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Socialists Win French Parliament Race As World Turns Socialist.

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Germanicus

and I say american style capitalism because some parrot like you will try to pretend he is clever by saying that we do not have capitalism. We have capitalism. Deal with it.


Called it.

There is no country in the world that practices capitalism. You ARE being obtuse. What you call capitalism is not capitalism at all. It's your own pet definition. Example:
:

Originally posted by lolmanicus
"Hey guys! Lets play baseball, but lets play it with soccer balls and hockey sticks!"


Well sorry, but once the fundamentals that make baseball baseball have been eliminated and substituted it is no longer baseball! It becomes something else all together.

Capitalism is not a handful of government officials on a central planning board.
Capitalism does not involve a private central bank setting interest rates.
Capitalism does not involve a private central bank adjusting the money supply.
Capitalism does not involve a system of fiat currency that requires legal tender laws to make people use it.
Capitalism does not involve protection for lenders, such as commercial bank bailouts.
Capitalism does not involve government subsidies to certain industries.
Capitalism does not involve tax payer backed mortgage firms.
Capitalism does not involve price and wage controls and government controls over production and distribution.


Fundamentally, there are only two ways of coordinating the economic activities of millions. One is central direction involving the use of coercion – the technique of the army and of the modern totalitarian state. The other is voluntary cooperation of individuals – the technique of the marketplace. – Milton Friedman




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Call it what you will. It does not make it any more appealing nor does it make the world safer.

What happens when two Mercantilism-State Capitalism States are in conflict over desperately needed resources? People are upset over Corporate interests in US Government now, Just wait until they are one and the same in your Utopia.

There the little guy is just another low paid resource to be exploited but this time not just by Corporate Elites but by Big Brother as well with both working in concert to maintain their bottom line


Profit

Enjoy

edit on 18-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:19 AM
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What does France's financial spending look like ?

Do they binge spend like the U.S. has been ?

If they are going to spend more, what will their economy look like in the near future ?



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


Not impressed, sounds more like liberalism to me.

Are they actually planning on turning the means of production over to the workers?

Nope, just more government control of the market and a bigger social safety net.

Don't let politicians fool you, they are not socialists, they are liberals masquerading as socialists so that we don't ask for more please sir.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, not capitalism with large government and a social safety net, that is liberalism. Liberalism is not socialism.


To the revolutionary Socialist I do not appeal as the Liberal candidate for Dundee. I recognise that they are perfectly right in voting against me and voting against the Liberals, because Liberalism is not Socialism, and never will be. [Cheers.]There is a great gulf fixed. It is not only a gulf of method, it is a gulf of principle. There are many steps we have to take which our Socialist opponents or friends, whichever they like to call themselves, will have to take with us; but there are immense differences of principle and of political philosophy between the views we put forward and the views they put forward... Winston Churchill, Liberal Party candidate for Dundee. 1908, Kinnaird Hall, Dundee.


Liberalism And Socialism


edit on 6/18/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, not capitalism with large government and a social safety net, that is liberalism. Liberalism is not socialism.



I prefer State Capitalism. State Capitalism is what China have been using. I also like National Socialism. Both are hybrids. They mix socialism with capitalism.



We have capitalism. Deal with it.



The USA has always been a capitalist nation


When words lose their meaning, people lose their liberty. – Confucius

The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect. – 1984



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


you really are pathetic, Is this all you do is make attack threads with no real propose other then to bash the US.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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I think it's funny how the OP thinks anyone who disagrees with ANY aspect of his hyperbole-laden hubris is some sort of 'american capitalist' apologist and apparently thinks ALL Americans are Dick Cheney.

This is likely good for France. The Countries in Europe, like Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, etc, that have a healthy social net are he ones doing well. The countries who have taken massive loans from international banks in the name of 'free markets', like Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland, are in the crapper.

But I am a little skeptical of how far this government will actually be willing to go. Sarkoxy positioned france as a German lapdog, and I have a hard time believing their country will turn around that fast.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by JackBauer


The whole world is rejecting american style capitalism.


The world is a big place, and no they're not rejecting "american style capitalism". France can welcome the past, the failed past, while we will proudly keep our free system that lets people do as they please to make a living. If you excessively tax and punish the employers out of business, guess what? You no longer get a paycheck. France will be sorry for this. I don't care, america doesn't care, and it will fail. Their hatred towards those who have more than them has blindly thrown them into a tailspin.
edit on 6/17/2012 by JackBauer because: (no reason given)

You could not be more wrong. Have a good look at the "happiest" countries in the world, guess what they have high taxes and low unemployment. It's the low tax countries that have inequality and unhappiness.......well except for the rich and the idiots who believe their "don't tax us cos we make money for everybody" nonsense. Time and time again this theory of trickle down wealth is an UTTER MYTH.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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Germanicus, the best intellectual troll ATS has ever had.

I have your profile on my favourite tabs just to see what you're up to. Keep it up mate, the Yanks don't like it up 'em



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


"The world turns socialist"? Okay - explain the Greek vote. Once again, the Lefties
are running through hill and valley, chasing that unicorn that craps gold.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by taskforce4256
reply to post by Germanicus
 


"The world turns socialist"? Okay - explain the Greek vote. Once again, the Lefties
are running through hill and valley, chasing that unicorn that craps gold.


Dont equate Germanicus with 'Lefties" or with the info he promotes. He's just an anti-American, and knows very, very little about the topics he promotes.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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I think Venezuela is a prime example of what happens when a socialist government takes control. Since Chavez was elected he has run their economy into the ground, promised massive solical programs with no way to fund them in addition to massive electricty issues with brownouts. I can keep going but you get the idea...

As far as praising France and stating its the end of Capitalism, I think the OP should learn before making claims he cant support. If he did he would know French President Francois Hollande (socialist party) is not the first socialist president of france. In fact former President François Mitterrand was a member of the socialist party (newer one) and was the first socialist President of France. When Mitterand won, the socialist party he belonged to also won a majority of seats in their government, giving them a ruling majoirty, just as we have now.

Wiki - Political parties of France
Socialist Party of France

The socialist party of France is the second largest block, right next to Sarkozy's party.

Their platform -
Pro-Europeanism

Pro-European is a subjective term applied to a person who supports the idea of European unification (mainly through the European Union (EU)) and generally supports further 'deepening' of European integration, specifically in the context of political argument over the current and future status of the EU and its policies.


Social Democracy

Social democracy is a political ideology that considers itself to be a form of reformist democratic socialism.[1] Social democracy argues that all citizens should be legally entitled to certain social rights. These are made up of universal access to public services such as: education, health care, workers' compensation, and other services including child care and care for the elderly.[2] Social democracy is connected with the trade union labour movement and supports collective bargaining rights for workers.[3] Contemporary social democracy advocates freedom from discrimination based on differences of: ability/disability, age, social class, ethnicity, gender, language, race, religion, and sexual orientation.[4] Most social democratic parties are affiliated with the Socialist International.[5]


The socialist Party of France has had majority control of the government since 2011.

Care to back up your claims that Capitalism is done in France? When they were in power before it remained and since the socialists have been in control sicne 2011, its still capitalist.

So please - support your claims.






edit on 18-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
Care to back up your claims that Capitalism is done in France? When they were in power before it remained and since the socialists have been in control sicne 2011, its still capitalist.

So please - support your claims.


As I said in my last post, that is liberalism not socialism.

The people are being sold a lie. Just like Russia calling itself communist. It's the same old game of appeasing the people and making them think they have our best interests at heart.

Liberalism is capitalism with a social safety net. Socialism is the worker ownership of the means of production.

Liberalism and capitalism suck from your pay-check. Socialism would give you the full worth of your labour.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 





Actually the MSM has no problem showing anything about a country just because it's socialist. It's just that Americans aren't that interested about what is going on over seas.


why do you think that is. To me it sounds like ignorance but maybe there are other reasons. In the UK we keep a tab on international news...



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Wait a second...isn't this the government that has their entire financial/societal rebuild plan hinged on Germany forking over another $120 billion Euro's?

Hmmm, must be nice to win an election by promising to spend someone else's money...



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the claims the op made that I was responding to. I want the op to support his claims France is abandoning capitalism / American model because of the new government. He made the claims wihtout proper regard to history solely to try and push his agenda in hopes no one would call him out on it.

I am and would like him to respond.


Socialism would give you the full worth of your labour.

Not even close...

Compare benefiets available in France to those who are unemployed. Tell me who pays for those programs? Please explain how a person who is not working is receiving their "worth" in labor.

Then please read Animal Farm.
edit on 18-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

They do make jobs, just not here.


to China


They can have those jobs and all the fringe benefits






edit on 17-6-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)


A picture of what happens when you allow profits to overshadow care of your people. When you allow the corporations to dictate policy.
So Mr. Fatcat moves his production to China. He gets labor at cents on the dollar, doesn't have to worry about the EPA, doesn't have to worry about overhead, and just makes profit. The environment suffers (unless you subscribe to 'his science'), the people of China suffer, the people of the US who were made redundant suffer, the local US economies suffer, the US economy suffers, but his wealth increases at the expense of everything and everyone else. That's why we give him a big, fat tax break. So he can accumulate wealth at the expense of the poor.

Why is the US the only country in the 'free' world where the people are afraid of the government and not the other way around?
Because Mr. Fatcat made it happen. It serves his purpose. It doesn't serve the people.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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Cant wait to watch them grenade their economy even faster now.

They'll get what they deserve.
edit on 18-6-2012 by 11235813213455 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by 11235813213455
Cant wait to watch them grenade their economy even faster now.

They'll get what they deserve.
edit on 18-6-2012 by 11235813213455 because: (no reason given)


It may be starting....

French Socialists eye tax rises after big poll win


Hollande will use a special session of parliament next month to whittle down France's numerous tax exemptions and pass tax rises for large corporations, especially banks and energy firms, in a bid to cut the deficit to within the European Union's 3 percent limit by next year despite a stagnant economy.

Economists expect the Socialist leader - who has also pledged a 75 percent tax rate on those earning over 1 million euros - to use an audit of the state's finances due early next month to water down his campaign pledges to increase spending on welfare and education and justify tax rises.


So, again, can someone tell me how welfare recipiants, who are not working, are getting their share of labor worth?
edit on 19-6-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ANOK
 


Which has absolutely nothing to do with the claims the op made that I was responding to. I want the op to support his claims France is abandoning capitalism / American model because of the new government. He made the claims wihtout proper regard to history solely to try and push his agenda in hopes no one would call him out on it.

I am and would like him to respond.


Fair enough. France isn't abandoning capitalism, the OP is wrong.



Not even close...

Compare benefiets available in France to those who are unemployed. Tell me who pays for those programs? Please explain how a person who is not working is receiving their "worth" in labor.

Then please read Animal Farm.


Animal Farm lol. You do know that George Orwell was a socialist right? Animal Farm was about the Stalin period before WWII. Europe's socialists did not see Stalin as a comrade like people nowadays like to think. The book was about the corruption of the Stalin revolution, and the problem with a centralised state system. See socialism is not what you want to think it is.

George Orwell (Eric Blair) helped in the Spanish revolution and wrote about it, the "Homage to Catalonia". He joined the Militia, the revolutionary army.


The government found itself in a peculiar situation when the dust had settled after July I 9th. While it remained the government it had no way of exercising its authority. Most of the army had openly rebelled against it. Where the rebellion had been defeated the army was disbanded and the workers now had the arms. The trade unions and left-wing organisations immediately set about organising these armed workers. Militias were formed and these became the units of the revolutionary army. Ten days after the coup there were I 8,000 workers organised in the militias of Catalonia. The vast majority of these were members of the CNT. Overall there were 150,000 volunteers willing to fight whenever they were needed.


The Spanish Civil War: Anarchism in Action

CNT Confederación Nacional del Trabajo


...I had come to Spain with some notion of writing newspaper articles, but I had joined the militia almost immediately, because at that time and in that atmosphere it seemed the only conceivable thing to do. The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle...


Homage to Catalonia

"One has got to be actively a Socialist, not merely sympathetic to Socialism, or one plays into the hands of our always-active enemies." George Orwell

What has benefits in France have to do with socialism? France is not socialist, not matter what the ruling party calls itself. I already explained that government benefits is a liberal ideology not socialist. Liberals might think they're socialists, but they're not.

How about we discuss what socialism actually is, the workers ownership of the means of production, and leave the main stream polotiks to the idiots who know no better? I would like to discuss real socialism vs real capitalism, worker ownership vs private ownership. But we can't do that anymore because so much BS baggage is attached to those terms that have really nothing to do with them.

Trust me what is happening in France is not what I want, that is not socialism as envisioned by the working class in the 1800's. That is not what the class struggle has been about. Nope, we have been hoodwinked into believing that all we need is a social safety net and all will be fine. But it ain't fine, it's a band-aid, that we pay for. You pay for that social safety net, as well as pay the private owners income, from your labour. Liberalism does not solve the problem of labour exploitation, or the monopolizing of the means to produce wealth, which gives a minority class the economic power to control the majority. It just creates more problems.

"Liberalism is not socialism and never will be". Winston Churchill

If people think liberalism is socialism then we're doomed, we will never economically, or socially, evolve as a society.


edit on 6/19/2012 by ANOK because: (no reason given)




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