up drywall faster than anyone I know.

Just because they arent Americans doesnt mean they are lazy crimninals. Most work much harder than average joe and their purpose is almost humbling.


You also hear people complaining about the quality of the work of these 'hard' workers. Faster does not mean better. It is an insult to the hard working citizens of America to be included in such a blanket statement. If anyone worked harder they would be slaves. That's not what we want in this country, is it?



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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I agree on a few things here.. But there are things that are just wrong-

First of all it's too vague- you talk about immigrants, as if that's not what this country is based on..
# two, let's be honest, you're talking specifically about latin immigrants- that's ignorant and almost racist in my opinion..

Americans love to find someone/thing to put the blame on instead of taking responsiblity..

BTW, I'm a legal american immigrant living in france, so i have a better understanding for people moving to another country- leaving everything behind, speaking another language, the job market is different, etc-
taxes too- americans can shut up on complaining about them cuz next to european countries, they really don't pay much! immigrants- illegal or not are paying some sort of tax- SALES TAX at the minimum (except in oregon)..


cutting it short my headache is splitting- would love to elaborate more



posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Kujo427
I agree on a few things here.. But there are things that are just wrong-

First of all it's too vague- you talk about immigrants, as if that's not what this country is based on..
# two, let's be honest, you're talking specifically about latin immigrants- that's ignorant and almost racist in my opinion..

Americans love to find someone/thing to put the blame on instead of taking responsiblity..

BTW, I'm a legal american immigrant living in france, so i have a better understanding for people moving to another country- leaving everything behind, speaking another language, the job market is different, etc-
taxes too- americans can shut up on complaining about them cuz next to european countries, they really don't pay much! immigrants- illegal or not are paying some sort of tax- SALES TAX at the minimum (except in oregon)..

cutting it short my headache is splitting- would love to elaborate more


The country was founded on immigrants not illegal immigrants. If anyone brings up latin illegal immigrants, it is because that is what we have the most of. We have so many in fact that refuse to speak english that we are forced to speak spanish in many cases just to get a job. I would never go to a foreign country and expect them to speak my language in order to get a job or for any other reason. I find that arrogant and rude. All other cultures have come here and learned the language.

Illegal isn't a race so this is not about racism. We have citizens of every color and culture.



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Okay, I have a question or two. Where are you from and how did you form your opinions
It seems like you're the one who doesn't like the American worker and it is you who feels threatened.

That's how I see that...my opinion of course



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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lol at people complaining about illegal immigrants. This whole country is corrupted by criminals. You think they care about illegals?? of course not.



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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50+ flags for an OP that is obviously solely intended to inflame and that belongs in the Rant section???? Are you kidding me??
On topic:
The mere fact that these people come here "illegally" shows intent to break, and a lack of respect for, the laws of this land.
What sort of sudden realization of conscience or integrity is to keep law breaking people like this from breaking more serious laws?
What sort of example does this disregard for the law set for the children brought here and born here?
Your OP title contradicts your basic argument...THESE PEOPLE ARE ILLEGALLY HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.
They are criminals the moment they set foot here and they are a slap in the face to those that enter LEGALLY, as well as those of us who support them with our tax dollars.
I realize I am addressing a well known TRill here, but PLEASE...WAKE UP!!!
edit on 23-6-2012 by Elostone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Sure the stroke of a pen and make it legal and there is a reason that it doesn't happen all the time and is fought when attempted. Because you can't just open the gate and allow unabated entry into a country and expect it's economy to not be effected in a negative manner. No country allows immigration to go unchecked. The U.S is no different. But it's the U.S that is told timer and again that it needs to do so.


I still do not understand that with countries that have these mass exoduses of their citizens why they can not do as Americans did years ago and band together to cause change within the country. Using Mexico as an example I would think those millions of people if they where to stand up and demand a change of their notoriously corrupt government that they could effect change.

In the end I'm glad people want to find a better life. If that involves coming to America then so be it. But if you are doing so and by doing it you are becoming a criminal then you are not actually trying to provide a better life. You are just another person that is breaking the laws of the land. And no one should be surprised when you are called on to deal with that.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by Aktivate
I have a friend on the job who moved to CT to save money for when he returns to Mexico in the next 3 years, he lives on the bare minimum as far as daily requirements go, lives with alot of other people, never gets to see his immediate family, and can put up drywall faster than anyone I know.


What is always amazing to me is this: why do you think all of that is a good thing? How come that being a virtual slave is all of a sudden glorious? That actually sounds un-American to me.


Just because they arent Americans doesnt mean they are lazy crimninals. Most work much harder than average joe and their purpose is almost humbling.


Again, see the above. I actually did quite a bit of construction work myself when I was young and I know what it's like to go on long days and no weekends. That is not normal or acceptable in a normal society.

And:

Why do I need to care about the purpose of the Mexican people? Can we please figure out our own purposes and goals? I can tell you that, THEIR purposes are not aligned with OURS. I thought that was clear as a day, boy was I wrong.



posted on Jun, 24 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Why anyone would think that lowering our standards to meet other places would ever be a good idea, I am not sure of their thinking. We could all live like third world countries for sure, but why would we want to? That is what used to seperate america from mexico. Americans used to be able to work 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and actually live a great life. The middle class is obliterated, and we are expected to live 30 to a house, or 15 to a 1 BD atp, and deal with it. While people that live one family to a crazy house feel no damage to their lifestyle......



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
After reading the reply after reply in immigration threads from American citizens that are very against immigrants (some with vile hatred)...I think I know what the problem is.

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them. But they can't admit that...because of their American ego...so they just go with that these immigrants are criminals, stupid, and lazy....even though it just isn't true.

These immigrants come here to WORK their asses off to provide a better life for their children. Their children see all their parents have done for them and in turn they WORK their asses off to become successful in this country. They come with one goal...to WORK.

The Americans in this immigration threads that are complaining about these immigrants are just scared because they know they can't compete with them...because in fact they are the lazy ones...they want the job that gives them everything for doing nothing...they want to get paid a ton of money for little work...they aren't willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life...they want it NOW and they want it for THEMSELVES.

Immigrants aren't lazy, they risk their life in most cases just to get here. They'll take a job that gives them little for doing more work in a day than most people do in a week. They just want to get paid a little money to feed their family (regardless if they live here or in another country). They are willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life. They will do without now, so their children and family can have better later.

What we see here is the difference between two types of people, this subgroup of Americans that hate immigrants because they feel ENTITLED to be successful just because they are a citizen. And we have the immigrants who feel DETERMINED to be successful despite if they are a citizen or not.


That is what it all comes down to...it isn't about breaking the law...it isn't about speaking a different language (well...maybe for some)...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.


Lets not forget that every "American" is an immigrant, child, grand child of one. America wouldnt be and is nothing without immigrants who are the living energy of the Corporate machine that is America. Those who consider themselves true Americans have nothing to be proud of as the land you claim as your own was stolen and paid for by blood and innocence of the true ancestors of this land.. true Native Americans.



posted on Jun, 28 2012 @ 01:44 AM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Did you go back and go through all of the immigration records? How do you know they were all legal back then?



posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by metatronobody
Lets not forget that every "American" is an immigrant, child, grand child of one. America wouldnt be and is nothing without immigrants who are the living energy of the Corporate machine that is America. Those who consider themselves true Americans have nothing to be proud of as the land you claim as your own was stolen and paid for by blood and innocence of the true ancestors of this land.. true Native Americans.


Yeah well what a naive thing to say...

Most of territories in the world are currently populated by people who at some point in the past (sometimes distant, sometimes recent) conquered the land and took it from somebody else... So, duh...



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by metatronobody
Lets not forget that every "American" is an immigrant, child, grand child of one. America wouldnt be and is nothing without immigrants who are the living energy of the Corporate machine that is America. Those who consider themselves true Americans have nothing to be proud of as the land you claim as your own was stolen and paid for by blood and innocence of the true ancestors of this land.. true Native Americans.


Yeah well what a naive thing to say...

Most of territories in the world are currently populated by people who at some point in the past (sometimes distant, sometimes recent) conquered the land and took it from somebody else... So, duh...



Also, from my native ancestory, one tribe almost completely wiped out my native indian ancestors. Natives americans also have blood on their hands. However, no one alive today is responsible for what happened in the past.






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