The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The taxes are withheld by the employer...and you are right...they never file taxes...so they never get a refund.


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


You could not be more wrong.


...millions of illegal aliens are getting tax refunds from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). The scam is an infuriating combination of Orwellian law-making, tax-preparer complicity, IRS impotency, and Congressional gridlock, all of which result in billions of dollars of fraudulent payments being made to individuals claiming to support alleged family members in Mexico.

...Enter the Additional Child Tax Credit (ACTC) which is “a refundable credit that can be claimed by taxpayers who are ineligible to claim the full non-refundable child tax credit, because it exceeds their total tax liability...

...Enter the scam. “We’ve seen sometimes 10 or 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax forms,” the tax preparer-turned-whistleblower told WTHR News. He then showed the WTHR reporter some examples. “Here’s a return right here: we’ve got a $10,300 refund for nine nieces and nephews,” he said. “We’re getting an $11,000 refund on this tax return. There’s seven nieces and nephews,” he added, pointing to another set of documents. “I can bring out stacks and stacks. It’s just so easy it’s ridiculous.” ...


More at link if you care.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I think that if they're going to let the children stay, then the parents should at the very least have any benefits taken, and moved to the back of the line if they want to stay.

As for a LEGAL work program, I have no problem with that. If they want to give them a LEGAL day pass, and punish anyone that hires them for paying them under the table, I'm fine with that. Like I said, if someone wants to come here LEGALLY I welcome them with open arms.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher

So you would be fine with a program I just described in my other reply...a fast and easy work permit program.

Show up at a boarder checkpoint...sign your name...get a LEGAL work permit, get a Tax ID, and enter the country???

Sure, as long as there is some sort of system in place to make sure they are signing their real name, to make sure they are not known international terrorists, and to make sure they get deported if they break US law. After all, how easy is it to sign "Elvis Aaron Presley"?

Of course, here's the rub: back during the Reagan administration, Reagan agreed to a compromise with Congress: he granted amnesty to all illegal aliens in the US, and in return was to get a closed border to prevent further undocumented entry. Well, they got their amnesty, but the border is still wide open... that ditch they wade across has probably been walked dry by now.

This time, it's your turn to go first. Close the border, deport the illegal immigrants, and we can set something up.


it isn't illegal to work for less than minimum wage...it's just illegal to pay less than minimum wage.




You do read your posts, right? It's not illegal for one party in an employment agreement to do something, but it is illegal for the other... so it's legal now?

And of course, don't forget this: New bill pushing for $10 minimum wage; how will this affect economy


Again...this is your choice vs the choice of someone who is determined to sacrifice to work for the benefit of others in their family. What I hear you saying is that they are more determined to work than you are because you aren't willing to give up your cushy life to compete with them.

Then you need a hearing aid.

What I am saying is that I, my family, my ancestors, my neighbors... we have all worked long and hard to create this country. Do you really believe it just sprang into existence out of nothing? Since we have put all the work into it, I believe we should get some of the rewards of that labor. I dug a pool and am enjoying swimming in it. Those who did not dig the pool get to use it as long as there's room left; they do not get to run me out of it.

Mexico has all the same advantages that America has, save apparently one: the determination and willingness to sacrifice of their people. If they were so industrious and determined as you say, why is Mexico a third-world country?

As for cushy, any time you want to trade lives, I'm all for it.


It is a myth that "illegals" pay no taxes....no company can just take money out of their account and pay people without showing where that money went.

Take an accounting course sometime... there are plenty of ways. Money doesn't have to be shown in the "wages payable" account; it can be shown as "maintenance" or "operating expenses" just fine as long as no one is combing through the books. And since it is not in "wages payable", there is no withholding, no FICA, no unemployment, no nothing except a little increase in the profit margin... which is far less than the taxes levied on employment and income.


But people are resistant to change the laws to make it easier to enter legally

Well, yes they are! Not just because of the fiasco I mentioned earlier, but because they want and expect the Federal government to protect the borders of their country. That means checking to make sure, again, that someone doesn't sign "Elvis Aaron Presley", wade across the ditch, rape a few dozen women, kill a couple of men, and plant a bomb to blow up the local high school.

There are reasons for laws; they do not exist just to make some people feel important. Your lack of comprehension of this fact takes serious credibility from any arguments you propose.


The only way to fix that is to make it extremely easy to enter and work legally.

No.

There is another way, and that is to make it extremely difficult to enter through any but legal channels. That's like saying that we have too many illegal drunk drivers, so let's just make drunk driving legal.


Oh give me a break...thousands of years of Native culture wiped out and we are supposed to revear 200 years of an invading culture???

I am of that native culture.

So now I guess I am racist against myself? How does that work?


And that can all be solved if the process to become legal and on the books was made very easy for all to enter who want to work.

Your credibility on this subject is dropping by leaps and bounds... if it becomes so easy to enter that someone can enter via a quick lie, how does that solve the crime problem?

I mean, come on, how easy is it for Mahmoud Muhammed Al-Whatever to sign his name as "Sam Jones" and walk on in?

~continued~


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher

~continued~


We should be a country where we want the best...not a country where we want those who aren't the best but feel they are entitled because of their geographical birth location.

Ah, now we can agree! So just because someone lives in a third-world country called Mexico and hasn't been able to build their own country, they should not be coming to ours... because we want the "best" and obviously that doesn't include those who haven't done much with their own country... and because they are not entitled to come here simply because of where they are born.

I knew we would agree on something eventually.


We've handled population surges before...we are capable of handling it again.

Yes, we have. And yes, we will continue to adapt our infrastructure... but the problem is that while we are adapting our infrastructure, the money we need to adapt it is being used up by illegal immigrants in the form of welfare, food stamps, reduced tuition, WIC aid, programs to speak a blue zillion different languages in every government office.

FlyersFan has already given you links to this information.


Who cares??? As long as we are getting some hard workers that outperform our lazy populace....we win.

Who is this "we" you speak of? It would appear that it is the very people you denigrate.

And I take severe offense to being called "lazy". I have worked three jobs, one full-time, the other two as self-employed, while attending college full-time. I have been unemployed for three years and running, but I still managed to finish a college degree and raise a family, because I work at whatever I can find to do whenever I can find to do it.

What about you? Prove to me how you are not "lazy".


After reading all of that...it still seems that the core reason for you is that you know they will out perform many Americans and you just don't like the idea of that.

After reading your replies, it seems to me that you do not understand the situation, do not like anyone American simply because they are American, have no concept of societal realities, and are unable or unwilling to address specific concerns and results of previous actions. I suspect this is all because you, sir, are too "lazy" to actually try to hammer out a realistic plan; fantasies and finger-pointing are so much easier.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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I see you didn't respond to the very basic point I made OutKast, do you understand that the so-called immigrants are illegal?? Therefore, they are breaking the law? Therefore they are criminals!!!!

Making your entire argument moot. What don't you understand about that? I'm not talking about the poor children, who I could care less about anyway, I'm talking about most illegal immigrants who chose to come here of their own free will illegally and THEY Know it!!!!

But I guess that's why you have the word illegal wrapped up in nice nifty "" which is what liberals love to do so they can skew facts and break the law themselves!
edit on 18-6-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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Perhaps the OP should do some research and look at the facts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I supposed, but denying ignorance isn't being used in this case.

"Based on socio-demographic characteristics, we estimate that 51.8 percent of households with children headed by a legal immigrant used at least one welfare program in 2009, compared to 71 percent for illegal immigrant households. Illegal immigrants generally receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children. Illegal immigrant households primarily use only food assistance and Medicaid, making almost no use of cash and housing assistance. In contrast, legal immigrant households tend to have relatively high use rates for every type of program. The relatively high overall welfare use rates for both legal and illegal immigrants with children indicates that the inclusion of illegal immigrants in government data does not explain the high overall welfare use rate of immigrants. Rather, both legal and illegal immigrant households with children have high overall welfare use rates. "

The above was quoted straight from the "Center for Immigration Studies". I sure would like to know just where the OP gets their facts from to come up with such an absurd opinion. Oh, and I don't in any way "HATE" illegal immigrants, just hate the burden they are placing on legitimate tax payers. If I wasn't limited to the current use of the internet, I could share more info. Here is a link with plenty of reading for you based on facts. ENJOY

cis.org...

Pladuim



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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I'm so glad this topic has been brought up. I agree with you 100% OutKast! I would like to thank the poster who mentioned the fact that illegal aliens are nothing but scapegoats...for MUCH bigger issues. My boyfriends uncle has been waiting 12 years for his wife and kids greencards to be approved. Does it really need to be so difficult for immigrants to get here legally? No wonder so many take chances crossing illegally... I have no doubt in my mind that if the government did make it easier and immigrants were able to all flood in legally as opposed to illegally, many people would STILL complain about it. "How dare these people come here and steal our jobs!!!" Doesn't matter if it's legal or illegal. It's about people thinking their entitled to things first because their ancesters have been here longer.


 
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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Immigrants have a multiplier effect. Employment for legal Americans actually goes up as illegal immigration does.
All of that cheap labor is a form of stimulas to the economy.

You don't need to look any further than the current record lows in illegal immigration correlated with our high unemployment to know that immigrants aren't "stealing" jobs.

Just reality. This isn't partisan or idealogical...this is actually an issue that has been exhaustively studied.

Immigration is a convenient "button" to push though and allows the GOP to play upon "lizard brain" and xenophobic issues.

Xenophobia always spikes in times of domestic economic downturn. Folks simply become more stressed, less tolerant, no factual evidence or real correlation needed. It happened with the Irish, Germans, Italians etc. throughout history. Geez when Kennedy was elected it was a near "Obama" moment as he was the first Irish AND Catholic candidate ever elected as President.

Just amazing though...Romney's dad actuall was born in Mexico, his grandparents lived there for decades...and still he managed to be so desperate to capture the nomination that he alienated hispanics kissing up to his base...and then Pres. Obama kicked him in the groin for it before Romney could have his etch-n-sketch moment.

Good times when you get to see a politician exploiting intolerance for votes get thier just desserts


Romney is going to have to sleep in the bed he made on this one....no Rubio to the rescue.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by FissionSurplus
This belongs in the rant section, because it is total hyperbole and opinion, with nothing to back it up but your own skewed viewpoint.

It has nothing to do with prejudice, and everything to do with the screwy way our federal government cherry-picks what laws to enforce. It has nothing to do with hatred, and everything to do with people here who are here illegally, taking jobs away from people who are here legally.

There are thousands of people here legally, who went through all the proper channels and waited their turn. Sure, everybody comes here for "a better life", but does that desire erase the fact that they are breaking our sovereign laws and flaunting it in our faces?

Do you not see that illegals are invisible under the law, so they will take any wage, thereby driving down the wages for EVERYBODY in this country? Do you not see that an illegal willing to work for $3 an hour will be picked over a citizen who has a right to be paid minimum wage? Isn't it obvious who is pushing this agenda and who fattens their bottom line by hiring illegal labor? It is not a question of laziness, as I have seen illegals lazier than an old dog on a hot day, and very hard working Americans. Your stereotyping sounds like more mainstream media claptrap.

Most Americans don't like the illegal angle, and the fact that these "undocumented visitors" do not come here to assimilate, they come here to milk what they can. It is a drain on the system and it is a gross abuse of our services. There is nothing to like or respect about that.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is. Your opinion....and as far as I'm concerned, not one based in reality.


/\THIS/\ seems right on the money if you ask me........I'm not sure there is anything further that needs to be said....except immigrants make great boxers...Americans not so much........They box tomatoes, oranges, strawberries....your right that's exactly what a college educated American would rather be doing.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Pladuim
 





Here is a link with plenty of reading for you based on facts.


Read your post again.

The word ESTIMATE is not a FACT.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Guys, none of this matters to the OP and to liberals like him. They do not give a damn about their facts, only the ideology, and they're just too interested in getting the Hispanic vote.

So it's much useless to say all the stuff about illegal immigrants to him.

edit on 18-6-2012 by EvilSadamClone because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Benoit84

Your boyfriend's uncle shouldn't have to wait that long. I agree with you.

But here is the problem: no country has unlimited area and unlimited infrastructure. Thus no country, no area, can possibly hope to house the entire world. For that reason, there is a limit on how many people can legally come to America in a certain amount of time.

Your boyfriend's uncle would probably have a lot easier time coming here if so many were not wading the ditch illegally to break in line in front of him. It is supposed to be a nice orderly line.

Imagine a line at the checkout of your local grocery store. You pick out your purchases and get in a line to be checked out. Now someone jumps in front of you, then another jumps in front of you, then another, then another. When you complain and decide that you are not going to let anyone else get in front of you, the store's security shows up and forces you to stop interfering with everyone who is jumping in front of you.

Now someone says the line is too long, and you are happy to agree! But they want to make it a free-for all to get in line to 'solve' the problem; that is the very problem you are having now! And worse, because you got in line correctly, you are not allowed in the free-for-all!

OutKastSearcher is proposing that the entire immigration service be a free-for-all. He is the guy supporting the security guard who told you to back off. I am the guy saying "Wait a minute! This isn't fair!".

So who do you support?

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Pladuim
 





Here is a link with plenty of reading for you based on facts.


Read your post again.

The word ESTIMATE is not a FACT.


Don't you have anything better?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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In case anyone, including OS has some free time to read up on it. This site has some good numbers and statistics on crime rates and how much you and me the taxpayers are paying to house illegal immigrants in our prison system. Its stagering. And while I know not all of the illegals are criminals doesnt change the fact that a lot are.

www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by TheTardis
 



Wrong.. When you are a contractor at any construction site around here they DO NOT with hold taxes. Your considered a self employed contractor. Its very common and it happens all over the country. If you believe they are all gettting taxes taken from their checks you are being snowed by the government. But we all know that already.


No doubt some do it that way...but it puts the contractor at risk for being audited for misclassification.

If they get audited for that...they are going to owe a lot of back taxes.

But not all of them do it this way, and if they are doing it then the contractor is as much of the problem as the "illegal" is.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by kennylee
 


And they came right out and told you they are here illegally....right???

I love the stories people make up to justify their beliefs....so I'm interested to hear how you know they were all illegal.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by TheTardis
 



Wrong.. When you are a contractor at any construction site around here they DO NOT with hold taxes. Your considered a self employed contractor. Its very common and it happens all over the country. If you believe they are all gettting taxes taken from their checks you are being snowed by the government. But we all know that already.


No doubt some do it that way...but it puts the contractor at risk for being audited for misclassification.

If they get audited for that...they are going to owe a lot of back taxes.

But not all of them do it this way, and if they are doing it then the contractor is as much of the problem as the "illegal" is.


Who will owe back taxes? First and foremost. The employer did what they were legally obligated to do. That is how contract labor works. The worker probably has a fake SSN in which case the government cant audit someone that isnt real. So there is nothing to audit and its a win win for the employer.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Certainly you are so refined and contrite, that you make these assumptions out of the good of your heart? There is a group of Americans that are so self entitiled that they assume the rest just care to uphold the laws out of personal expedience, and these very same Americans believe some laws have more value than others, exspecially those that would hinder their own intent. Before you run around putting words in the mouth of Americans, you should re-evaluate your own personal depravity.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by TheTardis
 




Yes.. I'm the dumb one here. Your fighting a losing battle man. I found 4 examples in like 5 seconds. I dont have time to dig up the statistics but the fact that I even found 4 is enough for me. The 4 year old didnt have ot get raped if we didnt let them in. The 14 year old at that party didnt have to get raped either. So your ok with a 4 year old getting raped? What if it was your kid. I agree we have our own criminals idiot. Why would I want to deal with someone elses? I am assuming you live up north somewhere and dont have much of an illegal population so the crap coming out of your mouth is just stupid. You cant possibly be this blind. How about if you let a the guys that raped the little girls come live next door to you? I am done with you. Your defending the dumbest thing on earth at this point. You can try to make me look stupid all you want. Its your only defense because the issues here have been thrown in your face and you cant defend those. So resort to name calling as you always do.


Every subset of society has their criminals and horrible people.

But you are trying to define one particular group (demonize) by those few people.

Then you go into ridiculous arguments saying that I support people getting raped just because I won't define the group by the actions of a few individuals.

Or maybe we should throw all Priest in jail...you know...because they rape little boys.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 



Whereas an illegal can go with a fake SSN, and get on Medicaid, and not have to pay a dime for the same treatment, or more.


Medicaid fraud, medicare fraud, Social Security fraud are not unique to "illegals".

"illegals" don't do these things....criminals do these things....yes....even American citizens....shocking...I know.


But here we have another example of trying to demonize a group of people because the actions of some individuals from that group.





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