New york to amend health bill, trying to ban the sale of electronic cigarettes!!!

reply to post by antonia


Antonia

I have the answer for you - lets all each pay for our OWN health care.

Girl - you best be talking facts when you are talking to me. Smokers not only pay their own health care like everyone else, they also pay excessive taxes. In Canada, smokers pay about 10 billion dollars per year to the federal government and another billion or so to the provincial government. Then there is the so-called fact that smokers die younger and therefore cost less in long term health care and pensions.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

How about this Antonia? How about if I am allowed the option of opting out of paying for YOUR healthcare. Reduce the taxes on tobacco and leave me to deal with my own health care? AND you pay for yours!

It isn't denial to demand the right to live my life as I choose. Its denial to decide that you know better than anyone else what is "good" for them. Its also very ego centric.

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by LightSpeedDriver


LightSpeedDriver

Hate to be the one to inform you of the facts but American Spirit has Polonium 210 as well. The Polonium 210 is not natural to tobacco. It is contained in the organo-phosphate fertilizer that tobacco is grown in.

In Canada - none of our cigarettes have any flavorings or additives or preservatives. Such things were banned decades ago.

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Lonewold1979000

Big Tobacco is losing no money whatsoever. Do a google on tobacco stocks. They have never been higher nor paid out better dividends.

Tired of Control Freaks

Originally posted by mytheroy
Every e cig I buy is a waste of money I'm a big draw so the battery does not last long I have to keep putting the drops in it consistently, one may last a month before I have to buy another battery, e cigs for me do not work.

You need a better e-cig.

They are Not all created equal. Sounds like you have one with a low voltage battery, probably 3.2 volts if it looks like a regular cigarette. Mine looks like a cigar and has a 7 volt battery. It''s voltage is adjustable so i use it at 5 volts - the correct rating for the type of atomizers I use which are 3.0 ohm atties. It's called a Lavatube. With this, I only take a normal drag like i would on a cigarette and get tons of vapor. The charge in the battery last easily all day so i just have to charge at night while im sleeping.

Go to some good e-cig forums like www.e-cigarette-forum.com and do some research on the different types. Fine a better model. I would even suggest a Riva which has a 3.7 volt battery uses a 2.0 ohm atty and also lasts all day between charges. These can run you only about 35 dollars for a kit with two complete e-cigs. A Riva set i bought over a year ago is still going strong.

Don't give up! It can save your life. best of luck.

I just bought an E-Cig, a disposable model to test out, so I can get through a day in this warped, twisted, evil society of noses stuck in my business without having a nicotine fit and without having to interrupt my day to segregate myself from others.

I tried it out on a very rare occasion: a dinner at a restaurant. I almost never go to restaurants, and the last movie I watched in a theater was "Star Trek: Generations" over 20 years ago. It worked great. I was able to get through the entire meal, sit and chat a few minutes over a nice glass of tea, and when I left my lighter didn't flame on the microsecond it hit outside air. I casually lit a real cigarette halfway across the parking lot.

I have no intentions of giving up my smokes. I roll my own now, and do feel a health difference since doing so. My next step is to grow and cure my own tobacco, naturally. But I do need to interface with others at times, and the E-Cig seems to be an acceptable compromise. My next model will be refillable and I am investigating making my own refills.

So I am not surprised to hear about this. This is not about health; it never has been. It is about corporate greed, political power, and the belief that people have this God-given right to run the lives of others. I reject all those assertions.

It's also about control: "The redneck got hisself one 'a them fancy E-Cigs! Outlaw 'em, quick!"

Hopefully December 21st will get there before this reaches Alabama. We could use a good global disaster right now.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by SoymilkAlaska
reply to post by josephamccoy

 

this is probably because of that one story where that guy tried to recharge the batteries in his electronic cigarette, (the batteries are NOT supposed to be recharged, i repeat THEY ARE NOT RECHARGEABLE)

and it went BOOM, and he lost his face or something.

Get your facts right.

There are TWO kinds of e-cigs. Rechargeable and non rechargeable ( also called disposable) Mose e-cigs are the rechargeable kind. All e-cigs that are made to be rechargeable do come with rechargeable batteries and a charger.

Yes, batteries can explode. Out of missions of batteries sold every day a percentage of all of them, no matter what type, do explode. It can happen to you with your cell phone, your camera, your ipad your hearing aid even.

Originally posted by Opportunia
reply to post by josephamccoy

 

My issue with these AND regular cigarettes is the sugar content. YES that's right. Did you know that nicotine isn't really that addictive. And many are saying it's actually the sugar that the tobacco is soaked in to make it taste better. Sugar is cancer's FAVORITE food and EVERY vape user and cigarette smoker are depositing cancer food into their lungs. Not only that it is also known to cause teeth damage. My niece recently started and had BEAUTIFUL teeth. Now she has staining in the front. They say it is from vaping. People are getting cavities from it who've never had dental problems before vaping.

Why invite problems you're trying to get rid of? It's the SUGAR that is so addictive and THAT is why it's so easy for you to switch to vaping, since there is probably MORE sugar in the vape cartridge contents. Sugar IS more powerful than even coc aine and does NOTHING positive for your body ingested in this fashion. It is ONLY going to give you cancer and rot your teeth, YUK.

There is NO SUGAR in E-cigs !!!!

Sugar burns at low temps, much lower than e-cigs use. It would turn to carbon as your trying to vape it and choke you creating smoke at that point. Yes, some e-liquids are sweet, but sugar is Not used.. it would be impossible to use sugar in e-cigs.

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by antonia

 

Girl - you best be talking facts when you are talking to me.

Patronize someone else.

Its denial to decide that you know better than anyone else what is "good" for them.

I was discussing the health implications of smoking. I did not say i know what is best for you. I don't care what you do with your body. Have a bad day.

reply to post by antonia


Antonia

And which health implications would those be? Is there a single disease that smokers get that non-smokers don't get?

The only evidence that smoking CAUSES anything is from something called epidimiology. Epidimiology really isn't a science. Its the practice of observing groups of people called samples and comparing what happens to them as opposed to a control group.

Epidimiology is great for finding things where the CAUSE is known. For example: We know that drinking water contaminated with e. coli bacteria causes a specific disease. We know this because people observed that when water was consumed from a certain well, people got sick. Scientists confirmed that e. coli was causing the sickness by examining a drop of water in a microscope and finding the e. coli bacteria.

Wonderful. Where epidimiology goes wrong is when people think that it can determine the CAUSE of something. It can't. The best epidimiology can do is observe that when people smoke - they seem to get more lung cancer. That is CORRELATION. It doesn't matter how strong the CORRELATION. CORRELATION IS NEVER CAUSATION.

Its at this point, where science is supposed to take over. Scientists must take this information and do research to determine if they can find a biological pathway to confirm the CAUSE

To date: with all the headlines and media soundbites, here is where epidimiology stands on smoking. There seems to be a positive CORRELATION between HEAVY smoking and lung cancer. Science has been unable, despite more than 60 years of research, to determine CAUSATION.

In every other disease, supposedly CAUSED by smoking, the correlation provided by epidimiology has been too weak (showing a relative risk of less than 2.0 or 200 %) to even support the need for more research.

You, Antonia, have been hoodwinked by snake oil salesman. You have donated money to cancer research and many other causes based on what you have been told. And it is costing us billions of dollars to continue with this scam.

I am not having a bad day Antonia - I am having a very good day, because I know how to think and I don't believe everything I am told. I am a free woman and you are a slave.

Tired of Control Freaks

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by antonia

 

You, Antonia, have been hoodwinked by snake oil salesman. You have donated money to cancer research and many other causes based on what you have been told.

I haven't donated money to anyone.

because I know how to think and I don't believe everything I am told.

Good for you

I am a free woman and you are a slave.

Good for you, we now know you know everything. And you accuse more of being egotistical lol.

reply to post by antonia


You are not interested in facts Antonia. Like all puritans, you are a hate-filled woman who demands the right to choose what is best for everyone else AND the right to control others.

Well -here is your just reward. You have secretly been glad that smokers get lung cancer and hoped they would get it in order to "teach them a lesson".

(And when I say "you" I mean the generic "you" of the anti-smoking tribe)

Here is your reward - the incidence rate of lung cancer among NEVER-SMOKING woman is now greater than the incidence rate of smoking males.

www.cancer.gov...

HA HA - what you wished on others - you will now get for yourself! Instead of demanding research into better treatments for lung cancer, anti-smokers decided that they KNEW the cause of lung cancer. They took the money that should have gone to medical research and paid themselves exorbitant salaries to run the propaganda and dehumanization of smokers.

Now they will reap what they have sowed!

www.cancer.gov...

Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


Firstly, I never said I wanted to ban anything. I simply stated you are in denial about the health implications of smoking. I don't care if you smoke. In fact, i stated banning e-cigarettes was wrong. I smoked years ago, I quit because I found my singing suffered due to decreased lung capacity. I did not say "Cancer", nor did I wish it on anyone. I think you are a little too emotionally invested in the subject.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


The lies are beginning to unravel:

www.ctv.ca...

This is the personal story of a never-smoker who avoided second-hand smoke all of her life. She is shocked to discover she has lung cancer!

Read more: www.ctv.ca...

Tired of Control Freaks

And here is the collateral damage of the anti-smoking movement. Collateral damage which affects everyone. This is only one negative result of stigmatizing 1 group of people.

www.medicinenet.com...

This is a link where experts discuss how lung cancer is so closed associated with smoking that it is difficult to get money for proper research into better treatments for lung cancer. It states that although lung cancer is the leading cause of death, breast cancer gets $27,000 in research money for every case and lung cancer gets a paltry $1,400 for every case


Tired of Control Freaks

reply to post by antonia


Antonia

I am not in denial about anything. I have done an awful lot of research and came to my own conclusions.

I don't believe you ever smoked. I believe you are an anti-smoker. Why is that? Because you are not interested in discussing facts and research. You are only interested in quick little bites of information.

You stated you didn't want to pay "extra" taxes for smokers but made no apologies whatsoever when I proved you wrong. As a matter of fact, I notice you showed no interest in allowing each person to pay for their own health care.

Then, just to be hateful, you wished me a bad day - for what reason - because I failed to agree with you and provided links to prove my point. You attacked the person - not the facts.

No - you are definitely more than a casual poster. You are one of the anti-smoking "volunteers".

Tired of Control Freaks

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by antonia

 

I don't believe you ever smoked.

Believe what you want.

I believe you are an anti-smoker. Why is that? Because you are not interested in discussing facts and research. You are only interested in quick little bites of information.

Here's the thing, you aren't interested in anything other than proving your behavior won't hurt you. You are only going to present facts which defend your position. How do you explain the statistics which show the increased incidence of lung related illness in smokers?
while-science-sleeps.com...

You stated you didn't want to pay "extra" taxes for smokers but made no apologies whatsoever when I proved you wrong. As a matter of fact, I notice you showed no interest in allowing each person to pay for their own health care.

This discussion is not about health care. If you want to have that conversation we can do that somewhere else. I do however have the right to say I don't want to pay for you behavior. I don't think smokers should be taxed extra either.

Then, just to be hateful, you wished me a bad day - for what reason - because I failed to agree with you and provided links to prove my point.

No, I did it because you patronized me and talked down to me. Don't expect people to be nice to you when you aren't nice to them.

reply to post by antonia


Here is another little tidbit of information that might interest everyone. Its from the Lung Alliance.

www.lungcanceralliance.org...

"Nearly 80% of New Lung Cancer Cases are Former and Never Smokers"

Antonia

You want to have a reasonable conversation then we can do so. I am a reasonable person. Don't try to change the subject from lung cancer to something else. The fact is that never smokers get just as much respiratory diseases as smokers. The evidence linking smoking to COPD is all epidimiology and it has a weaker association than lung cancer.

These are the facts. For about 100 years now, smokers have been told that smoking has health risks.

Fact 1 - the only heath risk that epidimiologists have been able to truly tie in with smoking is lung cancer. However, science has never been able to identify the biological pathway by which this happens. We have a smoking gun but no bullet.

Fact 2 - the incidence of smoking in the population has been decreasing since the 1960s From 65 % of the population to about 20 %

Fact 3 - the people getting lung cancer now are never-smokers and former smokers. Smokers get 20 % of the lung cancer. This is reasonable because Smokers represent about 20 % of the population. Never-smokers get about 20 % of lung cancers. This is also reasonable because never-smokers represent about 20 % of the population. Former smokers get about 60 % of lung cancers. This is also reasonable because former smokers represent 60 % of the population.

Are you kinda maybe getting the idea that maybe smoking is NOT the cause of lung cancer?

Fact 4 - Smokers have been dehumanized and stigmatized. We have been treated like lepers and have been robbed through excessive taxation. We are denied the right to speak to our government on the issue of smoking because of an international treated called the Framework Convention on Tobacco, developed by the UN. Smokers have been denied the right to jobs and housing. We have been denied our constitutional right to peacefully assemble together for the purpose of smoking together. The product we consume has been tampered with by lowering the nicotene level and by the addition of fire retardant chemicals. Elderly smokers have frozen to death because of the denial of basic shelter that the law required that you give your dog! We have been taxed without representation.

Fact 5 - The whole population has been denied research into treatment of lung cancer by anti-smokers. Crime and corruption have risen due to the excessive taxation on tobacco. Violence has erupted and young people have died.

Fact 6 - NO ONE HAS STOOD UP FOR SMOKERS DESPITE WATCHING ALL OF THIS HAPPEN

Fact 7 - Smokers today - drinkers and the obese tomorrow.

Now go ahead - tell me something more about denial!

Tired of Control Freaks

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I just bought an E-Cig, a disposable model to test out, so I can get through a day in this warped, twisted, evil society of noses stuck in my business without having a nicotine fit and without having to interrupt my day to segregate myself from others.

I tried it out on a very rare occasion: a dinner at a restaurant. I almost never go to restaurants, and the last movie I watched in a theater was "Star Trek: Generations" over 20 years ago. It worked great. I was able to get through the entire meal, sit and chat a few minutes over a nice glass of tea, and when I left my lighter didn't flame on the microsecond it hit outside air. I casually lit a real cigarette halfway across the parking lot.

I highly recommend getting the good versions, big battery, and liquid refill caps (check out things like Vec. You can even make your own strength nic and such). The difference between that and those really crappy disposable ones are significant...I suspect the disposable ones are actually put out by tobacco companies in order for you to think you tried it and it didn't work very well.

I am, or was, a heavy smoker...about 25-30 a day. I realized most of my smoking habit came from sitting in front of the computer without thinking...I got the ecig with no intention of quitting..just see if it even remotely helps..bought a good one, some various juices (tobacco and other flavors at 24mg), Long story short, down to about 4 cigarettes a day now, and keep in mind, I don't want to quit cigs..I just want to enjoy the ones I do intentionally smoke. I feel I could easily quit cigs now with this...just haven't bothered trying (got too much tobacco anyhow, so would feel like I am wasting it). But ya, you realized even the absolute worst product helped you sit through a movie...now get yourself a really good one and watch how much you just naturally cut down (trick is to keep using it though, don't wait for cravings to start coming).


On topic:
The only reason they would ban ecigs would be to cater to the tobacco industry. Corruption 100%, there is no reasonable argument against ecigs...they need to ban cigarettes way before they ban this..and alcohol, and even caffine drinks. a pepsi is far more damaging than puffing on a e-cig (Caffine and Nicotine are fairly equal, but caffine also comes with sugar and all other sorts of nonsense).

Fight this.

The Tobacco Industry is feeling the pay cut from so many switching to E-Cigs would be my best guess.

I found the e-cig (or whatever you called it, didn't sound very "catchy" lol) just 2 days ago. All I can say is where the hell has it been all my smoking life? I'm amazed! It really takes ALL the effort away from stopping the fags. Me and my partner are on the vape now and we can't even bare to smoke a fag! They taste disgusting!

I was a pretty heavy smoker and I have found it so easy to stop. There is no looking back for me. If I lived in new york I would be running to the shop and buying up every damn cartridge I could get my hands on! lmao.

Nothing surprises me with the fools in government though to be honest. Everything is backwards or upside down. I don't even care what they say to be honest. I just ignore them and do whatever I want to do. As long as I hurt no-one then anything goes as far as I'm concerned.

I mean why on earth would we follow the rules of a bunch of corrupt criminals anyway? Lets stop calling them politicians and government/officials etc. Lets use their REAL names! Like GANGSTERS and MAFIA. At least then we would be truthful with ourselves!