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The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5


So it is the "Civil" vs. "Federal" bit you are now contending?

Agreed then...it is not a "Criminal Act"...it is not a "Felony"...it is a "misdemeanor".

A Misdemeanor is a Criminal Act.
The action of crossing illegally, first offense is a FEDERAL MISDEMEANOR
The action of crossing illegally, second offense is a FEDERAL FELONY






Originally posted by Indigo5
I could care less whether it is a "Federal" misdemeanor or a "Civil" one...

That is obvious. What every is expedient for your heart strings I guess.




Originally posted by Indigo5
It is not a Felony like you and others infered.

Second offense of crossing is.



Originally posted by Indigo5
Again...no interest in this kind of BS debate where you retreat to Fed. vs. Civil, when the debate was whether or not it was a Felony offense along the lines "Burglery" like you originally contested.

It is a FELONY, second offense.



Originally posted by Indigo5
Dishonest crap...but certainly not unusual.

Glad to see you concede it is a "Misdemeanor" albiet while at the same claiming you never meant otherwise...


I will restate again, so it is crystal clear.
It is a Federal Misdemeanor, first offense, with criminal incarceration and civil penalties in the form of fines.
It is a Federal Felony, second offense, with criminal incarceration and civil penalties in the form of fines.

The act of just being here is the Civil portion, but most illegals can be charged with crossing the border on top of the Civil Statute, if it falls within statute of limitations, because the illegal can't just be produced from thin air.

The act of crossing should be an automatic Federal Felony, incarceration for 2 year in a work prison, then deportation. Every additional crossing should be time doubled.

The act of being here illegally should be an automatic Federal Misdemeanor, with fines imposed and deportation. Every additional act would be a double in fines from the last, with a 3 time max being the same as the crossing of the border.




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by macman
 


Way to turn this into a liberal-bashing festival.


Oh wait, that's 98% of the posts/threads on ATS!



Not my fault that most of what Liberals stand for now days basically goes against Law of the Land and the Constitution.
Instead of ruling your life via your emotions, why not apply some critical thinking.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Did your ancestors face an overly complicated, not to mention expensive system for becoming an US citizen?

Often, people come over illegally because either spent all of the money they had to be smuggled in or they never had much if anything to begin with!

Think about it.

WHY do they come over illegally?

Would they come over legally if they COULD?


From the illegals I have spoken to, they come here because..."we get so much more being here illegally", "I have no intention of becoming legal or staying here, once I save up enough, I'm moving back to my country."

One person now has ocean front property in their own country, another has a huge farm.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5



Oh I never said it was not illegal...I responded to the rants about how it is a "Felony" and equivelant to "robbing someone" etc.

Sure it is illegal...but we are not Iran...we distinguish between different offenses for a reason.



Oh, I guess that some illegal activates are just ok then. While others are not.

Way to be the poster child for selective enforcement of laws.


So mental note, become powerful enough and buddies with the current Admin, thus giving way to pushing my wants and what laws to enforce or not enforce.

YEAH most open and transparent Administration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


It does not matter why they came here ILLEGALLY.
If that is to be taken into account, then every person committing crime needs to be asked this, and judged accordingly, with law enforced as such as well.

Law of the Land turns into Law of Man.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by deadcatsrule

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I wonder what the Indians think about the illegal Immigrants that are over here to
!

being 1/2 American Indian we were beaten out by lies and fire power .To me not long be for Mexico does the same

I mean, if the Indians aren’t complaining over all the illegal immigrants that are over here ,than why should any body else complain, loll. I wouldn’t dare fit to open my mouth on a subject that holds no water to what reality is. Its obliviously funny to tell you the truth, I mean, how can people have a conversation like this on stolen land, and people have the nerve to voice there little thieving opinions on who should be over here.
Humans are funny and illogical.
edit on 19-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by The Sword

The premise of that question is that immigration into another country is a right; excessive regulation of that right then becomes an acceptable reason for allowing disobedience toward such regulation.

Your premise is incorrect; immigration is not a right, and never has been (entry into a country wherein one has citizenship is not immigration... sorry OKS, had to stop you cold on that one). It is a privilege afforded by countries toward non-citizens. The US allows more immigration from more countries than anywhere else in the world.

And yet, that is not enough. Despite this, we are still seen as the "bad guys" because we dare to ask for more than a spit in the eye when someone enters illegally.

I honestly don't know what else to say... I am truly dumbfounded at how many people can be so ignorant of legal terms while at the same time arguing in a legal debate. I am no lawyer - a good lawyer could probably have eaten my posts for breakfast. I am amazed at how many people openly and apparently deliberately ignore information for no other reason than it disqualifies their already erroneous conclusion. I am astonished at how much information is made up out of thin air to support a national policy shift that can have no other conclusion than destruction of the country itself if left uncurbed.

This is truly, truly sad.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by LastProphet527

The Indians' land was not stolen; that is an outright lie. According to the tribes I come from, no one owned the land, and no one could own the land. Land was not a commodity to them as it was to the Europeans.

If you insist on bringing up the Indian rights argument, at least know what it is you are talking about. To start with, in the early days of the colonies not all the aggression came from the Europeans... the native tribes gave out plenty of their own. The biggest conflict was over land and water: Indians believed no one could own land, that it could never be bought, sold, or owned because it was the planet itself. The Europeans put great value on land, prizing it for the ability to set up permanent structures on it. The Europeans also tried to tame the wilderness, interfering with natural water flow and often overhunting areas. This upset the Indians because they were dependent on that water and wildlife for their existence.

The main advantage of the Europeans was they could fight as a team to bring about a common goal. The Indian tribes were not experienced at this. The one time they did manage to fight as a unified army, they won decisively... ask General Custer.

The Europeans did not come into the Americas illegally; the Indians had no law against them coming. Many of the original settlers were actually welcomed by the natives. They also did not come in order to find jobs; they came to find a new life. The illegal immigrants are not seeking a life; they are seeking money and possessions. There is a huge difference between the two.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Did you really have to get personal with your reply?

Where in my post did I imply that immigration was a right?

I'm trying to say that if people could afford to come over legally, they would do so. Because they cannot, they risk life and limb just to come over illegally. Who profits? The smugglers. Who turns the blind eye here? The U.S Government.

I'm not disagreeing on the last part.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Believer101
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Now see, that was all just your opinion. Since you shared your opinion, I'll share mine.
My problem with Immigrants, illegal or not, is the fact that they push their country down our throats (Mexicans, mainly). They expect US to speak Spanish, put Spanish on everything, celebrate THEIR holidays, and the fact that they're always going on about how great their country is. If they expect us to welcome them, they need to be AMERICAN, learn English, and respect our country.

Another thing I have a problem with is the fact that they are sucking our country dry. They have child after child after child so they get paid for their kids by the government. They also get free education where we (AMERICANS) don't, they get paid to live here when we (AMERICANS) don't, they get free healthcare where we (AMERICANS) don't.

Plus, there are also all of those who are drug runners, thugs, criminals, and downright rude people. I got shoved down in Walmart today by a Mexican man all because I was "in his way" while grabbing some Ranch Dressing from the shelf. My family friends house was broken into the other day by her neighbors (Mexicans). They didn't take anything, but they shredded every piece of clothing, destroyed their furniture, and wrote "American Scum" on their living room wall.

Now, if they want to be treated equal and like Americans, they need to show us a little more respect.

Granted, there are those few who actually want to be American, that come here legally, that actually take the time to learn English, and have respect for ALL of us here. But, those do not extinguish those I mentioned above. The one's who actually have respect, I respect back. Those that do what I mentioned above, I despise with a passion.


First of all, calm down Hitler, just because we aren't american, doesn't mean we arent allowed to celebrate OUR holidays. We are proud to be Mexican and we don't shove anything down your throat. Corporations do, so take it up with them.

Second, I see the biggest crackheads leeching off your government, and oh, what's this, most of them are americans?! I like talking to homeless people, and you'll be amazed at how they collect Disability or SSI on some false basis because they don't want to work.

We do not have child after child just for your government to pay. You're assuming and your hiding behind your so called opinion because you have a hatred for mexicans obviously. Illegal immigrants CANNOT GET ANYTHING from the government for FREE as you claim. Their children do, if they are born here because they are entitled to it, being american citizens just like you and I.

In case you have forgotten this country also had Al Capone, Jeffree Dahmer, Charles Manson, shall I continue? You have as much drug runners, murderers as any country so stop pointing the finger at mexicans.

I've been pushed and have faught plenty of american women for being rude to me and pushing me at walmart, kmart etc. No one will push me around because I am Mexican, the reason why many of us are violent is because of people like you. You make assumptions and act on them. Most of us are good people but you give us a bad name. You fill people's minds with lies, and propaganda to spread hatred. Their isn't a few of us who do things the legal way, their are thousands of us. And for the few bad apples you try and crucify us. Thanks alot.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by kyoiism
I don't hate immigrants, but I don't like the fact that Mexican and other Central/South American nationals cross into our country illegally. I understand they want to make decent money for themselves and family, but why not do it the legal way? and become a U.S citizen? I just get the feeling they don't care about the United States of American and our culture, except for working and sending USD to their native country.

I just saw a story on how Asian immigrants have overtaken Hispanics, and how a kid from Thailand who didn't speak a lick of English 4 years ago became Class Victorian, his parents wanted something better for their child so they moved here the legal way, and their child now speaks fluent English.

My generation is simply lacking in morals and work ethic rather be rappers or something else that doesn't benefit our country....It's just sad hopefully just a fad or phase, but doesn't look to good for us.
edit on 19-6-2012 by kyoiism because: (no reason given)


Seriously? Because it takes YEARS and YEARS to become legal. That's why. We love this country and all the opportunities, get the lies out of your eyes man.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


We are here to seek a new life. Obviously you don't care enough to talk to any good Mexican Immigrants. Yeah, they're gonna risk their life crossing El Rio Grande, days in the desert, avoiding the Border Patrol just for money, and not to seek a better life. Great theory.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by WelcomeToMyMachine
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


We are here to seek a new life. Obviously you don't care enough to talk to any good Mexican Immigrants. Yeah, they're gonna risk their life crossing El Rio Grande, days in the desert, avoiding the Border Patrol just for money, and not to seek a better life. Great theory.


Of course there are good mexicans, there are also those who come here illegaly displacing american citizens in the workforce. Citizens are struggling and suffering because of uncontrolled illegal immigration. Citizens want a better life too, but arn't getting it. It is one thing to have sympathy and compassion for foreigners as we do, it is quite another to ignore the plight of the american citizen and what it is doing to them.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by WelcomeToMyMachine
reply to post by TheRedneck
 


We are here to seek a new life. Obviously you don't care enough to talk to any good Mexican Immigrants. Yeah, they're gonna risk their life crossing El Rio Grande, days in the desert, avoiding the Border Patrol just for money, and not to seek a better life. Great theory.


Who has a problem with good Mexican Immigrants??? I don't know where on this thread I have read that, could you kindly point it out???? I see a lot of people having problem with ILLEGAL Immigrants or do you not know the difference????



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by The Sword

The implication that immigration was a right was the only way the post made sense. And I didn't realize I said anything that would be considered "getting personal".

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Doesn`t it boil down to this:




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by LastProphet527

The Indians' land was not stolen; that is an outright lie. According to the tribes I come from, no one owned the land, and no one could own the land. Land was not a commodity to them as it was to the Europeans.

If you insist on bringing up the Indian rights argument, at least know what it is you are talking about. To start with, in the early days of the colonies not all the aggression came from the Europeans... the native tribes gave out plenty of their own. The biggest conflict was over land and water: Indians believed no one could own land, that it could never be bought, sold, or owned because it was the planet itself. The Europeans put great value on land, prizing it for the ability to set up permanent structures on it. The Europeans also tried to tame the wilderness, interfering with natural water flow and often overhunting areas. This upset the Indians because they were dependent on that water and wildlife for their existence.

The main advantage of the Europeans was they could fight as a team to bring about a common goal. The Indian tribes were not experienced at this. The one time they did manage to fight as a unified army, they won decisively... ask General Custer.

The Europeans did not come into the Americas illegally; the Indians had no law against them coming. Many of the original settlers were actually welcomed by the natives. They also did not come in order to find jobs; they came to find a new life. The illegal immigrants are not seeking a life; they are seeking money and possessions. There is a huge difference between the two.

TheRedneck





The illegal immigrants are not seeking a life; they are seeking money and possessions.

Are you................I mean...I am really. Stuck!
Can you provide a source for this information, statistic perhaps?
Was it a poll that I missed or something ? I mean, is this 100% of all-illegal’s that you think ,think like this,or just half, or 20% ,or 37.8%.Its very illogical to say or think what you are thinking, it makes no sense.you say it as if its 100% of all that come over here just want money and possessions,and doesnt a new life consist of money and having possessions?


The biggest conflict was over land and water: Indians believed no one could own land, that it could never be bought, sold, or owned because it was the planet itself.




because it was the planet itself.


Self explanatory !
Your 100% right, thats all i have to say




The Indians' land was not stolen; that is an outright lie. According to the tribes I come from, no one owned the land, and no one could own the land. Land was not a commodity to them as it was to the Europeans.

The quote above the quote speaks for it self,its nothing more to say.
edit on 19-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-6-2012 by LastProphet527 because: had to add somting



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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I have to say - A FLAG AND STAR FOR THIS THREAD

Now I know that some people that know me here on ATS are going wait, what? But yes, I love this thread. This thread shows that these lefties are not for the people at all. These people are only supportive of you , IF you agree to their agenda. If you happen to disagree, then you are to be discarded.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Did the Italians, Irish and Chinese sneak across the border???

I can't seem to recall that......................


edit on 19-6-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)


Actually many did. For exampleThe derogatory slur for Italians ,wop stood for "with out papers" due to the fact many of them came here illegally.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by paganini

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Did the Italians, Irish and Chinese sneak across the border???

I can't seem to recall that......................


edit on 19-6-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)


Actually many did. For exampleThe derogatory slur for Italians ,wop stood for "with out papers" due to the fact many of them came here illegally.



And they were sneaking across the southern border? Or just came before Ellis Island was operational?




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