The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

reply to post by 0ptw0

The more people that are here, the less chance you have of a positive opportunity; the people taking away positive opportunities are breaking the rules and are being allowed to play the same game you are.

So you are afraid of competition...this was exactly my point.

And yes...it is selfish...and a sense of entitlement.

Originally posted by CynicalWabbit
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Your post is total rubbish and bull$h_t, where are your sources for these outrageous claims, what experience do you have with illegals ? As usual you are just spouting rubbish to justify what Obama did. Go schill somewhere else

Have you not read this thread?

My point has been proven over and over by people in this very thread.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Look our minimum wage is due to the hard fought battle of blue-collar workers and the unions that represent them. It should not disappear like a fart in wind (hat-tip Shawshank) because workers from more desperate nations come in and subvert our system of supply and demand.

I have said from my first week on ATS and I say today - the only one who benefits from illegal workers is Corporate America. They work for crap and spend at least some of their paycheck here (usually Wal Mart) before leaving or wiring the money. In the mean time, they drive down wages, suck local state and federal resources, cripple our health and education system and bring in third world diseases and social issues.

It's not fearful, racist or jealous to call bull on that.

Mr (or ms) OutKast- I'd like to restate I point I made to you earlier, which I was hoping you might offer your thoughts on.

I think all the obvious xenophobia and racism are distractions for the Left to not see that illegal immigration subverts their own purported goals of higher wages and protections for workers. In that sense, it is a mechanism of corporate control. They allow the borders to be open (no Republicans ever do anything about it either. Not at the Federal level.) so they can drive down wages and worker protections.

It's a major sticking point I have with a lot of my liberal friends. They simply see it as something to embrace because they only see the racism associated with people's fear of immigrants for myriad political/social reasons, many valid, many absurd. But in reality, immigration enforcement along with reasonable reform makes a lot of sense for those who seek to ensure American workers are well protected.

I think demanding for enforcement of immigration makes a lot of sense for the traditional leftest, even if its from a different perspective than the social conservatives reasons. In many ways, I think, the goal is actually the same.

ETA: Unless, of course, the ultimate goal is about erasing the borders we have created between the relative prosperity of even the middle class with that of the often abject poverty of the nations much of our collective wealth has actually been accumulated by exploitation, if even just indirectly. But you'll be hard pressed to find an American liberal who is really willing to give up their corner of the empire for any real global economic equality.

What competition? They don't adhere to our laws and don't pay tax, how can you compete? They get section 8 housing, foodstamps out the wazoo and all of their money is wired home while they're sucking off a system that is paying them to drain the economy... Funny how you don't have to file a tax report or prove residency to get benefits, this system was made for them....

reply to post by muse7

I did.

Life is what is not fair. At least under capitalism, everyone has a chance for success. But what we live under right now is not capitalism! It is a mixture of capitalism, socialism, and corporatism.

I am not saying capitalism is perfect, but if mixed with just the right amount of socialism (not too much, not too little!), I know of no better economic system. I just hate it when people start saying that this economic mess we live in now is capitalism's fault... because it is not. We have taken the worst of capitalism, the worst of socialism, and used it to try and create corporatism.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jjf3rd77

 

so many old and unenforced..

You're the one that thinks going 1 MPH over the speed limit is a crime. But sure cops do give out tickets for that all the time. For most cops its 5 MPH unless they are really hurting for speeding tickets....

and he is just enacting the policy that Marco Rubio has been advocating...I would think you would be happy he is enacting a plan Republicans support.

I don't support either plan.

Then move there...I prefer a compassionate system....I'll stay here.

You're beginning to sound like a Paulbot.

Where is that law?

It's not a law. It's basic capitalism and Economics.They steal money from America since they are here illegal and most likely under fake IDS then illegally wire that money to their real families than that is called stealing or money laundering take your pick!

reply to post by MRuss

Shame on you.

Sorry, but I couldn't read past the second paragraph. Barf.

Americans are the hardest working people in the world, as proven by so many statistics (and our Puritan heritage, and our success), that I simply can't believe you would say such a thing without any sort of statistical evidence.

Prove it!

There are plenty of webistes that document work hours per country.

This is just utterly ridiculous.

Prove it.

Prove it.

Prove it.

Anecdotal B.S. like this is just further evidence on why some people shouldn't be allowed on the Internet.

I travel all over the world, and there are very few Americans traveling. WE HAVE NO TIME OFF. The word on the streets in other countries of why there are no traveling Americans is this:

"Americans are home working."

Back up your THEORIES with a little evidence.

Sigh.

It must be summer at ATS.

Nope! Has nothing to do with summer. Just getting our dictator re elected!

Originally posted by stanguilles7 Unless, of course, the ultimate goal is about erasing the borders we have created between the relative prosperity of even the middle class with that of the often abject poverty of the nations much of our collective wealth has actually been accumulated by exploitation, if even just indirectly.

Hey - don't discount that. It's all part and parcel of a globalist agenda. Subvert wages and exploit resources. What's so funny is that the average conservative middle American will still swear allegiance to Target and Wal Mart, not realizing they are just two clicks away from the NAU and the NWO.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I, as an american, welcome all to our shores who wish to work hard, assimilate into our society, and become United States citizens in good standing. Immigration has helped to bring our country to a state of wealth and prosperity unseen in most of the civilized world. My own family immigrated here from Germany and Ireland in the late 1800s. My grandfather served in World War Two, and Korea. My father served in Vietnam. My sister is a desert storm veteran, and I have served in several countries during the 1990s as a peacekeeper. We are proud to be americans and are proud of our heritage. My forefathers and mothers came to elis island, learned english, assimilated into american society, and took their oath of citizenship.
The ones you speak of are not immigrants. They have come here more like refugees. They violated our soveriegn borders, with full knowledge of the act. They do not assimilate into our social fabric, instead maintaining their own culture in Balkanized communities, not bothering to learn our language, showing no alliegence to our nation. They further break our laws by unlawfully gaining forged identity documents, and withholding the immigration status of their children while they consume public services payed for by the majority of lawful residents. These people are not immigrants as my ancestors were, they are aliens! My ancestors came to the party and signed the guest book on the way in the front door. These guys crashed the party breaking into the basement window.
I would ask you to take care in the words you use sir. Do not confuse an immigrant with an alien.
As for the hatred some have, perhaps it is manifested by our own governments lack of action in enforcing the laws of this country, to benefit a few business interests, and to gain a suspect voting block. Do you deny the drain on public resources? The depreciation of wages?? The division in communities who see a whole slew of foreign aliens set up their own enclaves within our borders??? I know plenty of immigrants at my college who came here from latin america, went through the steps, became citizens, and gained their PHD. They are disgusted by those who come here illegally and demand, DEMAND their right to be here! In my first year, a young lady admitted in class her mother was an illegal living in the sancutary city of chigago, that she herself was born in Mexico. She herself, though here since a child, was an illegal immigrant. Upon learning of this, she immediately reported the student and her mother to INS. When I asked her why (my Professor), she responded " We are a nation of laws, not of men. She and her mother have been violating the law her entire time here. She could not attend university here without proof of citizenship, thus, she has commited fraud. It is irresponsible to ignore a crime commited in your mist."
I can not help but agree with her.
I fear sir, that with the exception of your observations regarding the illegals work ethic, I cannot agree with you.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I wonder what the Indians think about the illegal Immigrants that are over here to !

I see you didn't take my challenge. In fact, you ignored my entire post because just like any good liberal, you can't back up your "theories" with proof.

So, I am encouraging all of you bright ATS'ers to provide the proof that Americans are the hardest working people in the world.

There is plenty of evidence-----statistical, economic and otherwise.

Time for us to shut this guy up and end this thread.

It makes no sense.

It is anecdotol.

He probably doesn't even know what that means.

It's like some 4th grader from Guatemela.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


What a load of nonsense. You must think it is OK that illegals bring down wages and take jobs away from legal citizens. It's not. Another thing, I don't care that they risk their life to get here ILLEGALLY. I don't care about their families. If these illegal immigrants truly cared about their families they would stay with them and try to change the country that they are from. They don't do that. In essence, they are cowards.

You are right. There is a difference between two types of people. One group is legal....the other group is not.

Another thing...what does this have to do with US Political Madness? All I see is a rant targeted towards legal residents that you consider lazy with nothing of substance behind it. The politics of this post is simply mind-blowing!!!

reply to post by TheRedneck

No more than you use the "everyone just wants to be nice" theory.

The truth lies in between. There are, yes, many good decent Mexican people who simply want a better life; I have never said otherwise. There are also, however, some people who do want to hurt others. And they are doing it as we speak. For you to deny that anyone is of that mentality shows a complete and utter lack of reality in your reasoning.

I never denied that there are bad people...in fact I admitted every sub-group of people will have their bad people in it.

Answer me this...do you think people come here out of a desire to work...or do you think they come here out of a desire to do horrible things??? It seems like if their goal was to commit crime...they could just stay in their home country and do so.

And why are you limiting your discussion to one country??? Seems a bit odd to me...no???

Now, if you can enter enough reality to admit that, yes, there are bad people in the world, then the question becomes how do we keep the bad people out and let the good people in? I have an idea! Let's find out who they are first! Yeah, I know that all goes against the puppies and happiness utopia you apparently live in, but in the real world, it's not a bad idea.

Are you going to have psychics at the border to find out if they are ever going to commit a crime???

Tell me...how do you know if someone is going to commit a crime in the future???

If not a fence, then armed patrols.

Armed patrols...wow...do you want them to shoot the women and children too???

Oh, so we're switching arguments now? Minimum wage never did apply to self-employment (which includes private corporate ventures). I thought we were talking about jobs.

Just so we both know what we are discussing, are you saying that we need to stop looking for jobs and start working for ourselves? Start our own corporations? All 300 million of us?

Just pointing out it isn't illegal to make less than minimum wage.

If you really think it is illegal to make less than minimum wage...go find me the law and the punishment you recieve for working for less than minimum wage.

I feel entitled to what is mine, yes. That is, I will concede, a technically correct definition of entitlement, but obviously not the definition being used by the majority in this thread. "Entitlement", by that definition, means being entitled to something by the very virtue of existence, not by hard work and perseverance.

If you wish to continue to use the definition you are apparently using in this thread so far, then your entire argument has become "Do Americans have the right to the fruits of their own labors?" I say yes, absolutely, unconditionally, YES!

If, however, you wish to use the negative connotation, then my arguments prevail and yours are nonsensical. It is the Americans who should be reaping the rewards of American ingenuity and determination, and the illegal immigrants who are taking those fruits of another's labors, simply because they wish it and feel entitled to it.

You have no claim to what Americans before you did...sorry...you are not entitled to their hard work. You aren't even really entitled to your parents hard work...if they wish to leave you something...that is their choice...but you aren't entitled to it.

You are not entitled to have a job just because you are an American...and if you can't compete with "illegals" to convince employers to hire you instead of them...well then tough.

Perhaps it is that the argument typically devolves into a discussion of race, so those who argue it assume it will do so again.

But you do bring up racism in one respect: your continual reference to Americans as "lazy". That is a prejudicial argument in itself.

You know what happens when you assume????

Calling lazy people lazy isn't racist...it applies to anyone of any race.

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

That's rich.

So, as a democrat you want to give people a free ride and now you're saying they aren't working hard enough? Gee, I wonder why. Didn't see that one coming eh?

edit on 18-6-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

Who said I want to give people a free ride???

I think someone is generalizing.

reply to post by TheTardis

Nope.. Try again. Read back a few pages. We already established that most of them work as a self employed contractor and do not get taxes and other with holdings taken out. And another large portion of them just get paid cash under the table.

No...no..."we" didn't establish anything.

You made a bunch of stuff up with no proof...but nothing was "established".

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Of course I'm afraid of of illegal immigrants taking jobs. They undercut the pay by not only being tax exempt but also being able to take less pay by living 20 to a 2k square foot house. As for immigrants working harder, that's a laugh. Illegal immigrants work harder at first.

Then work harder and do a better job so that employers won't mind paying more money because they know they will be getting much higher quality work.

What's wrong with that?

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I wonder what the Indians think about the illegal Immigrants that are over here to

!

Why don't you go ask them over a game of blackjack?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

That's rich.

So, as a democrat you want to give people a free ride and now you're saying they aren't working hard enough? Gee, I wonder why. Didn't see that one coming eh?

Who said I want to give people a free ride???

I think someone is generalizing.

OOOOoooo, I'm generalizing. So what? lol, how is that even "generalizing" anyways?

From what you've told me before you support your so called "social safety nets" (i.e. free money, remember that stupid little convo we had? no?). Money is usually what people WORK for in capitalism. When you give it to them for nothing, they tend to do nothing.

Now... stay with me here. As a democrat you support this and you have told me so yourself, now you come on here with another post crying about how Americans aren't working, while you support giving them money for NOT WORKING.

I think someone is dumb.

reply to post by Darkrunner

Take a look at the unemployment rate of teenagers in this country. High schoolers that want money for prom, the latest popular shoes or jeans.

Oh no...no money for prom or jeans...the tragedy...I totally see why "illegals" must be hated so much now.

Take your "race card" elsewhere. It doesn't work anymore, no matter how many times you try to throw it. You'll keep throwing it, though, and you'll keep failing to make it stick.

The only ones talking about "race" in this thread are the anti-immigration folks.

No one else has brought it up...I wonder why

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Not hardly! My main issue with illegal immigrants is that it isn't right that anyone be above or beyond the rules that we American's have to follow or suffer legal consequences ourselves. It's about inequality and an imbalance within the system. Now this is not to say that I don't think the immigration system doesn't need totally overhauled, I think it does. But why shouldn't they be held to the same standards as everyone else? They are no better or worse, they should not be beyond the law.

I have seen hard working immigrants, I have seen hard working Americans. I have also seen lazy overly entitled immigrants as well as lazy overly entitled Americans. Being an illegal immigrant hardly means that you are suddenly harder working or have better ethics somehow, that is a huge exaggeration and inaccurate at best.