The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

All those living in the USA whose relatives/ancestors did not come from another country but were already here, please raise your hands!

When your relatives/ancestors came here the first time, what do you think they were doing? You don't think they work for less in order to get by until many many years and perhaps a few generations until they became successful?

If your great, great, great, great, great, great grand parents could tell you the story of their lives when they first went to the USA, you will see the similarities of what we now see with immigrants and with what they went through.

You are now acting the same way those acted upon your ancestors when they first arrived in the USA!

reply to post by RSF77

Stupid idea.

If you want to destroy the US economy then that would be a good way to do it, keep going after small business and the ability to start one. It's not like the deck isn't already stacked against small business owners.

So you are fine with them breaking the law and exploiting workers who are in a difficult situation???

Without these businesses hiring "illegals"...we really wouldn't have a problem...would we?

But of course...you would rather just place all the blame on the people just looking for a better life.

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Maybe you should hate the crooked employers who are American citizens instead of the people just trying to provide for their families.

Uh... I'm trying to provide for my family? What gives?

So you think these "crooked employers" are "crooked" for hiring people illegally that are trying to provide for their families?

Seriously, wtf are you talking about? I'm done participating in this garbage.

edit on 18-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

It's not that hard to understand...the "crime" an "illegal" commits is crossing the border...not working for a very low wage.

The "crime" on the job end is all on the employers end...they know they are hiring illegals...they know they are paying them a low wage...they are the ones that should be charged with crimes.

If these people wouldn't exploit people looking for a better life and paying them crap wages, we wouldn't have the issue of people crying about their jobs being "stolen".

reply to post by TheEnlightenedOne

None of my ancestors came over illegally. All of them except for two branches came over legally and worked hard to become an American, not to get what they could and high-tail it back home.

Those two branches that didn't were already here: Cherokee and Creek

TheRedneck

reply to post by Golf66

What makes America if not its borders - didn't you call them "made-up"? Call yourself an American and live elsewhere then if you don't like the idea of borders. It is after all one of the definitions of a country - to have an identifiable border.

An idea, values, freedom, opportunity.

So yeah...borders do not define America...that is stupid.

As for the cry racism issue - I think perhaps I was confusing the other three threads on the same topic in which you stated quite plainly American's are racists. I guess guilt by association in this case, my mistake. However, look up any comment by you and you can find more often than not the race card.

I'll call out a racist when I see someone make a racist statement. I have never said all Americans are racist...go find the post if you want to say I did.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

I've answered this over and over...employers who hire "illegals" should be come down on hard. And then we should make it very easy for people to come in legally or with a work permit so employers can legally hire them for at least minimum wage.

I don't support for the current system to continue where "illegals" are taken advantage of for greedy Americans to profit off of...but I refuse to place the blame on people just looking for a better life like people on this forum want to do.

Okay. Those are fair and valid points, and I dont disagree.

Thanks for you reply.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Please show me where I "played the race card".

The only people bringing up race are those that are against immigration.

You said we hate all immigrants.. The immigrants we are talking about are usually Mexicans. Put the two together.

Correction. We are against illegal immigration? Sure. Legal immigration. The system needs to be fixed. Your dictator barry will not change things for the better, he basically did this for political reasons. A real President would have worked with people like rubio who was working on a plan ANYWAY!!!!!

Originally posted by jjf3rd77

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

Please show me where I "played the race card".

The only people bringing up race are those that are against immigration.

Correction. We are against illegal immigration? Sure. Legal immigration. The system needs to be fixed. Your dictator barry will not change things for the better, he basically did this for political reasons. A real President would have worked with people like rubio who was working on a plan ANYWAY!!!!!

That's just delusional and absurd partisanship. The Republicans have NEVER done anything to make substantive changes to immigration. Bush had 8 years to do so, and instead proposed Amnesty.

The Republicans have no more interest in fixing illegal immigration than the Dems. Rubio included. They are all owed by the same corporations who benefit from illegal labor.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher
howdy Outcast, after reading your OP, i'd have to agree with some, not all.
however, in this, you are correct

That is what it all comes down to...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.

yep, i concur, DETERMINED criminals are just that, determined.
however, American citizens are ENTITLED (Constitutionally even) to protection from said criminals, so, what was your point again ??

ah that's right ... Americans can't handle the competition

Originally posted by sylvie
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Of course that's a generalization, but otherwise you're totally correct. I'm a (legal) immigrant myself (now a US citizen), and I was shocked to see that my various employers over the years nearly kissed my feet just because...

- I showed up on time every day
- I didn't call in sick all the time (actually, almost never)
- I tried to do the best job I possibly could
- I was honest, reliable and responsible

To me, those are the absolute bare-bone basics, not a job qualification. Here in America, that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case, though.

Yes, it doesn't take much to be a stellar employee these days.

I take projects and my clients ask if I can have it done in two weeks...I kind of look at them funny and say "It can be done tomorrow"...they think I'm joking until I deliver and it is exactly to specs and more in some cases...they are floored and I have a new client for life.

The clients workers hate me...but oh well...not my fault they are slackers and I can do 10 times the work they can and at better quality.

Your situation is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

reply to post by RSF77


You are not the only person with native blood that feels this way. We are a minority though in my experience. The blame game is much easier to play than the improve game is by a long shot.

Trucking, being my main source of income, has led me to all 49 States, driving, and pretty well covered both the physical nation and the one, missed by many, the time span when immigration wasn't so massive, also nation-wide.

A xenophobic culture or a wide-open,incredibly fast changing culture where the morals/rules change almost daily.

Neither is desirable, in my opinion. Where to draw the line? Most feel the original line was just fine. Go through the hoops, qualitfy yourself to enter the U.S. and you'll be "welcome".

What makes it worse is we can't fall back on the constitution on this issue. The "mentality" of bring your weak, bring your ill, we will take you, can no longer be done, for many reasons.

Most people are NOT anti-immigration as their parents, grandparents were also immigrants and understand. So lets kill that idea right now as anything or anyone that suggests otherwise is playing a political mind game and we know better.

The drugs, gangs etc. were inevitable. Consider the large immigrants from Ireland, Italy, the formations of the Mafia, etc. When a large number immigrate, they feel more comforable with people and cultures they know. The parents, who usually both work, end up leaving their kids improperly attended. They end up unsupervised and the wrong people being their role models.

Nothing new in that regard. it's the sheer volume that's the problem now.

With the fight between the "let's face it, we will be the minority in this country" (caucasians) liberals vs the "we are a Judeo-Christian country, that's what built this great nation and we should preserve it" conservatives.

Both are correct! If we aren't going to be an xenophobic nation, eventually we will be a minority. It is also correct that the immigrants have no idea what we as a nation went through to get where we are. Wars, depressions, tough times and sacrifice.

We are undefined. We no longer can define who and what we are or even what we want to be in the future. Until we can do that, the valid arguments on both sides are useless. It won't resolve.

It may be that we will never resolve it. Is it too late?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

It's not that hard to understand...the "crime" an "illegal" commits is crossing the border...not working for a very low wage.

this is just pure nonsense cause Identity Theft tops the charts with these people.
then you can add, IRS fraud, Mecaid fraud, fraudulent dealings with fraudulent documentation for ill gotten gains shipped elsewhere. "it's only a crime in the beginning", exists in fantasy land, nowhere else.

The "crime" on the job end is all on the employers end...they know they are hiring illegals...they know they are paying them a low wage...they are the ones that should be charged with crimes.

hmmm, identity theft to get the job but i guess the employers fault too, right ?
tax fraud to get paid from the job but again, that's all on the employer.
and what about the wide variety of illegal dealings the illegal immigrants are coerced into participating in just so they won't be deported ??
heck, they don't even report the crimes against them either.
both sides are gutless wonders

and yes, the employers should be charged accordingly but they aren't the ones working the jobs that have been "stolen" are they ??

If these people wouldn't exploit people looking for a better life and paying them crap wages, we wouldn't have the issue of people crying about their jobs being "stolen".

if the illegal immigrants weren't available to exploit, it would be difficult to achieve wouldn't it ??
amazingly, thousands upon thousands of jobs would immediately become available to unemployed Americans and i don't see much wrong with that.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

So yeah...borders do not define America...that is stupid.

well, it doesn't get any sillier than that.
America is a continent defined by its borders, always has been always will be.
America also encompasses a multitude of Nations also identified via their physical borders, many of them ... so, if not her borders, then what "defines" America ??

if not by recognition of the borders, how do you identify America on a map ??
how can you determine if you are located in North or South America if you do not consider their borders ??

what defines the continent/country/nation in which you are currently located ??

reply to post by TheRedneck

So crime is just fine as long as only a few people do it?

Yeah, doesn't make sense to say that... but it is as accurate a portrayal of your statement as your portrayals are of mine.

You don't define a group by the actions of a few, unless you are trying to demonize that group to encite hate.

It depends on the people, duh. And there is a very good reason why criminals would want to come here, if they are wanted fugitives in their own country.

Yes...because the best place to hid is being an illegal in America

You know those things called maps? Take a look at one sometime. Think of it like a picture of the planet. The United States has only two land borders: Canada and Mexico. Of those two, Canada's border doesn't seem to be overrun with illegal immigrants like Mexico's border with us is.

You do realize a lot of immigrants come from Central America...right???

But go ahead and continue to make this all about one countries citizens...you know...a boogeyman works better if you can clearly label who people are supposed to hate.

I was referring to crimes committed in the past that would lead one to suspect that the person in question would be apt to commit more in the future.

You are purposely trying to be obtuse here.

If an American citizen commits a crime...do we strip them of citizenshipe and deport them? Or do we have them server their punishment...and then give them another shot???

Why should it be different with immigrants???

More obtuseness... that doesn't even deserve an answer.

No, you just dont' want to answer it because you know you are wrong.

I'll let you try again...go find me the punishment an individual will recieve if they work for less than minimum wage.

Sorry, sir, I have every claim to what my parents did, just as my children have every claim to what I do. It is called "inheritance", and it has been the law of the land since before your great-grandfather was born.

No you don't.

You only get that "ingeritance" if your parents say you do...they could leave it all to charity if they wanted to and you don't have a damn thing to say about it.

It is not the law that you automatically get everything of your parents....please tell me you don't honestly believe that.

No, I am not entitled to a job... but I am entitled to at least the same freedoms as those who waded the ditch, the same opportunities as those who waded a ditch, the benefits I pay for when needed more than those who waded a ditch, and to have my culture protected from invasion by the Federal government I pay through taxes to do just that.

You have the freedom to have the same opportunities...it's your choice not to seize them.

You are not entitled to have you "culture protected" by the Federal government Please show me where in the Constitution it says the government will protect culture...that is just ridiculous and hilarious.

More obtuseness and more spin... do you get this stuff directly from the DNC or MSNBC? You certainly haven't thought it out very well.

Apparently it is thought out enough to have you dodging and avoiding questions and for you to go for the personal insults.

Why is that...don't have any valid arguments???

Eh... I don't think smarts has much to do with it, but you're definitely right about everything else. Immigrants generally work harder for less. It's sad to see. Americans used to be known for their hard work and labor, but nowadays, it's totally opposite. We're known for being the fattest laziest country ever.

I'm all about American pride, but... that is embarrassing.

This is a prime example as to why we need not only reform but a huge change in how our immigration system works. We make it so difficult for people to come to this country, hence we get people coming here illegally. Not only that but we give illegal immigrants a lot of incentives to come here because they think they can feed off of our government, but this is a common misconception that we tend to put upon immigrants. Most of the time many of these immigrants want to be working and productive citizens of the United States but like I stated before the current system for immigrant people to get to the US is flawed in many ways. We allowed tons of people to immigrate from Europe during the world wars in a system that seemed better than the one put into place now making it so hard for working and brilliant families come to the US to make it better. Immigrants are the backbone of the US and you can't deny it for somewhere along the line your family immigrated to this wonderful country for a better life.

Yes we have laws and at times we should abide to them knowing that they do not infringe with anyone's freedom be it citizen or not!, but sometimes many of the laws put into place by our politicians are flawed. You say that Many of these parents had more than enough time to go through the proper channels and chose not to. That's just the biggest misconception most Americans are not informed on their own immigration system. our current system is based on a lottery and has not checks and balances it doesn't ask the former country for any criminal record or anything of that matter.

The immigration system should be made for people that are hard working and for people that are highly intellectual to make this country better.

We need to also cut incentives for immigrants to come here illegally like, free health care for illegal immigrants, they cant work here with our proper documentation, and also no government freebees. Only until then can we fix our immigration problem that and the question arises "Well then people are going to be coming to the US uncontrollably and over populate America" One of the main reasons that people come to the US are because of poverty and most of that but not all of it is due to many companies owned by American Corporations in Latin America where most of the immigration comes from; are treating the workers there like slaves paying them close to nothing and have no way or means to go up higher up in the economic ladder just to benefit their pockets causing an imbalance of classes in much of Latin America, its called imperialism people!

Not until all these problems are fixed will we be able to have an adequate system to work for all of us.

reply to post by Believer101

Now see, that was all just your opinion. Since you shared your opinion, I'll share mine.
My problem with Immigrants, illegal or not, is the fact that they push their country down our throats (Mexicans, mainly). They expect US to speak Spanish, put Spanish on everything, celebrate THEIR holidays, and the fact that they're always going on about how great their country is. If they expect us to welcome them, they need to be AMERICAN, learn English, and respect our country.

Where are you expected to speak Spanish

And they aren't the ones "putting Spanish" on everything...companies do it because they want their business...if you don't like it...take it up with those particular companies or boycott them.

And oh no...they celebrate their holidays...good thing the Irish don't do that (st. patricks day)...or the germans (oktober fest)....or the french (mardi gras). But those damn Mexicans...celebrating Cinco De Mayo...you know...the day where all the white people go to Mexican restaurants and drink Margaritas and all the Mexicans have to work and serve them....damn them.

Another thing I have a problem with is the fact that they are sucking our country dry. They have child after child after child so they get paid for their kids by the government. They also get free education where we (AMERICANS) don't, they get paid to live here when we (AMERICANS) don't, they get free healthcare where we (AMERICANS) don't.

Those children are your fellow American citizens...show some respect for you fellow countrymen

Plus, there are also all of those who are drug runners, thugs, criminals, and downright rude people.

Demonize, Demonize, Demonize.

Hate, Hate, Hate.

And please tell me...the person who pushed you down at Walmart ....how did you know he was an illegal immigrant???

I swear...these people must wear signs that I just don't see...because you guys seem to be able to pick out an "illegal" just by looking at them.

reply to post by SheopleNation

But I thought we lazy Americans were afraid of competing with hard working illegals and that is why we are against illegal immigration? Now we are back to Americans not wanting those jobs? Jeezus, which is it bro?

Oh, Americans would take that job...but they just think they deserve $40 an hour for such hard work.

Good luck with that.

Talk about a walking contradiction my friend. You flip and flop around more than a fish out of water. What exactly is your position? And how many more times do I need to post a response to your drivel until you finally stop ignoring them and respond yourself? You brought up the subject of discussion, so let's discuss it?

Sorry, you have to wait in line like everyone else...I'll get to you in order.

Your "points" aren't really that great...tame that ego of yours

reply to post by Hr2burn

My personal opinion? That there is people willing to do jobs for less money, no benefits, no rights etc are the problems.

Wouldn't the problem be the employers that are giving them jobs and paying them less money, no benefits, and no rights???

Why do you want to place all the blame on the person just wanting to provide for their family??? Why don't you place the blame on the greedy bastards that want to exploit that person???

There is also the other side of the issue. Along with at least the Mexican immigrants, there is an increased gang/drug/crime rings. Look at much of what is in the headlines in Mexico, if we don't get a handle, those will be our headlines.

Yes yes...I know...demonize demonize demonize...hate hate hate.

I get it...it's been said over and over in this thread...immigrants are the boogeyman.