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The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Lets look at what the link you posted states.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -


(Shall be SUBJECT TO A CIVIL PENALTY) That usually means a fine. Oh wait, keep reading and it defines that.



(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Geez Wally, I think you forgot to read that as well.




posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Did the Italians, Irish and Chinese sneak across the border???

I can't seem to recall that......................


edit on 19-6-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)


Then you should read some history...Immigration laws were rarely enforced until the great depression and then they were relaxed again when we entered WW1 and WW2 and we needed labor as we sent troops off to war.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by TheTardis

When they turn a 12-15 Dollar per hour skilled labor job into a $4 per hour job with no benefits it certainly does take a job and income away from someone else.


You can not be so dull as to not know the difference between an employer and employee?

They do not "turn a job" into anything. They do not dictate thier wage...and if they could they would not leave Mexico.

It is the employer who makes the hiring decision....not the employee.

AND...you sound awfully "union", "anti-free market" and "socialist" to me...endorsing the US Government interfering with free market labor supply and demand.
edit on 19-6-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)


And you cannot be so DULL as to think that that employer is still going to pay an american 12-15 per hour when they can hire an illegal for much less. I never said that the illegal dictated the wage. I implied that they drove the wage down. NOt sure how that makes me dull but I have been called worse.

And I absolutely despise unions. I think they are what is wrong with our country today. You have me very wrong sir. I am for fair wages. Unions drive the wages way too high. I live in a town where American Airlines has a huge presence and those guys get paid way more than they should. But on the other hand we have a ton of immigrants who drive the non union labor jobs down to nearly nothing. There is no in between. But do not try to lable me as a Socialist or pro union. My point is that without the illegal workers, if all were documented workers the employers would have to get back to fair wages. Do you not agree with that?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Please provide from the statute where it states specifically that it is a "Civil" Misdemeanor.

You really have no clue as to the difference, do you?

Civil Court is a 51% of the preponderance of evidence against the accused. It does not carry Imprisonment time. It carries usually a penalty in the form of a fine.

Civil court also means law suits, divorce or other issues outside of enforcement of CRIMINAL law.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by TheTardis
 


Illegal immigration is a Civil matter, which means it's ruled by Civil Law not Criminal Law. Immigration cases are heard in front of an administrative law judge for the BCIS not a criminal judge.

An illegal alien has broken a law, but a civil one, not a criminal law therefore is not a criminal per se.

It is not a felony.

First offense is a Civil Law violation, second offense can be prosecuted as a "crime" though not neccessarily a Felony.

codes.lp.findlaw.com...


Not Necessarily but yet it still is and can be tried as a Felony. Here is the Federal law on the subject. Its pretty cut and dry. There are both Civil and Federal Penalties. However this administration has been quick to point out that it is not up to the states to impose the civil penalties that it is a federal matter. Arizona is a great example of that. Cant have it both ways people. Its either Federal or its not.

www.gpo.gov...



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Geez Wally, I think you forgot to read that as well.




Oh please...you are hanging on to a flat-earth argument.

The far right GOP members of the House have tried to make immigration a "felony" as opposed to a civil offense a few different times over the last few years. Why bother if it was already a "Felony"???? Are the lawmakers confused????

As for your last bit...it means what it states..."NOT IN LIEU"...meaning an illegal immigrant arrested for burglerly is still on the hook for "burglerly" and his deportation or civil offense does not absolve him of that prosecution.

Flat Earth....I have provided tons of links...from legal to even anti-immigration sites explaining it is a Civil Offense... and yet you cling to minutia and opinion.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Civil Court is a 51% of the preponderance of evidence against the accused. It does not carry Imprisonment time. It carries usually a penalty in the form of a fine.

Civil court also means law suits, divorce or other issues outside of enforcement of CRIMINAL law.


You can't go to jail due to a civil offense? Is that what you are clinging to? So if you refuse to pay a fine?



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5


Then you should read some history...Immigration laws were rarely enforced until the great depression and then they were relaxed again when we entered WW1 and WW2 and we needed labor as we sent troops off to war.


Oh really???
Is that why Mass amounts of people were quarantined due to small pox and such before they came in?

Or why Ellis Island had such a huge influx of peoples names in some weird record book???

Lax enforcement is what we have today.

All you did was deflect my question.

I do not recall history showing that those people were sneaking across the Southern Border.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5


Oh please...you are hanging on to a flat-earth argument.

Ah, the "Flat Earther" slander.
One of the last straws for a frustrated Liberal with nothing to fall back on.






Originally posted by Indigo5
The far right GOP members of the House have tried to make immigration a "felony" as opposed to a civil offense a few different times over the last few years. Why bother if it was already a "Felony"???? Are the lawmakers confused????

Federal Felony for second offense.
Federal Misdemeanor for First, with Civil Penalties.

It should be a Felony, first offense. With 2 years in a work prison, then deported back to country of origin.
What a great way to start off your new life as an Illegal. First step? Break the Federal Law of the Country you want to live in. Because you know, you want a better life and all.
Second step? Break the law so you can get documents to work here ILLEGALLY.

Shall I continue?






Originally posted by Indigo5
As for your last bit...it means what it states..."NOT IN LIEU"...meaning an illegal immigrant arrested for burglerly is still on the hook for "burglerly" and his deportation or civil offense does not absolve him of that prosecution.

Flat Earth....I have provided tons of links...from legal to even anti-immigration sites explaining it is a Civil Offense... and yet you cling to minutia and opinion.


Your links provide legal statute, yet you can't provide where it states specifically that it is the magical "Civil Misdemeanor".

I am also looking for Unicorn Tears. Do you have any????

Your relying on Google and Backseat Law is very funny, but sad at the same time.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by macman

Civil Court is a 51% of the preponderance of evidence against the accused. It does not carry Imprisonment time. It carries usually a penalty in the form of a fine.

Civil court also means law suits, divorce or other issues outside of enforcement of CRIMINAL law.


You can't go to jail due to a civil offense? Is that what you are clinging to? So if you refuse to pay a fine?


The refusal to pay a fine is a separate issue.

Nice try though.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Indigo5


Then you should read some history...Immigration laws were rarely enforced until the great depression and then they were relaxed again when we entered WW1 and WW2 and we needed labor as we sent troops off to war.



Or why Ellis Island had such a huge influx of peoples names in some weird record book???

I do not recall history showing that those people were sneaking across the Southern Border.



Ellis Island opened in 1892...with a small two story stopping post...Do you think Chinese immigrants working the railroads and gold mines of California arrived at Ellis Island? "Legal" Immigration was a rarity up until the World Wars...Most folks simply arrived and then at some point applied for citizenship.

As far as a history showing people sneaking across the southern border?

Hell Yes...all the time. Even Mitt Romney's father....

See here for a history of Illegal Immigration on the southern border...
civilliberty.about.com...



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Not people of Chinese, Irish or Italian descent.
But, People of Mexican heritage.

WOW, you just blew that out of the water.


Again, the lax enforcement of the law is why we are having an issue.
The immigration law, as it stands today, is the law of the land. Not what it was, or what was enforced in the 1890's.

And on topic, in regards to 0bama, the usurping of Law and Congress is pretty disgusting.
And spare me the fall back argument of "Well Bush did it".
Bush is neither here nor there.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Indigo5


Oh please...you are hanging on to a flat-earth argument.

Ah, the "Flat Earther" slander.
One of the last straws for a frustrated Liberal with nothing to fall back on.



I'll leave you to your own reality...again I have cited every source from law to sites on the left AND RIGHT and everyone in the know seems to understand the law...First time offense is a CIVIL matter, second offenses felony.

Try this....Were the House GOP Lawmakers confused when they tried to pass this bill in 2005????



Illegal Immigration Could Be a Felony

House Republicans push legislation that defies Bush's guest-worker plan, under which criminals are not eligible for legal status.

December 15, 2005|Nicole Gaouette | Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Under immigration legislation being considered in the House, living illegally in the United States would no longer be a violation of civil immigration law. It would be a federal crime.

But making the nation's estimated 11 million illegal immigrants into felons could deal a fatal blow to the proposed guest-worker program that is a cornerstone of President Bush's immigration overhaul, because immigrants who have committed crimes are not eligible for legal status in the United States.

articles.latimes.com...

Flat Earth....Or delusion...whatever...reality disagrees with your claim that first offenders - Illegal Immigration is a Felony. It is a CIVIL Violation.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5


As far as a history showing people sneaking across the southern border?

Hell Yes...all the time. Even Mitt Romney's father....

See here for a history of Illegal Immigration on the southern border...
civilliberty.about.com...


But, I thought there was no enforcement of the law. Why sneak then????



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by macman

And on topic, in regards to 0bama, the usurping of Law and Congress is pretty disgusting.
And spare me the fall back argument of "Well Bush did it".
Bush is neither here nor there.


I see you are abandoning your claim in favor of a good old "Obama the Dictator" theme...

I think that might be as close to you admitting you were completely wrong as I am going to get...best wishes to you on the next line of BS.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


You have provided nothing stating it is a "Civil Misdemeanor" in Federal Statute Form.
You provided some nifty sites with some opinion based statements, but still no "Civil Misdemeanor".


I will have my Unicorn Tears now please.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Indigo5


As far as a history showing people sneaking across the southern border?

Hell Yes...all the time. Even Mitt Romney's father....

See here for a history of Illegal Immigration on the southern border...
civilliberty.about.com...


But, I thought there was no enforcement of the law. Why sneak then????



God help me..."sneak" was your word...not mine ..I was referencing your post....later..



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by macman

And on topic, in regards to 0bama, the usurping of Law and Congress is pretty disgusting.
And spare me the fall back argument of "Well Bush did it".
Bush is neither here nor there.


I see you are abandoning your claim in favor of a good old "Obama the Dictator" theme...

I think that might be as close to you admitting you were completely wrong as I am going to get...best wishes to you on the next line of BS.


Um, no again.

Just looking at the original topic.

Still no "Civil Misdemeanor" statute.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


So you admit that it is a Felony then? Good then were clear. The problem is that most of them when deported do come back. Check the statistics. The problem here is that according to the federal government it is their job to enforce these laws and not the states so it automatically becomes a federal offense. The federal government does not deal with civil matters. So its a catch 22 that has turned into no one doing anything.



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


You used it as well.
But, since it does not work in your points, you refute it.


I will take some Leprechaun Gold with my Unicorn Tears. And a side of "Civil Misdemeanor" statute.

edit on 19-6-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)



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