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Neutrons Might Be Disappearing Into A Parallel World

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Neutrons Might Be Disappearing Into A Parallel World


planetsave.com

The existence of mirror particles may explain the anomalous loss of neutrons witnessed during recent experiments, according to a new study just published in the European Physical Journal (EPJ) C.

Experimental data obtained by the research group of Anatoly Serebrov at the Institut Laue-Langevin, France was reanalyzed by theoretical physicists Zurab Berezhiani and Fabrizio Nesti from the University of l’Aquila, Italy. They found that the loss rate of very slow free neutrons appeared to depend on the direction and strength of the magnetic field applied. This anomaly is unexplainable by known physics.

(visit the link for the full news article)



edit on 16-6-2012 by LiveEquation because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Well what do you know, it seems nowadays science in delving into the unknown or paranormal. This is a very interesting phenomenon to have been proposed by science and published in a peer reviewed journal. I wonder if quantum choices are available so people can leap from one verse to another. Talking about this, Maybe this post belongs in the paranormal... I saw someone who looked exactly like my friend yesterday, i even went to go say hi to him wondering how he had traveled thousands of miles in a few seconds cuz i had just seen pictures he had just posted on facebook cuz he is away on an exchange study program.

Reminded me of my own personal experience when people working upstairs at my workplace came down to give me lab results i hadn't asked for. They told me i was upstairs in their lab 15mins earlier...I was in a meeting away from campus.

Maybe this parallel universe thing is real...i dont know, think i will muse

I know they might be people out there who have experienced these anomalies but just dismiss them as anomalies
planetsave.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 16-6-2012 by LiveEquation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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All in the mind mate



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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Well think of this, what if Stars are white holes, that are black holes in it's parallel universe.

the only thing with parallel universes, pending I existed in them, wouldn't I be dead? lol If I'm alive here.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


Might be all in the mind but who was the imposter that looked exactly like me or the guy that was basically my friend clone. This guy pretended he didnt know me. Of course i didnt ask him to show me the world map where he comes from. I just left. it was bizarre. The person who was my imposter, that is a mystery in itself. I just told the lab staff it was me so they do not fear that their work was compromised.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by Moneyisgodlifeisrented
 


Well according to quantum theory, you exist everywhere at the same time and you cannot be killed. Instruments that measure you can only change the reality you are in. I think that is what it says if i understand it right



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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I admit I'm not familiar with this research or phenomena.

It is interesting in the sense that it seems to be challenging the tenant of the First Law of Thermodynamics... well - from the perspective of "our universe" at least.

If you make a neutron go away - you are making energy go away. If I'm understanding this correctly... they have discovered a phenomena where neutrons just "poof" - fall out of existence. ... Which is a physics no-no.

Of course - the article doesn't exactly explain much... and I was also outside for 12 hours in 222 degree heat... so I could be misunderstanding something, here (and even hallucinating this entire thread, for all I know - wouldn't that be entertaining?)

While the parallel universe idea is interesting.... it's a little difficult to prove that your particles are going to a parallel world and not just hanging out in some kind of "pocket dimension" or some other oddity produced by the limitations of language.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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or maybe the subatomic particles that make them up are breaking down and rearranging as electrons or protons...



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Interesting thought...If you recall the double slit experiment ( I will refer to some class materials from a dot edu website)

Quantum Lecture


...
The seemingly impossible really happens: (Back to the double slit later.)

Nature defies common sense, and this really happens: an electron or other particle can disappear in one location and simultaneously reappear at another location if the wave associated with the particle extends to the other location. After you buy that, we can make sense out of the rest of it. Here are some examples of the disappearing-reappearing magic:


- Tunneling. An electron does not have enough energy to penetrate through a barrier, but if the wave of the electron exists on the other side, there is a probability that it will disappear on one side and reappear on the other side. Measurements show that the distance divided by time is greater than the speed of light, so it is not a case of traveling through- it really disappears and reappears simultaneously. The tunnel diode and the scanning tunneling microscope make use of this effect.
-Optical tunneling. For example light that enters the prism as shown is totally reflected at the diagonal. But if the other glass (the rectangle) is placed close enough, much closer than in the picture, some light enters it. The laws of electricity and magnetism do not permit the existence of light in the gap, since 45o is greater than the critical angle of glass, but photons can disappear in the prism and reappear in the rectangular solid.
-Radioactive decay. An alpha particle does not have enough energy to escape the nucleus, but under the right conditions it can tunnel out, much like in the above cases.
-Electron transitions in atoms. If an electron absorbs a photon it gets kicked up to a higher energy level, or it can give off a photon and drop to a lower level if one is available. These transitions are instantaneous- another disappear- reappear case.
This property of nature is so pervasive that even in totally empty space, particles pop in and out of existence. This is known as the vacuum polarization, so called because they appear as equal and opposite charges, a dipole.


Yes most of you like myself do not sit comfortably when an explanation like parallel verses is used by scientists to explain a phenomena they cannot explain. Below are more links

ScienceDaily Link
NASA+Harvard

I havent really read the science behind it, but i will read the paper which can be found at "Free Paper at springerlink.com", at least its free to read although i suspect its too technical
edit on 16-6-2012 by LiveEquation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by LiveEquation
 


It certainly does beg the question of where they go when they make their "quantum jump" ... I've not given it any serious "think time" in a few years, it may be time to revisit the concept for enjoyment!



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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It won't be assumed unless there's more evidence to confirm it. If that evidence does appear, we will just make up another theoretical limitation to renormalize our equations of the neutron for the sake of retaining our conservation laws.

But if this were proven, it would have devastating consequences on both string theory and gravitons.
edit on 16-6-2012 by imherejusttoread because: syntax.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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If neutrons from our world can disappear into another world, then neutrons from other world(s) can disappear into our world.

If neutron disappear into other worlds then so can people.
edit on 16-6-2012 by WilburMercer because: a letter disappeared into another dimension, oops!



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by WilburMercer
If neutron disappear into other worlds then so can people.


Not particularly. A particle can tunnel through a barrier that classical objects can't. Quantum information can be instantaneous but classical information can't.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by imherejusttoread
It won't be assumed unless there's more evidence to confirm it. If that evidence does appear, we will just make up another theoretical limitation to renormalize our equations of the neutron for the sake of retaining our conservation laws.

But if this were proven, it would have devastating consequences on both string theory and gravitons.
edit on 16-6-2012 by imherejusttoread because: syntax.


since we have no way of putting a "marker" on them to determine if it's the exact same particle, it's a little complicated. With this, I lean toward the theory that they are converted into energy and that energy is reconverted into matter, keeping within the law of conservation. Although it is, indeed a particular type of particle that was at one point and then another as though it had "jumped out of existance", that doesn't mean it's the exact same particle.
I have no experimental data to back up my hypothesis on it and it's merely a thought exercise, but that's where I stand on it until shown otherwise.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by WilburMercer
If neutrons from our world can disappear into another world, then neutrons from other world(s) can disappear into our world.

If neutron disappear into other worlds then so can people.
edit on 16-6-2012 by WilburMercer because: a letter disappeared into another dimension, oops!


Not exactly. Every subatomic particle that makes up that person would have to instantaneously "jump" and come back into the same existance as before the "jump".... I see it as a conversion from matter to energy and back to matter and the odds against it would be ...well....infinite

....like your edit reason though LOL



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by LiveEquation
 


Idk, maybe it explains doppelgangers. Just a thought...


Peace



posted on Jun, 17 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleChiten
reply to post by LiveEquation
 


It certainly does beg the question of where they go when they make their "quantum jump" ... I've not given it any serious "think time" in a few years, it may be time to revisit the concept for enjoyment!


The real question that has been bothering me for a long time is why would a particle decide to "wave in and out" to change location. I don't think that the fact that it disappears means that it has gone out of existence. It just means it is a wave and not a particle anymore. That is not a mystery. The question is when is it suitable for a particle to wave in and wave out and why



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by LiveEquation
 


The many universe and the parallel universe theory are not figments of the imagination, spawned by horror writers. They are honest to god scientific angles of approach, with mathematics and mounting, although currently inconclusive amounts of evidence to support them.

People need to get a grip here. We are talking about a realm that is suggested by various behaviors of some of the more unusual particles that physics tends to fixate on, NOT the afterlife, or the realm inhabited by the creators of our species. This is a possibility posed by the mathematics that has been done which tries to explain particle behavior, the beginning of the universe as we know it, and all of existence as it can be known at this time. This is serious science, not bloody voodoo!



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Aim64C
I admit I'm not familiar with this research or phenomena.

It is interesting in the sense that it seems to be challenging the tenant of the First Law of Thermodynamics... well - from the perspective of "our universe" at least.

If you make a neutron go away - you are making energy go away. If I'm understanding this correctly... they have discovered a phenomena where neutrons just "poof" - fall out of existence. ... Which is a physics no-no.

Of course - the article doesn't exactly explain much... and I was also outside for 12 hours in 222 degree heat... so I could be misunderstanding something, here (and even hallucinating this entire thread, for all I know - wouldn't that be entertaining?)


You are missing a bit. There has been a long time speculation on "supersymmetry" theories which hypothesize other forms of particles which are 'pairs' to the ones which we know. There is no single form of the theory, but there are theories with actual equations and calculations deducing consequences from them. There are good theoretical reasons (which is a translation for "makes the math look pretty to humans" which is not equivalent of being true in Nature) for supersymmetry, and of course the theorists are interested in fitting them into various experimental anomalies.

There has, so far, been no direct experimental proof of supersymmetry, but no direct experimental disproof of the main theories so far. After finding the Higgs (which is actually boring if it exists just where people think it is), looking at supersymmetry is the main job of the LHC.

These results are trying to test supersymmetry in a wholly different, and much less expensive, way.

In any case, the notion that a particle can "flip" states is not at all unknown in quantum mechanics. Technically what it may mean is that the 'rest state' is not an 'eigenstate' (meaning pure state) of the particle species. This sounds pretty weird (and it is---it is quantum mechanics!) but the notion of pure and mixed states has been there in quantum mechanics from the beginning and is one of the most bizzare yet true parts of nature.

If one of the 'quantum observables' is "neutronness" --- or really the flip between "normal neutron" and "supersymmetric neutrons" (it's actually more complicated since neutrons are not elementary, they have 3 quarks and the quarks have to do the flipping) might occur.

In our normal course of business, electrons and regular atoms don't ever 'flip' into anything else with any frequency.

There is a rough analogy in classical physics. Take vertically polarized light to be like "normal photons". And horizontally polarized light as "alternate photons". Then also suppose that our instrumentation and physical world only responded to vertically polarized light. The notion of 'polarization' of light would only be a hypothetical construct in that universe! Now suppose some slightly elliptically polarized light was generated---in the vertical-polarized universe such photons would appear to "flip" between "existing" (vertically polarized) and "not existing" (horizontally polarized). But really, it was just doing its own thing because it was not in a pure state of polarization.

In a rough sense this is what the flavor switching/oscilation might be described as (mathematically think of time dependent matrix rotation)

This 'flavor switching' has already been deduced from data from neutrinos flowing out of the Sun and nuclear reactors, and understanding this (neutrino oscillation) resolved some previous problems with neutrino data.



While the parallel universe idea is interesting.... it's a little difficult to prove that your particles are going to a parallel world and not just hanging out in some kind of "pocket dimension" or some other oddity produced by the limitations of language.


It is hard, that's why particle physics isn't done by amateurs.
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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit

People need to get a grip here. We are talking about a realm that is suggested by various behaviors of some of the more unusual particles that physics tends to fixate on, NOT the afterlife, or the realm inhabited by the creators of our species. This is a possibility posed by the mathematics that has been done which tries to explain particle behavior, the beginning of the universe as we know it, and all of existence as it can be known at this time. This is serious science, not bloody voodoo!


exactly. It's also incorrect to call it a "parallel" universe, since properties and interactions of of the supersymmetric particles are not at all direct mirror image of normal particles. It could be all just a giant unbound cloud of funky radioactivity, though we secretly wish for Mr Spock With a Beard.



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