Why I Doubt the Official "Story"

reply to post by 911files


It is very clear that 9/11 never should have happened considering all that was known about the threat. Do you Agree with some people here that it was government incompetence only that allowed the attack to succeed ?

reply to post by 911files


You may regret posting that information here where the level of understanding is not adequate to put this into perspective regarding 9/11.

As you know, the problem on 9/11 was not with NORAD or even specifically NEADS timely response, it was simply that they didn't have a chance due to lack of notification time.

Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by 911files

 

You may regret posting that information here where the level of understanding is not adequate to put this into perspective regarding 9/11.

As you know, the problem on 9/11 was not with NORAD or even specifically NEADS timely response, it was simply that they didn't have a chance due to lack of notification time.

You mean like the OS lying about what time Cheney got into his office, or his wasting at least 20 minutes standing down? Or Bush sitting on his ass for 20 minutes reading children's books while the nation is under attack, and this is, according to his own words, after seeing the first plane hit on some esoteric monitor before he even entered the classroom, and later joking about it saying "that must have been one heck of a bad pilot"?

...And all of this being enabled by Rumsfeld changing the directive so that no general in the field could order a shoot down?

I know that you know these things, but still argue for these criminals anyway. Let's see where these brownie points with the Devil leads you.

Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by 911files

 

You may regret posting that information here where the level of understanding is not adequate to put this into perspective regarding 9/11.

As you know, the problem on 9/11 was not with NORAD or even specifically NEADS timely response, it was simply that they didn't have a chance due to lack of notification time.

Why was that? Could it be that the protocol for intercepting craft that cannot provide identification, was changed in June of 2001 and then subsequently reverted back to what it was prior, just one day after this event? And what happened to the ground to air missiles that stand guard in underground bunkers at the Pentagon? They're supposed to be on automatic response to target unidentified aircraft. They are however programmed to not target military craft that have the proper code identifications. That would be the only way to circumvent the system. Maybe someone tripped on the plug?

i was trying to find the project from the pentagon i think i did...was a year before 911...it was the mascal project..
I know it does not confirmed the idea that planned scenarios were being carried out on the day or the days leading up to 911....but it shows for knowledge of which the president and members of the FBI say it was not even a considered option before 911...It was stated in the 911 commission as far as i can gather.




so the option it seems was considered.

WIkipedia-mascal

and here is a list of the many exercises going on in and around the day of 911....hope this helps...i think the exercise global guardian is particularly interesting

History commons

Originally posted by maxella1
reply to post by 911files

 

It is very clear that 9/11 never should have happened considering all that was known about the threat. Do you Agree with some people here that it was government incompetence only that allowed the attack to succeed ?

John is addressing only one aspect of the 9/11 attacks.....NORAD. It was much more complicated than that aspect.

I and others term it as a systemic problem of bureaucracy... Many things should have changed during the previous Administration when all of this stuff was happening. Most of it occurred on the previous Administration's watch, not GW Bush's.

For example, the "Common Strategy" for hijacks should have changed...it didn't.

Airport Security should have changed. It had been a joke for years. It didn't...... (it should be quite obvious to rational people that there would have been tremendous public resistance to change as even the events of 9/11 have not prompted folks to accept the increased Security Measures now in effect.) (Pre-9/11, there would have been even greater public outcry than has occurred afterward.)

The Wall between the Intelligence Agencies should have been removed allowing more interagency sharing of information....it wasn't.

There are even more changes that should have occurred, but didn't. However, this is enough that one should get the big picture in perspective...


You want to hang someone for responsibility? Start in the 1990's and move forward to 9/11 then.... There would not be many left in positions of responsibility... What would be left? More incompetence by people even less qualified than the ones they replaced. Yea, smart move that would be...

You, as well as other "truthers" should get a grip and realize there was no simple overnight solution to preventing the 9/11 attacks. There should have been many changes over the 90's that simply did not occur.

The terrorists had analyzed the system looking at vulnerabilities and found them. They then formulated a masterful plot to exploit them with a surprise attack. Throughout history most surprise attacks have succeeded in the short term... The events of 9/11 were no different...

reply to post by Reheat


just a question...why do you put it like people who do not agree with the OS are any less Intelligent....why not skip the snide comments and stick to information.

some people do comprehend more so than others no matter what side of the fence people might lay on...just could you stop with generalizations as it shows your level of intellect to be far less than you yourself can perceive it to be.

Now 911 files ask some questions...which i don't need to respond to but i would rather try to find consensus than to just go in circular arguments.....Thank you 911files....for actually commenting....and to you reheat for just making comments that add absolutely nothing to the thread.

reply to post by Bilk22


You dare to criticize others for posting false information and you post tripe such as this. Underground defenses at the Pentagon only exist in your imagination... There are no defenses of this nature at the Pentagon and never have been, period.

reply to post by plube


I base my opinion on what I see posted. Perhaps if you and others like you changed your posting style to deal with reality, my opinion might change. There is little hope, tho'... The same crap has been going on for almost 11 years now.. Maybe it's kinda like those changes that should have been implemented prior to 9/11, you reckon?

reply to post by Reheat


when you say terrorists paralyzed the system....which terrorists are these?

Was there a purpose in opposing these changes your saying should possibly have occurred pre 911....also when you say about the wall between agencies are you talking about one Jamie Gorelick one of the 911 commissions members.

The disclosure that Jamie Jamie Gorelick, a member of the September 11 commission, was personally responsible for instituting a key obstacle to cooperation between law enforcement and intelligence operations before the terrorist attacks raises disturbing questions about the integrity of the commission itself. Ms. Gorelick should not be cross-examining witnesses; instead, she should be required to testify about her own behavior under oath. Specifically, commission members need to ask her about a 1995 directive she wrote that made it more difficult for the FBI to locate two of the September 11 hijackers who had already entered the country by the summer of 2001.

WASHINGTON POST

So again could these instances of failure actually have been on purpose as another commission member stated...the 911 affair was a 30yr conspiracy....I believe it was Lee Hamilton that said that.

Originally posted by plube

See what I mean? Apparently, you are unable to determine the difference between a "Disaster Response" exercise in the Pentagon Courtyard for an accidental crash of an aircraft taking-off from or landing at Reagan National as opposed to a deliberate terrorist attack on the building. Why am I not surprised?

reply to post by plube
Thanks, Plube. And to all the posters on this thread who have called out these criminals who continue to push the 'agenda'. The gloves are off, and the mods have given them enough rope to hang themselves. Those who continue to post in favor of the OS, should be considered accessories to the crime and guilty of obstruction of justice.

Originally posted by Bilk22

Why was that? Could it be that the protocol for intercepting craft that cannot provide identification, was changed in June of 2001 and then subsequently reverted back to what it was prior, just one day after this event? And what happened to the ground to air missiles that stand guard in underground bunkers at the Pentagon? They're supposed to be on automatic response to target unidentified aircraft. They are however programmed to not target military craft that have the proper code identifications. That would be the only way to circumvent the system. Maybe someone tripped on the plug?

As I said.

Originally posted by waypastvne

You seem to think the 911 conspiracy section of ATS is a battle between good and evil. It's not. It is a stupidity contest. We are the judges and you're a contestant. Truthers come in here and say "I'm stupid and I can prove it" and we say "OK Kid show us what you got"

You got some extra points with that post.

reply to post by Reheat


I don't think i have been confrontational...so i don't think my posting style needs to change...asking questions is valid.....the answers may not always be correct...And some are completely outrageous from both camps you might agree...because i myself find my eyes rolling at some of the things put forward by truthers and OSer's alike but i am not going to generalize upon their intellect as all points can be deemed as valid if it makes one go out and seek the answers in a open and non derogatory way.

Originally posted by plube
reply to post by Reheat

 

Was there a purpose in opposing these changes your saying should possibly have occurred pre 911....also when you say about the wall between agencies are you talking about one Jamie Gorelick one of the 911 commissions members.

Sure. I guess you either missed or hand waved away my comment on the nature of bureaucratic resistance to change...

Originally posted by plube
So again could these instances of failure actually have been on purpose as another commission member stated...the 911 affair was a 30yr conspiracy....I believe it was Lee Hamilton that said that.

It appears you have a lot of work to do... I doubt that your rants on ATS or another Forum on the Internet are going to solve the problem. You need to get busy....

reply to post by Reheat


yes i do know it is a disaster response...the term was there any preconceptions of a possible aircraft strike on the pentagon....I even put in the Acronym of MASCAL so it would be understood...so rather than go into a conversational mode...you choose the derogatory approach...i was not implying...and i posted links to the source so it could be followed and understood.
but it is a convenient example and it was obviously thought of...and if it was a long term plan(911) then how do you or i know what the true intention of the MASCAL senario was...you don't....just as i Don't.

reply to post by Reheat


i see there is not any possible way of talking to you in any reasonable manner....will not comment on your remarks any more....a conversation of side would have been a good approach....but it will not happen with you...have a good non debate.

Also can you please point me to this other forum....i would be interested....As i believe i have only ever posted one thing on Jref.....and never again...but that was some time ago....I was about the paint chips document if you would like to go look...feel free.....

I have nothing to hide..and i always use this name so should be easy for you.....

I only look for true answers....I do make mistakes and when shown something is wrong can admit to it....As for rants....sometimes i can...but usually in other thread as 911 is not my life but it is of great interest....It is not the only thread i speak in...which sometimes i find strange when 911 is the only subject of choice by some people...it does throw up red flags.

NOTE: so after saying this i just went and looked at your posts....nothing but 911...interesting that.

reply to post by UltimateSkeptic1



Just in case you may have found some reason to change your mind.

www.gwu.edu...

It would appear some one has just blown a big hole in the main "excuse" those in charge were caught unprepared.

And you know this how?

Originally posted by Reheat
reply to post by Bilk22

 

You dare to criticize others for posting false information and you post tripe such as this. Underground defenses at the Pentagon only exist in your imagination... There are no defenses of this nature at the Pentagon and never have been, period.

Originally posted by Bilk22
And you know this how?

He is a

retired USAF Pilot with extensive experience in pilot trainings areas and in fighter operations. He has over 200 combat missions accumulated in two different conflicts. He also has airline experience both domestic and international.

You're an architect with 27 years experience.