The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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After reading the reply after reply in immigration threads from American citizens that are very against immigrants (some with vile hatred)...I think I know what the problem is.

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them. But they can't admit that...because of their American ego...so they just go with that these immigrants are criminals, stupid, and lazy....even though it just isn't true.

These immigrants come here to WORK their asses off to provide a better life for their children. Their children see all their parents have done for them and in turn they WORK their asses off to become successful in this country. They come with one goal...to WORK.

The Americans in this immigration threads that are complaining about these immigrants are just scared because they know they can't compete with them...because in fact they are the lazy ones...they want the job that gives them everything for doing nothing...they want to get paid a ton of money for little work...they aren't willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life...they want it NOW and they want it for THEMSELVES.

Immigrants aren't lazy, they risk their life in most cases just to get here. They'll take a job that gives them little for doing more work in a day than most people do in a week. They just want to get paid a little money to feed their family (regardless if they live here or in another country). They are willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life. They will do without now, so their children and family can have better later.

What we see here is the difference between two types of people, this subgroup of Americans that hate immigrants because they feel ENTITLED to be successful just because they are a citizen. And we have the immigrants who feel DETERMINED to be successful despite if they are a citizen or not.


That is what it all comes down to...it isn't about breaking the law...it isn't about speaking a different language (well...maybe for some)...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.



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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them.


Some are. Definately. I'd gladly trade some welfare sucking Americans to Mexico in order to get the family-type illegals here who work their butts off.

However, others are violent criminals and lots of others are into drug gangs

ALL of them .. no matter how hard working they are or aren't ... are sucking on the american economy. Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California spend BILLIONS of tax dollars on illegals through free medical care, free education, and law enforcement because of the Mexican gangs and drug running.

If you had said 'some' illegal immigrants are more driven, harder working, etc etc .. I would have agreed with you fully. But you made a blanket statement and the facts speak against it.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Immigrants has a similar affect on the Australians in the 1970s-1990s but Australians are quickly catching up generally working harder and longer hours on average of 48+ per week but still lazy not wanting to work weekends and are not racing for afew other jobs, however by saying that, most mining jobs are going to the Kiwis and other foreign workers because the Australians don't want to work in the mines then the Australians whinge about it claiming the Kiwis are taking their jobs....the jobs Australians don't want to do.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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This belongs in the rant section, because it is total hyperbole and opinion, with nothing to back it up but your own skewed viewpoint.

It has nothing to do with prejudice, and everything to do with the screwy way our federal government cherry-picks what laws to enforce. It has nothing to do with hatred, and everything to do with people here who are here illegally, taking jobs away from people who are here legally.

There are thousands of people here legally, who went through all the proper channels and waited their turn. Sure, everybody comes here for "a better life", but does that desire erase the fact that they are breaking our sovereign laws and flaunting it in our faces?

Do you not see that illegals are invisible under the law, so they will take any wage, thereby driving down the wages for EVERYBODY in this country? Do you not see that an illegal willing to work for $3 an hour will be picked over a citizen who has a right to be paid minimum wage? Isn't it obvious who is pushing this agenda and who fattens their bottom line by hiring illegal labor? It is not a question of laziness, as I have seen illegals lazier than an old dog on a hot day, and very hard working Americans. Your stereotyping sounds like more mainstream media claptrap.

Most Americans don't like the illegal angle, and the fact that these "undocumented visitors" do not come here to assimilate, they come here to milk what they can. It is a drain on the system and it is a gross abuse of our services. There is nothing to like or respect about that.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is. Your opinion....and as far as I'm concerned, not one based in reality.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Your reply is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Instead of focusing on the hard working immigrants...you bring up violent criminals and drug runners as if they are the norm.

There are violent criminals and drug dealers in every subgroup of society...but you and others try to associate that with immigrants to paint a negative picture of them...so that when anyone sees or thinks "immigrant"...they think "criminal" or "drug runner".

But you know that isn't the majority of immigrants...you know the majority are the field workers, the housekeepers, the gardners, the day laborer, the bus boy, the janitor....you know...any job that is hard work for little pay.


But thanks for illustrating my point...that some Americans want to paint a negative picture of immigrants, and I think it is because you and others fear that they are better workers than you and you can't compete with them in the job market.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Is this a thread about Illegal immigrants or Immigrants(w/ papers)?

I don't have any experience with Illegal immigrants, i guess its an American thing. In Canada, ALL of them i met are immigrants with landed papers.

I think for future post sakes, lets differentiate between ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

My parents were immigrants, but they didn't hop on a boat or jump the fence



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I agree that a lot of racism stems from fear. I think the immigration debate showcases this for the reasons you've highlighted above.

I also agree that on average, immigrants are harder working, better employees than the average American. The average American is fat, lazy, and stupid. Sorry, but that's the truth.

My step-dad is American born to legal Mexican Immigrants. My step-dad is a chemist, his brother a software engineer, his dad is a farmer who runs a crop project for a church. They all worked hard to get where they are and continue to work hard every day. The stereotype of Mexicans in the USA is complete crap, and it's true that immigrant workers are willing/able to do much more for far longer than most white Americans.

I see a lot of hidden racism on ATS. It's scary that we still have such small minds around us.

So I'm all for LEGAL immigration.. But ILLEGAL immigration is a tax on the economy and should be stopped, if at all possible. I firmly believe it's allowed to continue to generate revenue for for-profit, private prison systems.. We don't send illegal immigrants back to Mexico, we put them in prisons where they cost the US taxpayer more than they ever would have using healthcare and education.



edit on 18-6-2012 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Americans do not hate immigrants. Most of us are immigrants ourselves. This is what I hate.

1) immigrants are being used for political purposes.
2) legal immigration vs illegal.
If immigrants wish to come, then do it legally. I do not fear competition. They will not outwork me.
3) I also don't like that I have to pay for their medical care, when I struggle to pay for my own and I don't like having to pay for their food and rent.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by FissionSurplus
 



It has nothing to do with prejudice, and everything to do with the screwy way our federal government cherry-picks what laws to enforce. It has nothing to do with hatred, and everything to do with people here who are here illegally, taking jobs away from people who are here legally.


The legal status shouldn't matter if the legal worker is a better worker than the illegal worker.

The only way an "illegal" can take a job away from a "legal" worker is if they are a more determined worker.


Do you not see that illegals are invisible under the law, so they will take any wage, thereby driving down the wages for EVERYBODY in this country? Do you not see that an illegal willing to work for $3 an hour will be picked over a citizen who has a right to be paid minimum wage? Isn't it obvious who is pushing this agenda and who fattens their bottom line by hiring illegal labor? It is not a question of laziness, as I have seen illegals lazier than an old dog on a hot day, and very hard working Americans..


IF that was the case...you wouldn't see people so outraged by the President giving people work permits to work legally for at least minimum wage with all the worker protection entitled to citizens...people who committed no crime because their parents brought them here and they didn't have a say in it.

But the same people who say they only dislike "illegals" because they broke a law are also hating on these people who broke no law and are being given a chance. And when given that chance, those people are going to take it...they are driven and they will work hard.


Most Americans don't like the illegal angle, and the fact that these "undocumented visitors" do not come here to assimilate, they come here to milk what they can. It is a drain on the system and it is a gross abuse of our services. There is nothing to like or respect about that.


And once more...my point is illustrated.

Let's paint the "immigrants" as a drain on our system. Let's ignore the hard work they do for little pay...let's ignore that without them our crops would rot in the fields...let's ignore that the drive to come to America is to WORK.

Instead...let's demonize them...let's call them criminals...let's call them a drain on our society...let's call them invaders...let's call them lazy...let's call them anything we can to make them into the enemy.


You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is. Your opinion....and as far as I'm concerned, not one based in reality.


You just proved otherwise...by doing the exact thing I am claiming in the OP....congrats.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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Nice theory, but it doesn't hold water.

You say illegal immigrants will win "hands down" in the job market. They will, and here's why:
  • I cannot work for less than $7.25 an hour, even if I want to. Illegal immigrants can, because they are already breaking the law and "on the lam".
  • Illegal immigrants have no home, no roots, no ties to the community; I do. Their wages can include room and board (20 people to a house?) while I already have my house (and most have a house payment).
  • Illegal immigrants do not have to file taxes. Some do, I know, but not the ones who are unfairly working for below minimum wage... to do so is a guarantee they will be removed from their job and probably deported!
  • Illegal immigrant employers do not have to worry about discrimination lawsuits, labor laws, OSHA, or a host of other government regulations that I am subject to.

In other words, it's like a marathon runner complaining because he and he alone has to pull a freight train while he's running.

I have no doubt many illegal immigrants are well capable of performing in the jobs market, and I know for a fact not all are like the ones I mention above. I also know for a fact that many are. If the playing field were level, I wouldn't have a problem with them in that respect; but the playing field is not level.

As to the language... they can speak whatever language they want. But I speak English; Alabama is an English-speaking state. I see no reason why I, as a taxpayer, should be forced to adapt to the whims of someone who comes here not to live and contribute and make a life, but to send money back home and then run after it when the authorities close in. I was here first; my family and my ancestors developed this place for us to live in, and it is a serious show of disrespect for anyone to think that we should be forced to adapt to someone else because they decide at the last moment to walk in.

So here's the real reasons, despite what you might otherwise think, why I am against illegal immigration:
  • It is illegal, and allowing some to break a law while not allowing all to break the law is unfair and unjust.
  • An unlevel economic playing field.
  • The disrespect of changing a local language that has existed just fine for over 200 years.
  • The undocumented may well be undesirables... true terrorists, felons, insurgents, criminals.We don't know because there is no chance to find out.
  • A struggling economy already means precious resources and jobs we cannot spare at this time are being given to those who simply waded across a ditch, because they waded across a ditch.
  • The concern that the explosion in population may damage our infrastructure, because it was not designed to handle such an influx.
  • The lack of reciprocity from the country the illegals are coming from.

I also realize that this is a thread designed for one sole, specific reason: to stir the pot of emotions on the subject. I reply only because I believe I speak for the majority when I say you are exactly wrong. Hopefully others as well will clarify the errors in your thinking.

That dog just don't hunt.

TheRedneck



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Americans do not hate immigrants. Most of us are immigrants ourselves. This is what I hate.

1) immigrants are being used for political purposes.
2) legal immigration vs illegal.
If immigrants wish to come, then do it legally. I do not fear competition. They will not outwork me.
3) I also don't like that I have to pay for their medical care, when I struggle to pay for my own and I don't like having to pay for their food and rent.


I honestly don't care about legal vs illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants come here out of determination to work and better their families...not because they are criminals like people try to paint them as.

I don't like to pay for our government bombing other countries...but I really don't have a say. And I'm sure the numbers you hear about how much a "drain" illegals are on society are completely false...since most come from false chain emails like this: www.factcheck.org...


But people tend to claim they don't have a problem with "legal" immigrants...but why? I honestly think it is because they know how incredibly hard and expensive it is to become a "legal" immigrant...so they know the volume is going to be extremely low and the competition from them is going to be extremely low.

I have often said...if it is just the "illegal" factor that people don't like....then let's make it extremely easy to come here legally. Sign a paper at the border...get a work permanent work permit with a tax ID...problem solved.

But no...people who are agianst "illegals" are also against a program like that...because the competition would be too much and they know they can't compete with a determined hard worker.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Where did the notion that illegal immigrants are better than the Americans that are here legally come from?

The same situation, can be said in reverse you are just doing like all democrats do and playing stupid class warfare racist card. Most Americans I see are hard working college educated patriots who love this country and everything that it stands for! You just described the OWS idiots who feel they are entitled to a wall street economics job that pays in the 100,000 salary range because they majored in Women's studies at Harrrvard!

Illegal immigrants can be lazy do nothing stupid criminals too! Why can't we pull that card if you can pull it on us?

I hate this racist crap. These are part of both subgroups in illegals and in american citizens. The only problem with your theory is that ALL illegal immigrants are criminals because they are here breaking the law and not going through the LEGAL process!!!!! That makes them criminals!
edit on 18-6-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-6-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)


+13 more 
posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Just because you are capable of knee jerk hatred, doesn't mean everyone else is too.
It's not about hate, it's about everything Flyers Fan and Redneck mentioned.
Plus it's also about the diseases they bring in to this country, case in point, that newfangled AIDS virus.
There was a time when immigrants were turned away at Ellis Island for having a freaking cavity, now they are just allowed to simply walk in and turn this country into the country they are leaving behind.
Where is the logic in this?
What's wrong with this picture?


+19 more 
posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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In summary:

Anybody against immigration of any sort is a racist.

Usual liberal hyperbole horsechit.

It doesn't matter how you explain yourself, it doesn't matter what facts you bring to the table, that liberal will just consider you a racist and disregard anything you have to say on the matter.

So it's best just to disregard them.

They can't help themselves, I suppose. They can't win any way else.


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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Instead of focusing on the hard working immigrants...you bring up violent criminals and drug runners as if they are the norm.

You IGNORE the fact that many, many illegals who are here ARE violent criminals and drug runners.

You IGNORE the fact that, no matter what their motivation, they are sucking BILLIONS off our economy and making harder for those who are here legally.

You IGNORE the fact that basic Economics 101 will tell you that economics in society can absorb just so many people before it faulters under the weight of those new people.

As I said ... some really are harder working than some Americans and I'd gladly trade those welfare suckering Americans down to Mexico to bring up those people from Mexico who really want to work. But it doesn't work that way.


some Americans want to paint a negative picture of immigrants, and I think it is because you and others fear that they are better workers than you and you can't compete with them in the job market.

OMG that's funny. Wrong .. and funny.

Illegal Aliens Cost Taxpayers 113$ Billion a Year

Staggering Cost of Illegals in America - 2008 346$ Billion

Pandering to illegals insult those who came here legally.
My fatherinlaw. My neighbor. My own daughter. etc
Follow the law ... or don't come here.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


So you would be fine with a program I just described in my other reply...a fast and easy work permit program.

Show up at a boarder checkpoint...sign your name...get a LEGAL work permit, get a Tax ID, and enter the country???

Then no one is illegal...they can't work for below minimum wage or work in jobs that don't follow OSHA...it will come down to simply who is the best and hardest worker.


I'm also curious to your opinion about Obama's newest policy...granting work permits to educated, contributing members of our society who have broken no law???


But to address your specific points.


I cannot work for less than $7.25 an hour, even if I want to. Illegal immigrants can, because they are already breaking the law and "on the lam".


You could if you really wanted to...it isn't illegal to work for less than minimum wage...it's just illegal to pay less than minimum wage.


Illegal immigrants have no home, no roots, no ties to the community; I do. Their wages can include room and board (20 people to a house?) while I already have my house (and most have a house payment).


Again...this is your choice vs the choice of someone who is determined to sacrifice to work for the benefit of others in their family. What I hear you saying is that they are more determined to work than you are because you aren't willing to give up your cushy life to compete with them.



Illegal immigrants do not have to file taxes. Some do, I know, but not the ones who are unfairly working for below minimum wage... to do so is a guarantee they will be removed from their job and probably deported!


The wages they get paied are most likely taxed...there are many ways companies get around this...but companies have to show the money went somewhere. There are a few common methods...show the pay under the owners name...it is taxed, then he takes what's left over and distributes it to the "illegals"....pay one "legal" immigrant double on the books, give him a small kickback for the extra tax burden, and distribute the rest to the "illegals".

It is a myth that "illegals" pay no taxes....no company can just take money out of their account and pay people without showing where that money went.



Illegal immigrant employers do not have to worry about discrimination lawsuits, labor laws, OSHA, or a host of other government regulations that I am subject to.


Making work permits easy to get solve this problem 100%. I just don't think you would support it.


It is illegal, and allowing some to break a law while not allowing all to break the law is unfair and unjust.


But people are resistant to change the laws to make it easier to enter legally...so it isn't JUST because they are "illegal"...it is because they are here period.


An unlevel economic playing field.


The only way to fix that is to make it extremely easy to enter and work legally.


The disrespect of changing a local language that has existed just fine for over 200 years.


Oh give me a break...thousands of years of Native culture wiped out and we are supposed to revear 200 years of an invading culture???

Think of it this way...the culture is just looking for equilibrium



The undocumented may well be undesirables... true terrorists, felons, insurgents, criminals.We don't know because there is no chance to find out.


And that can all be solved if the process to become legal and on the books was made very easy for all to enter who want to work.


A struggling economy already means precious resources and jobs we cannot spare at this time are being given to those who simply waded across a ditch, because they waded across a ditch.


A struggling economy will reward the most determined and hardest workers.

We should be a country where we want the best...not a country where we want those who aren't the best but feel they are entitled because of their geographical birth location.


The concern that the explosion in population may damage our infrastructure, because it was not designed to handle such an influx.


We've handled population surges before...we are capable of handling it again.

You make it seem like America is such a pathetic country that can't improve their infastructure...that's a shame.


The lack of reciprocity from the country the illegals are coming from.


Who cares??? As long as we are getting some hard workers that outperform our lazy populace....we win.



After reading all of that...it still seems that the core reason for you is that you know they will out perform many Americans and you just don't like the idea of that.


+16 more 
posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The legal status shouldn't matter if the legal worker is a better worker than the illegal worker.

You ignore basic economics and the very high cost to us of those illegal aliens.


Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Illegal immigrants come here out of determination to work and better their families....

You keep making that blanket statement ... and it's not true.
SOME illegal immigrants come here to work and better their families.
Others come here to suck what they can out of America and send it back to Mexico.
Others come here for nefarious reasons .. drug cartels and the such.

Like I said .. it doesn't matter why they are coming here.
They are all ILLEGAL and they make life harder for Americans who are here legally.
They cost us money. A lot of it. It's just that simple.
That some of them may have good motivations ... that's irrelevant.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Americans do not hate immigrants. Most of us are immigrants ourselves. This is what I hate.

1) immigrants are being used for political purposes.
2) legal immigration vs illegal.
If immigrants wish to come, then do it legally. I do not fear competition. They will not outwork me.
3) I also don't like that I have to pay for their medical care, when I struggle to pay for my own and I don't like having to pay for their food and rent.


I honestly don't care about legal vs illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants come here out of determination to work and better their families...not because they are criminals like people try to paint them as.

I don't like to pay for our government bombing other countries...but I really don't have a say. And I'm sure the numbers you hear about how much a "drain" illegals are on society are completely false...since most come from false chain emails like this: www.factcheck.org...


But people tend to claim they don't have a problem with "legal" immigrants...but why? I honestly think it is because they know how incredibly hard and expensive it is to become a "legal" immigrant...so they know the volume is going to be extremely low and the competition from them is going to be extremely low.

I have often said...if it is just the "illegal" factor that people don't like....then let's make it extremely easy to come here legally. Sign a paper at the border...get a work permanent work permit with a tax ID...problem solved.

But no...people who are agianst "illegals" are also against a program like that...because the competition would be too much and they know they can't compete with a determined hard worker.


Since you "don't care about legal vs illegal immigration" you must not care bout sovereignty or any of the other pesky aspects of being a nation like laws, economic viability, security, etc. Your "argument" is more fitted to the Rant forum.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



The only problem with your theory is that ALL illegal immigrants are criminals because they are here breaking the law and not going through the LEGAL process!!!!! That makes them criminals!


That isn't a problem with my theory...that is the point of my theory.

You and others have this need to paint them as vile criminals.


It's a fact that "illegals" have completely taken over certain types of work...they have done so because they are "better" workers. They work harder, they work longer, and they will do it for less money. I don't like that they get paid crap for hard work...not because I think it drives down wages...but because I think they are being taken advantage of.

But guess what...they are extremely grateful for that wage...even though no American citizen would do the same type of work for that wage...they are happy for it.


I'm not sure where you got "racism" out of my OP...I never said it was about racism...it is about determination vs laziness....it is about hard work vs entitlement.

Americans are being out worked by "illegals"....and that is why you and other are trying to demonize them....because the fact that they out work you scares you.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Just because you are capable of knee jerk hatred, doesn't mean everyone else is too.
It's not about hate, it's about everything Flyers Fan and Redneck mentioned.
Plus it's also about the diseases they bring in to this country, case in point, that newfangled AIDS virus.
There was a time when immigrants were turned away at Ellis Island for having a freaking cavity, now they are just allowed to simply walk in and turn this country into the country they are leaving behind.
Where is the logic in this?
What's wrong with this picture?


Knee jerk hatred...who am I showing hatred towards???


And again...your reply just further illustrates my point....let's demonize them.

Now, not only are they violent criminals, drug dealers, disrespectful culture destroyers....but now they are plague bearers.

It's simply astounding that every person seems to just keep adding on the demonization of these hard workers...and in the same reply claim they don't hate these people....they are just violent criminal disease ridden drug dealers that destroy cultures....but you don't hate them





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