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License to have children

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posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by Germanicus
 


I would agree as fas as things not being working right in general but when you put it like that I must disagree...

(I do believe that eugenics should have a "more visible" and ethically scrutinized implementation on society)

Who decides what proper parent are ? (I see so much that could go wron just there)
What will you do with the "violations", the babies ? (I see so much potential for abuse and dehumanization there)
How will you punish the violators ? (again prone to be abused and to serve as a way to impose one's morality on others)

In general you plan would fail in most states (China implements something like this) because of the religious movements against contraception and abortion (I do however support a fine or even time in a family planing course for multiple abortions in a small number of years, with exceptions for criminal events, or proven genetic defects). In any case if you legislate on reproduction the state gets a huge amount of power and the slippery sloop starts, like in South America the sterilization of Indian population that is happening now, minorities and undesirables would be put at extreme risk. Now that I think about it how has China operated in this field in Tibet anyone knows ?




posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Panic2k11
 


What the hell is a "working right"? Has it escaped people's minds that long before there were governments there were people having children? Who gave them the right to do this? Who gave early humans the right to procreate?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Idonthaveabeard
 


Wow, have I learned a lot from reading both sides of the fence on this one! I see valid and invalid points on both sides!

Now let me ask you all this? Look at the elite in this world now who are known Eugenicists and support sterilizing people without them even knowing it!!! Hmmmm, let's see, the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, (vaccines that they say are to save those in third world countries but instead kill them and sterilize them without even knowing it), our wonderful science Czar John Holdren!? How about Margaret Hamburg, the head of the FDA? There are many more, but not getting into it at the moment. Just look them up if you are curious.

Let's not forget all of the arguing going on about GMO crops, which have studies showing how one group of pigs were fed organic grain and another fed GMO grain. The ones that were fed organic didn't have any problems and the ones who were fed GMO had spontaneous abortions????? So really, what is worse? A world government who underhandedly sterilize the population without us know it, or one that is up front about it and at least let's us know where the bear s#$ts in the woods??

Also, let's take a look at farming and how it seems that corporate farms get a free pass, but yet organic natural farmers get Agenda 21 thrown in their face and get shut down by the likes of companies like Monsanto! Seriously, I don't expect people to be like me and research what they eat, but have you every actually taken a look at the ingredients in the processed food that you buy in the store every day and then actually take the time to look it up and see what it actually is and does to your bodies chemistry??

Our corporate run government has made it impossibe for a family to sustain itself with all of it's rules and regulations and licenses! Need meat? Ya have to pass a test to get your hunting license! Then if you pass, you need to pay every year so you can go out and hunt ONLY when they tell you too so that you can feed your family!
Hell, you can go to jail now for deciding to sell or consume raw milk? Oh, you want to sell meat, well we have a whole new set of laws you need to abide by! Just take a look into history and you will see, that rarely did a government regulate the way we live and eat as they do currently! So compared to the good ole days, it isn't as easy to provide for your family in this wonderful modern world we live in!! Just another fine example of how the government makes you ask and pay for permission and gets you dependent on their authority......

Then let's talk about how parents actually are. There are good ones, and there are bad ones, and YES they cover both ends of the spectrum of haves and have nots!

The haves, how many of them spend so much time at work and other work functions that they rarely even get to be parents? How do they compromise usually, they buy their children every damn thing they want to try to make up for their desire to serve their corporate masters over their family! Most of us can figure out how these children end up! Hell, just look at Washington D.C.!!!! Hint!

The have nots, yep, they are the ones you see on the nightly news that someone found their 2 year old child playing on the street while they were getting high at a neighbors house!

Ok, I gave two extreme examples from both ends of the spectrum! But what about those in between who actually do care and try to raise their children to be respectful human beings, reguardless of their incomes???

I agree it is a VERY slippery slope! However, I hope some of you think back to the old days and how families weren't dependent on being told what to do by the government, and were able to grow and catch their food without licenses and permits.... it seems (being that we are all here) it worked out very well! Another fine example of fixing something when it wasn't broke in the first place! Just more criminals trying to figure out how to fleece more money from the serfs!

Also don't be so quick to think that by disagreeing with the OP, that we might already have these kind of things already happening to us, but we just don't realize these underhanded scum that are in charge are actually psychotic enough to do it to us!! Eugenecists seem to be everywhere in the circle of power that we have running this world!

Having a group that is in charge of the world that we have now, is definately not a group that you want to put your trust in and go to bed at night thinking that you are safe!



So I might have rambled some, but it was based on how I saw some good and bad points from both sides of the debate and these were the things that came to my mind.....



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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We have forgotten our first Love.

We worship idols.

We have become greedy and selfish to the point that we live beyond our means therefore we are indebted to the system and lenders (banks, banks own governments) which makes us slaves.

This crazy idea may one day be.

May God have mercy on us.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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I got to say, I am all for ending the funding of food stamps, medicaid, medicare, child care credits, and heck any forced giving (for the purpose of this thread lets just say the things that help people who get pregnant). Charity is not dead by any means. Welfare breads resentment to the taxpayer and a feeling of entitlement for the recipient, unforced charity breads satisfaction in the giver and appreciation in the recipient. This is my take on the financial side stated real simply.

I don't even begin to understand how you can think that someone should have the ability to pick who can bread based on some preconceived notions on how their kids may turn out or based on a current constantly changing situation of life.

I would argue that if your hoping to prevent suffering it would be easier to move everyone who wants to regulate something to one very closely populated city and let them go out it. I think they would regulate themselves out of existence very quickly and solve the issue of overpopulation that many seem concerned about.

I don't know how seriously I should be taking such an (in my opinion) ignorant post.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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Having a license to do many things still doesn't stop poor decisions. Many people shouldn't drive,practice medicine, or several other things those licenses permit them to do.

The problem is the dummying down of the masses has been achieved on such a great scale we have reached a point where it is showing in a big way.

Out of control children,ineffective parenting, just plain neglectful parenting , Desires for material wealth instead of finding happiness in the things and life you have already. It is a bleak future should this continue.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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If I have no rights, I have no responsibilities. That's really about all I've got to say about it. I don't have a right to choose to breed well, but then simultaneously I have a responsibility to breed well?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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why are you worrying about other peoples kids. that's not your problem.

it's people like you why society has so many regulations and bureaucracy that it is stifling the very nature of freedom.

the only life you have a right to control is your own. what you are proposing is the exact opposite of democracy.

democracy should only be used to resolve disputes peacefully, it is not to be used to control peoples lives.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Ok first I'm going to address the people who clearly didn't read my opening post properly. I didn't say that only the rich can have kids, in fact I even made another post to clarify it's not dependant on finances.

Who is going to make the decisions? As has been mentioned, people already go through rigourous checks to adopt a child, it would be something similar. Intact all of you happy clapper giving it the 'oooo you gotta educate the people'. Who are these people who will do this life changing educating? Some people just don't want to be told anything. There are a really under class of people in this world who just don't deserve to have children, never mind shouldn't be allowed to.

Anyone who thinks things are fine the way they are, are deluded an burying their heads in the sand. Idiots will generally raise other idiots. I've seen families full of these people who do no work and spend all day causing problems for others, I've been on the wrong end of those problems a few times myself.

Seriously, what is so wrong about having to show you have the ability and competence to bring a child into the world before you go ahead and do it?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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How about instead of idiotically adding another service that we have to pay for, just take away all the funding for having children. Let them grow up in piss poor conditions. Either they'll die or they'll fight to survive learn and make something of themselves. The only reason that they cost the taxpayer more money isn't because people have the right to breed it's because we enable that behavior. Get rid of the benefits and less people will have kids or give them up for adoption. Then survival of the fittest could finally take shape again instead of all these half wit protection schemes we have. I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people, I'm just saying get rid of all the laws and benefits that enable them and let nature take its course.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Idonthaveabeard
 





Ok first I'm going to address the people who clearly didn't read my opening post properly. I didn't say that only the rich can have kids, in fact I even made another post to clarify it's not dependant on finances.


Of course you follow this exclamation with this:




Who is going to make the decisions? As has been mentioned, people already go through rigourous checks to adopt a child, it would be something similar. Intact all of you happy clapper giving it the 'oooo you gotta educate the people'. Who are these people who will do this life changing educating? Some people just don't want to be told anything. There are a really under class of people in this world who just don't deserve to have children, never mind shouldn't be allowed to.


(Emphasis added)

Some people don't want to be told anything by disingenuous people like you.




Seriously, what is so wrong about having to show you have the ability and competence to bring a child into the world before you go ahead and do it?


Define "competence". Seriously, you don't want to argue that governments generally show competence in their governance, do you?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by BoyTheEarthTalksTo
If someone is collecting welfare it may be a good idea to require the birth-control shot?


Here we go again, attacking the poor!

We dont need castration, we just need better education.
TPTB have deliberately dumbed people down so that we end up with the problems we see today, then everyone begs them to CASTRATE THEM.

Wake up, what we see today is EXACTLY what they want us to see.

All you that want castration lets start with your children fisrt shall we?


Your wrong.

I don't think requiring people on welfare to get a birth control shot to be attacking the poor. Your requiring people who have an unstable living arrangement and income to not have kids till they get their lives stabilized.

Quit blaming TPTB for societies problems. TPTB are a fictional conglomerate of people who some claim exist so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves.

TPTB don't make kids drop out of school,
TPTB don't make kids take drugs,
TPTB don't make guys run around having 10 kids by 10 different women,

PEOPLE makes those choices because they don't want to work to make themselves better, they want the easy way in life or the easy money.

The world is in the shape it's in because people are greedy, stupid, selfish, lustful and have no personal responsibility anymore.

Blame the worlds problems on whomever you wish but if you want to know who is really responsible
just look in the mirror!



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by mwood

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by BoyTheEarthTalksTo
If someone is collecting welfare it may be a good idea to require the birth-control shot?


Here we go again, attacking the poor!

We dont need castration, we just need better education.
TPTB have deliberately dumbed people down so that we end up with the problems we see today, then everyone begs them to CASTRATE THEM.

Wake up, what we see today is EXACTLY what they want us to see.

All you that want castration lets start with your children fisrt shall we?


Your wrong.

I don't think requiring people on welfare to get a birth control shot to be attacking the poor. Your requiring people who have an unstable living arrangement and income to not have kids till they get their lives stabilized.

Quit blaming TPTB for societies problems. TPTB are a fictional conglomerate of people who some claim exist so they don't have to take responsibility for themselves.

TPTB don't make kids drop out of school,
TPTB don't make kids take drugs,
TPTB don't make guys run around having 10 kids by 10 different women,

PEOPLE makes those choices because they don't want to work to make themselves better, they want the easy way in life or the easy money.

The world is in the shape it's in because people are greedy, stupid, selfish, lustful and have no personal responsibility anymore.

Blame the worlds problems on whomever you wish but if you want to know who is really responsible
just look in the mirror!


Well, try this for size.
In the uk working wages ARE being rapidly replaced with the MINIMUM wage. A family on minimum wage is below the poverty line. Soon the entire country will be on the minimum wage. So according to YOUR logic the british citizen will soon be extinct because according to you they should not have children.

People need to understand that we are not poor because we want to be, we are poor because greedy corporations and a corrupt government force us to work for minimum wage.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Just when I thought that I couldn't find a scarier thread. Here's the problem I see. Yes, there are plenty of people that shouldn't have children, but unfortunately you or I shouldn't have the right to choose who can or cannot have kids. On my best day I'm pretty objective in deciding things, but I'm human & I couldn't say that I couldn't be swayed by emotion or personal gain.

Let's say you're a caseworker in the "who get's to have kids department". An outstanding citizen that has two brilliant and well adjusted kids wants to go for a 3rd, you have a serious personal problem with this citizen. You decide not to stamp their paperwork. You might be thinking to yourself "I would NEVER let personal issues get in the way of my official duties" and that might be true, but swap positions... now you're the person with two great kids and someone that holds your 3rd childs fate in their hands doesn't like you, can you be sure that they'll be able to put aside personal differences and uphold their duty? Would you bet your childs life on it?

Alternate situation, A top 1% wealthy family has a history of making poor parental decisions (Think Paris Hilton) but they offer you $5,000,000 for you to rubber stamp their "have a kid" paperwork. Would your moral compass be true enough to do the right thing? If so, do you think most people would do the same?

Here's the thing, If I can't trust myself to make the right decision regarding others & I'm a pretty stand up guy. Knowing the corruption in government that we currently have, there is no way in hell that I'd trust some bureaucrat to decide If I can or can't have children.

If you can't see the endgame, this is how it ends up. First it starts with "If you're on welfare, you can't have kids" Now in theory, that kind of makes sense, If you can't afford the kids you have now, why should you be allowed to have more? Judging by the replies in this forum, there are many "Shortsighted" folks here that play checkers instead of chess that would be in favor of that plan. They would rejoice in their victory! "We finally got em!"

But soon the income cut off level keeps rising, (kind of like the social security retirement age) and it's getting close to and is about to surpass what you and your wife gross yearly. "There's no way that could happen" you'd say. Yes it can, and in fact YOU voted for it and were in favor of it! The infrastructure would already be in place, the only thing changing is the gross combined income.

BIG BROTHER IS NOT LOOKING OUT FOR YOU! "We the People" must look out for ourselves. The day the government passes something like this is the day that I'll be thankful that we have a 2nd Amendment, because on that day I'd be forced to use the 2nd Amendment for the purpose that our founding fathers inteneded it to be used. To fight against a tyrannical government.

It has been used tremendously in the past years, but I want you to really think about the intent of this poem.

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

-Niemoller
edit on 16-6-2012 by EyesWideShut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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while it isn't necessarily our right to have children because having a child affects everyone, especially when you look at the direction we're going. but again you guys are acting like nazis trying to fix social problems by implementing tyranny. It can't be done that way. It has to come out of the people. Can't fix social problems without first fixing consciousness



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by biggmoneyme
while it isn't necessarily our right to have children because having a child affects everyone, especially when you look at the direction we're going. but again you guys are acting like nazis trying to fix social problems by implementing tyranny. It can't be done that way. It has to come out of the people. Can't fix social problems without first fixing consciousness


Farting adds methane to the environment and therefore effects everyone. Are you going to argue that farting is not necessarily a right either?



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by biggmoneyme
 


Really, people don't have a "RIGHT" to have children? Do you have a "RIGHT" to breathe? The fact that you're breathing affects all of us as well. The way some people think is scary. I'm hoping this thread is some sort of "group think" experiment & adult rational humans don't really think like this.



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You beat me to it.
2nd



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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Who decides what qualifies you to get a license?
can it be revoked?
How will this be immune from corruption?

The answer to the last one is no btw.

That why the whole thing is ridiculous



posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Idonthaveabeard
Ive always been in support of this and I personally think it will be the 1st step to getting humanity on track again.


Wait, when has humanity EVER been on track?


2nd line






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