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Originally posted by ButterCookie
Originally posted by g2v12
reply to post by ButterCookie
I'm curious as to why you haven't responded to my post ButterCookie.
To what in particular?
If its about the statement that many southern white racists vote republican, what is our point? Part of the reason this happened as a result of Johnson's Southern Strategy; as this population saw the migration of the black vote toward the Democratic party, they no longer wanted to be affiliated with that party, and thus switched their preference.
Also, it could be that this population simply aligns their political ideologies with the Republican Party/ Personal Responsibility, less government.
What is your point?
Originally posted by g2v12
reply to post by ButterCookie
There's allot going on in your introductory post and I haven't had time to review all of the responses, so I am not privy to the general spirit that exists, but your query caused me to mention a few observations.
First, you spoke of what you feel the parties are representing now through a couple of scenarios you experienced first hand. You also compared the two parties through a historical construct. I'm just not sure how the past and present are being applied, since there has been a good amount of political reform and fundamental shifts in the paradigm of American social conscience, and in politics as well.
For example, you mentioned that the Democrats supported the institution of slavery (1860s). Yet, in the 1950s civil rights movement the (white Democrats) aggressively lead the way for desegregation, marched with Martin Luther King and went into poor southern black American communities to encourage voting. Pres. John F. Kennedy appointed forty black Americans to federal posts, including five black federal judges, Pres. Lindon B. Johnson signed off on the 1946 Civil Rights Act.
On the Republican side, I would personally tend to recognize this group as an organization that has profited nicely by shifting the funding of needed social programs to proliferate a two front war in the Middle East (which has created five million orphans) and the formation and expansion of America's police state through the Patriot Act, which endangers freedoms for all Americans.
I think that as people, we recognize these patterns according to personal values and what we hold as reality and of course through the filters of our frame of reference.
You mentioned how the Republicans supported free enterprise and working, as opposed to how Democrats supported laziness through a bloated welfare dole. Thirty years ago I saw the Rep. party support of "capitalism" as a political means to shift the center of wealth from the laborer to the wealthy (elitists) through their push of the NAFTA trade treaty. NAFTA allowed US manufacturers to retain a much greater share of the profits by cutting out American workers and weakening the unions. In addition, Republicans were the force in every amnesty for millions of Latin Americans working in the US illegally, which was another step in destroying the local labor wage in the housing market and construction.
BTW, I was a Republican all my life, as my father and grandfather before me. I voted for Obama because my party became dominated by greedy, fascist extremists who were threatening my economic future and constitutional liberties.
I could go on and on indefinitely, writing a one hundred page dissertation on how destructive this party really has become. I think the bottom line for everyone is that they vote according to personal values. The real matters that confront us as Americans are the things which have the most historical context. Recent history, not the civil war period, but more along the time line of post WWII.
Your post is really great because it gives everyone a chance to consider his position and revise the data and its contexts.edit on 21-6-2012 by g2v12 because: arrangement
Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by g2v12
Ok. I am sorry that you are not 'convinced enough'. There is really no argument here. This thread was really not for you to believe or not anyway...it was more for people to understand my personal switch of the political parties based on fact and yes, history. Race is not a major them, as you state. It is important, however, because the majority of the black community are only democratic by tradition- they really don't understand politics nor the agenda of each party. MOST, not ALL blacks. So this is something that may hit home with other black ATS'ers that have began to research the parties, or just to tell my story on things that I have learned about the subject.
I am not sure why you have a problem with that- I can only advise that you ignore the thread if it 'offends' you, or if you continue to find it hard to believe that identity or party affiliation.
No energy to perpetuate racism with you, so I am not buying into your 'argument' with me.
Be well.
Originally posted by xEphon
In 2012 I don't think you'll find much difference between the Democratic or Republican party. They are both owned and run by corporate interest.
Of course you have your superficial differences between the two, but at the end of the day, the President and whichever party he belongs to will tow a fairly moderate line.
When people say that Republicans and Democrats are just two sides of the same coin, they aren't lying.
I'm registered Independent.edit on 16-6-2012 by xEphon because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Skyfloating
Bottom line is that a strong economy producing a bunch of rich people is better overall, even for the poor. Liberals dont see this because they take on a victim-perspective. They think that becoming rich means one would have to take money away from the collective. Republicans, on the other hand, think that by providing/selling goods and services to the collective one becomes rich. While there is certainly merit to a number of liberal policies, fiscal wisdom certainly isnt one of them. Nice post btw.edit on 16-6-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)
The U.S. economy appears to be coming apart at the seams. Unemployment remains at nearly ten percent, the highest level in almost 30 years; foreclosures have forced millions of Americans out of their homes; and real incomes have fallen faster and further than at any time since the Great Depression. Many of those laid off fear that the jobs they have lost -- the secure, often unionized, industrial jobs that provided wealth, security, and opportunity -- will never return. They are probably right. And yet a curious thing has happened in the midst of all this misery. The wealthiest Americans, among them presumably the very titans of global finance whose misadventures brought about the financial meltdown, got richer. And not just a little bit richer; a lot richer.
Originally posted by ButterCookie
Originally posted by NoHierarchy
reply to post by ButterCookie
Ok no...
First of all, your entire thread is RIFE with BS.
YOU CANNOT BUY AN UPPER-MIDDLE CLASS LIFESTYLE WITH WELFARE/FOOD STAMPS. Anybody who actually tells you this is lying or completely full of it. So yes, OP, I am either calling you a liar or full of complete falsehoods.
Secondly, the MODERN DEMOCRATIC PARTY is NOT the same as the SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS of the Civil War Era!!!
The SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS of the Civil War Era were CONSERVATIVE RACISTS. That's right- they were RIGHT-WING by today's standards and supported Jim Crow laws.
Abraham Lincoln may have been CALLED a Republican, but Republicans/Democrats were DIFFERENT back then than they are now. Abraham Lincoln was actually more SOCIALIST leaning than any Capitalistic/Religious nut/War-mongering BS the Republicans are all about now.
No. You just made yourself look very, very ignorant as regards to historical knowledge as well as socioecoomic information.
It is a historic fact that Abraham Lincoln was a REPUBLICAN, which was a newly formed party as a result of an anti-slavery sentiment. This president did in fact ABOLISH slavery, and in fact did create the 13th,14th, and 15th amendments.
Regardless if Lincoln was in LOVE with blacks, the fact is that he and his party moved to end slavery. Can you say the same for the Democratic Party? No.
It is fact that Democratic ideology mirrors socialism, in that they desire to have everyone living on the same level regardless of productivity or input to society.
As a matter of fact, I'm done explaining the incorrectness of your post, as most on here are smart enough to see right through it, and that you are upset that you are loyal to a racist, socialist party.
It is FACT that most section 8 vouchers pay for up to $160,000.000 worth of housing. These tenets usually are receiving food stamps, the welfare check, free childcare, etc. So how is it that you want to pretend that his cannot happen??
Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by ButterCookie
Its easy to say why you don't like a certain Party (Dem).
So tell me, What wonderous things will the GOP do for a "black woman".