The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by macman
 



It is a comparison.
Migrating through the open Eastern Border LEGALLY, or sneaking over the Northern/Southern Border ILLEGALLY.

You have already been shown for the fraud that you are in this topic.
You skip around and cherry pick topics to respond to.


Those coming over "illegally" today would gladly come over "legally" if they had to do the same thing immigrants of the past had to do....sign their name.

What haven't I responded to that you would like me to???


The process is in place for them to do it LEGALLY. The fact that they are either not patient or just don't care about the Laws here is the issue.
The process is in place.




posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

The problem with the system that you are proposing is that it would allow anyone into this country, no matter what and that can not be allowed. In this country, gone are the days of some medical problems, such as polio, and other diseases that the government worked very hard to eradicate from the population, yet in many countries are making a come back in force. Do we allow the sick to come in, to work, exposing thousands to a potentially deadly epidemic?

I do support legal immigration, those that took the time to go through the front door and ultimately worked hard to become a citizen. I will follow the laws, welcome them in as my neighbor and fellow citizen. But those who sneak across the border, those who support and justify such are no better than those who supported slavery and continued it so long ago. Illegal immigration is a horrible thing, ultimately while a majority of those who are seeking a better life come here to do such, the reality is that they are breaking the law to sustain a system that is pretty much keeping them out of the loop. Yes they may work for less, and longer hours, and for what? At what point does it stop being financially feasible to keep them? How much is it worth for a parent to hug a child, but can’t due to an injury sustained while on the job, and then they can’t get the help they need or change the working conditions due to fear or even that they may be deported for breaking the law? Why is it that the federal government allows for the breaking of some laws by those who are not citizens of this country, yet will throw the book at the citizens who do?
National parks destroyed, property trespassed and vandalized, land ruined is just to name a few of the problems that all come up due to this issue. And there are some parts of this country you can not go, if you do, there is a good chance you could get killed from just being there, even if you are giving aid to those who have broken the laws of the country.

No I can not work for less than 7.25 an hour, as I do enjoy the place I live, some of the modern creature comforts that come along with such. At least with that 7.25 an hour, I get the benefit of the full protection of the laws when it comes to working a job.

So you are saying that 20 plus people living in say a 2 bedroom apartment is healthy and good for moral? I personally like a bit of space, one where I can sit alone if I desire, and not have to worry about where I am sleeping, or even if I have to go to the bathroom, not having to fight to get in there.

Reality is that if someone is paid under the table, there is no taxes, no social security, no fica, futa or suta taken out of the pay check.

Let me ask you this, OutKast searcher: Would you allow for a group to come to where you live, take your food, use your house, and not help with the upkeep? Or would you expect them to provide some sort of aid. Is that fair? Those who are not in the country legally, break the laws, and ultimately they do such without impunity. They trespass where ever they like, take what they want, often with no thank you or asking.

I have lived in areas with a high illegal immigration population, and I can tell you that it is not all as you would put it. While they are hard working, doing the jobs that some may find to be undesirable, the reality is that at times they are a problem. Many tend to be alcoholics, drinking excessively, often getting quite nasty when they do not get their way. While they try to keep to themselves often isolating themselves from the rest of society, and get irate when someone can not speak Spanish, and down right rude. The are a lively bunch, yet at the same time I must wonder, if they took the steps to come to the country legally how different would their lives had been, if they would be in a better place or preferring their home country. There is nothing that ties or binds them to this country, while that may have an appeal, the reality is that there is slowly a setting up of 2 separate countries, one being the one that they are from and one in which they are now living. A country can not exist that way, it divides a house and in the words of Abraham Lincoln: A house divided can not stand.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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So, OS you are called out on everything, and just go on to other things?


I am wondering how you will retort to any of the other posts calling you out.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by korathin
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 



Yeah, the racist searcher is at it again. Hard to compete against 20 people who live in the same house sleeping on the floor, and willing to work for 4-7$ an hour.

This website is so blatantly tolerant of leftist bigots of all stripes that this place is a waste of space. From Caucasian hating bigots like you, and male hating bigots like a few others, it reminds me why I tossed this trash bin for the last few.

Above top secret: Denying ignorance?

BS. More like enshrining leftism and racist ignorance. The only thing that is "Above Top Secret" is how the mods go to bat for leftist bigots and chauvinistic male haters.


Yeah, deny ignorance.


The North American Union is the integration of the United States, Canada and Mexico initially. The integration of our economies, harmonization of laws, open borders and national treatment de facto means the disintegration of these countries as sovereign nations. Ultimately it will include all of the countries of North and South America into one big non-descript region.


www.channelingreality.com...

Read the link and tell me who was president when this brain child was born and who all kept it alive. Its NON partisan.

Most people thought the NAU idea had died after Bush left office. Wrong>

Mexico and Canada Invited to Join the Secret TPP Negotiations

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by hellbjorn012
 



I dont think its anger, I think its bafflement, they are baffled that someone can display the ignorance and unreasonable assumptions you make toward your own fellow citizens.


Some of my fellow citizens are lazy....are you denying that?



Stop preaching to us and go pick up a illegal family at the border, take em in and feed them, clothe them, let them have run of your house.


Again with this strawman argument.

No...I'm not into handouts despite what some people try to claim.

But hey...maybe I'll give some of them a job...for a fair wage of course



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Grambler
 



Where is that definition?


If you don't know the definition of public vs private...you need more help than I can give you in a thread.

There can be restricted public land...but by definition...it is still public land. The government...yes by definition...does not own any PRIVATE LAND.


On a side note, the "public" owns stock in things like Fannie mae, General Motors, etc. Is everyone in the world entitled to ownership of these as well?


They are welcome to their services just as any "citizen" is.

Or do you think foreigners can't ride Amtrak???


Exactlly! Your ok with allowing them on "our land" just not "your land". What right do you have to welcome people onto property that is not entirely yours? In other words, your moral obligation to allow these people to better themselves stops when it hits to close to home.


I'm ok with them coming here and working like every other immigrant has in history.

You are hanging onto this argument that because I support our country going back to it's roots where we openly welcomed anyone who wanted to come here to work hard, that it means I should support them myself....it is such an illogical argument...I'm actually scared that your brain works that way.

Did you expect citizens in the past to welcome immigrants into their homes and feed them??? If not...why do you expect me to?

Hell...do you expect those that support "legal" immigration to house and feed those "legal" immigrants??? If not...why do you expect me to?


And I'm not claiming you said to provide for them. I'm saying your argument is that they should be allowed to break the law because they need things for themselves and family and they work really hard. I'm saying you admit they work harder than you and apparently they have a great need for their families, so they should be entitled to all of your stuff.


Yes you are saying to provide for them...but nice back peddle.

Do you think homeless people should be arrested for dumpster diving or for panhandling at a traffic light? If you don't...then maybe you should let them in your house...because they are breaking the law and you don't care.

Again..it's a dumb argument.


You say you'll keep what you earned. I say you didn't earn it. You admit they work harder than you, so the only reason that you are more successful than them is because of the situation you where born into.


The situation I was born in helped me get to where I am today...but I still had to work for it.

Maybe I should correct myself...I am currently lazier than most immigrants...but I worked hard in the past.

And I simply want them to have the opportunity to work hard for themselves to become successful as well. I have never advocated a hand out or that they should be given anything.


Lets use that example. Your saying that the government should have no right to regulate anyone entering the public park. So if a bunch of undocumented illegals want to go to the park, will you let your kids play there?


Ummm...yeah...why wouldn't I? They are people just like everyone else...why would I treat them any differently than anyone else?


Keep in mind unlike citizens of this country, you have no way of knowing the criminal history of any of these people is.




So you know the criminal history of every person you see at a park???

You are really really reaching....please tell me how you know the criminal history of a person you see in a public park...I am very interested.


On your point, I think that legal citizens should be allowed to use that park, and no I wouldn't want them in my house. The difference is all of those legal citizens have part ownership of that public park, and I have no right to keep owners out of it, whereas they don't own my land so I don't have to let them in.


Only citizens?

So you don't even think legal immigrants should be allowed into public parks???

Wow...you are an elitist aren't you???


Your saying that because you are part owner of this public park as a legal citizen, you have the right to tell all of the other owners that they have to let anyone in. I'm saying if you have the nerve to tell others to let illegals on land they part own, why don't you let them on property you fully own.


Can your argument get any dumber???

Tell me...are tours of these public parks allowed? Can tourists from a different country come and access this park? If you are ok with that...why don't you allow them into your house???



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by hellbjorn012
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Hey yeah it may be about competition, but not cause they work harder or are better, if their are 20,000 jobs to fill id rather their be only 15000 people applying for those jobs instead of 25,000 weather they be white, asian, black, Mexican, purple or green..

Thats just common sense
edit on 20-6-2012 by hellbjorn012 because: (no reason given)


But if American's are better workers...then the increased competition won't matter.

But thanks for admitting that you fear the competition...that was my entire point of this thread.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



and while you're at it, i know a few unemployed vets who are really good shots, perhaps border control could use their help ??


Why are you so hell bent on killing innocent people???

Do you think it makes you sound cool to say this on the internet???

Why do you place no value on human life???


You do know there are some people out there that still see you as an invader and a thief for stealing this land....do you think it is ok for those people to be talking about and plotting to kill you and your family???

I don't...and I think when you try to sound cool by advocating murder is just as disgusting.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 
believe what you will but your silly accusations with no basis in fact does nothing to help your faulty argument.
but then again, you don't have any 1st hand experience with these issues, do you??



I would say I have pretty direct first hand experience.

So how many illegals have you killed??? You said you aren't all talk...so let's hear it.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



that ^^^^ wasn't your argument, why change it now?


Ok...pay attention.

You said "illegals" should be deported after they are treated...I said that isn't doctors and nurses job...you said it is there American duty to do so...I asked how a citizen verifies legal status...you said ICE employees are citizens...then I said "doctors and nurses aren't ICE employees".

You see how that works...you have to logically follow a conversation and have the reading comprehension to understand it.

So yes...that was my argument all along.


no need to have ICE officers on site, they can be summoned as the need arises.
actually, cooperation between divisions often leads to a surplus of resources.


And when does the need arise???

When does the hospital call ICE...who makes that decision and based on what???


your are translating English for whom ??
too bad your translation is devoid of any factual information whatsoever.

plenty of ppl who live in sanctuary cities readily recognize the unmistakable body language of illegals, but, why would i divulge those secrets to you ??
they can be learned, you should try it


Stop dodging the question and let's here all these secrets you are speaking of.

You sound very ignorant claiming you can "spot" an illegal and then saying it is a secret as to how you do it.

Maybe you are afraid that if you say how you say you "spot" them that it is going to make you look like a horrible person???


you're funny ... an Amendment is the "law of the land"


Ummmm....yeah....Constitutional Ammendments are the law of the land.

Maybe you should learn how our government works.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



that's ok, i'm surprised that you'd reference snopes as any kind of reliable source but whatever

if you want to harp on it, feel free.
it doesn't change any of the facts of this situation we face with the overbearing, over-reaching, over-exaggerated plight of the illegals.


Why don't you like snopes...does it debunk all your right wing chain emails???

If you think that story is true...go find a legit news article about it.

The fact that you can't even admit that you bought into a false made up story is hilarious. Hey...ATS believed it was a hoaxed story...they removed the post.

You go ahead and continue to use fabricated stories to back up your position...I have come to expect nothing more from you.





posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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How about the fact that the corporations that liberals and dems hate so much will obviously pay the illegal aliens $5 salary under the table and they won't need to pay taxes on that either. If they are bad workers there are 11 others lined up at the nearest 7-11 looking for work!

You can be the best worker in corporate america, but if you don't play nice with the politics, the boss, the clients etc... If you make one wrong move. In this economic climate, as the great donald trump likes to say, "You're fired!"

This could also hinder people's chances to be creative and think outside the box, just play it safe.... They are afraid of losing their jobs.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



yes, that's a fine way to dodge the main point and no, that isn't any better since there is no such thing.
contrary to the PCspeak of today, there are only Americans of (insert your former nationality here) descent.


Ah...yeah...and a shorthand way of saying that is saying Mexican American, or German American, or Irish American.

They are called adjectives...look them up.


anyone who promotes a hyphenated nationality has no loyalty to either of them and that's a problem.




Or maybe they are proud of their current country and also proud of their heritage.

But no...you declared it..so it applies to everyone



do tell, are there El Salvadorian Mexicans ? Panamanian Brazilians ? Cuban Americans ? Russian Canadians ? Swedish Brits ??


Yes...there are.

But it applies more to Americans because we are all descendants of immigrants unless soemone is 100% Native American.

If you claim you are just "American" and nothing else...what that tells me is that you have no clue about your heritage and have no roots.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 




Either make everyone legal and make it easy for people to become legal...bring them up to our standards....or yes...they can work longer, harder, and for less pay to go down to their standards.


First option is wildly unrealistic, since there is not even enough work for American citizens - it would just lead to higher unemployment which is undesirable.
Second option is undesirable as it would lead to low worker rights like in China.

So why not simply keep the standards different for citizens and illegals? That way you can avoid both higher unemployment and deterioration of worker rights.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 




But if American's are better workers...then the increased competition won't matter.


Incorrect, it would still matter, as the immigrants would be unemployed, so they would only take (from social services) and not give.

Mass immigration is a lose-lose situation for the destination country - either they lose jobs (if the immigrants are better / cheaper workers), or they lose money for social services (if the immigrants are unemployable).

Its really a very simple logic to follow. If number of people increases faster than the economic wealth of the nation, it means less wealth per person and lower quality of life. And especially in a recession, when wealth growth is seriously inhibited.



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 




But if American's are better workers...then the increased competition won't matter.


Incorrect, it would still matter, as the immigrants would be unemployed, so they would only take (from social services) and not give.

Mass immigration is a lose-lose situation for the destination country - either they lose jobs (if the immigrants are better / cheaper workers), or they lose money for social services (if the immigrants are unemployable).

Its really a very simple logic to follow. If number of people increases faster than the economic wealth of the nation, it means less wealth per person and lower quality of life. And especially in a recession, when wealth growth is seriously inhibited.


What don't people get about the fact that Mexicans have been doing American's jobs for many years already ~ IN MEXICO.

www.maquilaportal.com...

The jobs "given" to the Mexican people by former US companies that moved TO MEXICO are working out so well for the people that its driving them right over the border. So we blame the Mexican people for what our own frigging congress did to them ~ and to us.

Put the blame where it goes. Please.

edit on 21-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-6-2012 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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First, I will have to admit to not reading anything on this thread since some time yesterday because I might get in trouble for laughing out loud at work.

But these lovely people illegally coming here to work and make a better life that the OP is so fond of. Think about this. Those are the same people thats lifestyles, or habits, or skills or work ethic, whatever you want to point to, has created such a poor economy in their own country that our weak dollar carries that much weight and they come here and do not conform to our customs and habits and lfestyles. So do you not think that they will do the same to our country that they did to theirs?



posted on Jun, 21 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Amazed that people are still replying in good faith to this Obamabot.

I sole purpose of this thread is a justification in making the illegals legal. Also, it shows how the extreme left works.

Obama was able to become president with the "HOPE and CHANGE" scheme, when that didn't work he deployed white guilt and racism but that doesn't appear to be working as well as the left wanted, onto the next stage - if the people don't agree with you, get new people. (and discard the old ones)

You see it right here, Americans are lazy, don't want to work.....welcome to the new HOPE and CHANGE.





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