Why didn't anyone tell me about The Big Bang???

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


True... we all do have different views.... some of our views are based on logic, reason and observable phenomena... some are based on fairy tales..... you seem to omit this distinction....

I consider myself an Atheist... but I would never claim that god certainly does not exist.... this would be arrogance... instead, I apply logic and reason to both arguments..... can I at least ask you to do the same...

Good try mate... but you're flogging a dead horse... AGAIN....

How many times have I heard this ridiculous argument from religious people..... it, like your belief structure, does not make sense.....

That is all...

PA

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I am reading about the big bang and evolution. Did you know that the universe started from a tightly condensed piece of matter, exploded into total chaos, and then miraculously formed a very organized and structured universe?

This is completely amazing to me – especially considering that the elementary laws of science claim that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So that means that god is actually a unemotional, unconscious, ball of total chaos that appeared out of nowhere and created everything that is!!!!!

Peace.

You got yourself a bit confused here mate.... you state that the universe was created from a "tightly condensed" piece of matter.... but then go on to say that matter cannot be created or destroyed....

Again... I hear this ridiculous argument from your side that "something cannot come from nothing".... yet you yourself freely admit that the singularity from which we propose the universe was created from is condensed matter.... same amount of matter.... just a lot smaller....

See, you tried to be clever in your OP... but forgot that you're not... really, if you're going to attempt to mock me and my ilk, do it in an educated, effective manner...... otherwise we merely scoff in your general direction...

PA

Originally posted by luciddream
All i can say is, believe in a god that is not made by man(a personal god), once you mention you belong to a man made god religion and that w/e they say is fact, get ready for the ridicule.

These rules were made by men for control, you think if there is a all powerful god, he would hate gays who he created? and all those stupid rape/sex/salve/conquer crap.

i mean if you still believe in those type of religion and take them as fact and way of life... i'm sorry i can't help but ridicule.

Believe in god that is YOURS and YOURS only. its called SPIRITUALITY!

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

Why? Why should I get ready for ridicule?

Why are you so much better than me? Is your brain better? Is your ideas better? Are you flawless?

No, you are flawed. You have problems. As do I....

You are in no position in this life to point a finger at me or anyone else. And I can promise you that, and I don't even know you. Shame on you.

Originally posted by PerfectAnomoly

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I am reading about the big bang and evolution. Did you know that the universe started from a tightly condensed piece of matter, exploded into total chaos, and then miraculously formed a very organized and structured universe?

This is completely amazing to me – especially considering that the elementary laws of science claim that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So that means that god is actually a unemotional, unconscious, ball of total chaos that appeared out of nowhere and created everything that is!!!!!

Peace.

You got yourself a bit confused here mate.... you state that the universe was created from a "tightly condensed" piece of matter.... but then go on to say that matter cannot be created or destroyed....

Again... I hear this ridiculous argument from your side that "something cannot come from nothing".... yet you yourself freely admit that the singularity from which we propose the universe was created from is condensed matter.... same amount o fmatter.... just a lot smaller....

See, you tried to be clever in your OP... but forgot that you're not... really, if you're going to attempt to mock me and my ilk, do it correctly.....

PA

That wont be possible, normally scientist or non believers usually read all the religious book there is, so they can criticize on it, sadly most religious don't bother reading science books so they just jump the gun with emotion and fall face down.

Originally posted by PerfectAnomoly

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I am reading about the big bang and evolution. Did you know that the universe started from a tightly condensed piece of matter, exploded into total chaos, and then miraculously formed a very organized and structured universe?

This is completely amazing to me – especially considering that the elementary laws of science claim that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So that means that god is actually a unemotional, unconscious, ball of total chaos that appeared out of nowhere and created everything that is!!!!!

Peace.

You got yourself a bit confused here mate.... you state that the universe was created from a "tightly condensed" piece of matter.... but then go on to say that matter cannot be created or destroyed....

Again... I hear this ridiculous argument from your side that "something cannot come from nothing".... yet you yourself freely admit that the singularity from which we propose the universe was created from is condensed matter.... same amount of matter.... just a lot smaller....

See, you tried to be clever in your OP... but forgot that you're not... really, if you're going to attempt to mock me and my ilk, do it in an educated, effective manner...... otherwise we merely scoff in your general direction...

PA

edit on 15-6-2012 by PerfectAnomoly because: Small alterations...

Brother, this was tongue-n-cheek.... The top part, the unbolded part, was just a joke. It was to show the insanity of such debates. And apparently it worked if you or anyone else finds it stupid. Because it is.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by luciddream
All i can say is, believe in a god that is not made by man(a personal god), once you mention you belong to a man made god religion and that w/e they say is fact, get ready for the ridicule.

These rules were made by men for control, you think if there is a all powerful god, he would hate gays who he created? and all those stupid rape/sex/salve/conquer crap.

i mean if you still believe in those type of religion and take them as fact and way of life... i'm sorry i can't help but ridicule.

Believe in god that is YOURS and YOURS only. its called SPIRITUALITY!

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

Why? Why should I get ready for ridicule?

Why are you so much better than me? Is your brain better? Is your ideas better? Are you flawless?

No, you are flawed. You have problems. As do I....

You are in no position in this life to point a finger at me or anyone else. And I can promise you that, and I don't even know you. Shame on you.

Because you are believing facts made up by SOMEONE else and CANT be proven again.. see the difference?

SOMEONE IS THINKING/THOUGHT FOR YOU! you believing in someone's ideals and you are living it. That is why i suggested a personal god, no one can ridicule you that way.

edit: i was talking about people believing in the concept of the religion, not directed at you. It was directed at whoever invented the religion you are following.

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle

Originally posted by luciddream
All i can say is, believe in a god that is not made by man(a personal god), once you mention you belong to a man made god religion and that w/e they say is fact, get ready for the ridicule.

These rules were made by men for control, you think if there is a all powerful god, he would hate gays who he created? and all those stupid rape/sex/salve/conquer crap.

i mean if you still believe in those type of religion and take them as fact and way of life... i'm sorry i can't help but ridicule.

Believe in god that is YOURS and YOURS only. its called SPIRITUALITY!

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

Why? Why should I get ready for ridicule?

Why are you so much better than me? Is your brain better? Is your ideas better? Are you flawless?

No, you are flawed. You have problems. As do I....

You are in no position in this life to point a finger at me or anyone else. And I can promise you that, and I don't even know you. Shame on you.

Because you are believing facts made up by SOMEONE else and CANT be proven again.. see the difference?

SOMEONE IS THINKING/THOUGHT FOR YOU! you believing in someone's ideals and you are living it. That is why i suggested a personal god, no one can ridicule you that way.

edit: i was talking about people believing in the concept of the religion, not directed at you. It was directed at whoever invented the religion you are following.

edit on 6/15/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

But the same thing could be said of people who follow other scientific ideas that others created.

You cannot disprove God - so why are you so certain God does not exist?

A part of me is baffled by non-believers. When a child tells me about santa bringing him presents on Christmas - I don't belittle the child, and say, "You are so stupid for thinking that," etc. So why whould anyone who doesn't believe get so upset at religious people? Shouldn't they get equally worked up about the Easter Bunny, or Santa Clause, or the Tooth Fairy?

There are ideas that certain things happen in the universe in certain ways, but it can't be proven.

Why can people not say, there might be a God, its just not proven yet?

Because if there is a God - then that God will exist within and become part of the accepted natural universe. Thus becomming science in its self.

My honest thoughts are as follows:

There are somethings in religion that is wrong, and there are some things that are right.

I think the more we advance in our science, the closer we will come to God.

I think that eventually we will have what I call the Grand Unification Point - which is where our science will meet God.

I think we will eventually discover that they are one and the same.

reply to post by MentorsRiddle


Atheism is not a religion. It is just a lack of belief in a higher power. Not all atheists adhere to evolution, or the big bang; nor do they have "faith" in these things. A deity denotes some kind of conscience, or at the very least consciousness, which an act such as the big bang lacks. There is no intelligence, emotion, thought, or personality behind the big bang, unlike any mono/polytheistic deity.

What needs to happen, is that the theistic among us need to realize that religion, faith, and spirituality are personal endeavors; being so, they should remain only with the individual, and out of school, politics, and communal activities. Keep your faith in your church, and let science, reason, and experimentation lead the way elsewhere.

Religion plays off of emotions: feeling loved, and like you're the "center of everything" to some god. Science builds off of reason, and logic; evolving and rewriting itself as we discover the reality of previously unknown situations. Emotion should never lead the pursuit of truth or reason.

Everyone would get along just fine if religion quit trying to become a political and scientific institution, and instead stayed put where it belongs: filed under belief, not fact.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by MentorsRiddle

especially considering that the elementary laws of science claim that matter cannot be created or destroyed.

When talking about the laws of nature we're dealing with descriptions of the way the Universe works under certain conditions or in certain instances. So when we're dealing with events, such as the Big Bang, that happen before or right after the Universe even began to exist, we might not be able to apply the laws of nature, or even the forces of nature.

Also, the Singularity most certainly existed before the Big Bang, as far as we know it was NOT created from nothingness. As a matter of fact the idea of NOTHING itself might be worthless as recent discoveries suggest that even empty space is filled with something. This energy that exists in the vacuum of space is known as vacuum energy. Also the discovery of virtual particles which pop in and out of what we might call existence.

This is all very confusing stuff, some of it is still in the hypothetical realm as far as I know. I like to go back to the quote from biologist J.B.S. Haldane:

"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

It may be that science will eventually bump into things that are so bizarre our language, and our brains, simply CANNOT be wrapped around them. It may be that we've already discovered some of these things

reply to post by MentorsRiddle

You cannot disprove God - so why are you so certain God does not exist?

Nor can you prove the existence of God either; so why do you believe it exists? Second, which God do you believe exists, and why doesn't (insert any name of the other hundred-thousand deities) exist?

A part of me is baffled by non-believers. When a child tells me about santa bringing him presents on Christmas - I don't belittle the child, and say, "You are so stupid for thinking that," etc. So why whould anyone who doesn't believe get so upset at religious people? Shouldn't they get equally worked up about the Easter Bunny, or Santa Clause, or the Tooth Fairy?

Does belief in Santa Claus lead to the crusades? If someone believes in the Tooth Fairy do they burn human beings alive for being witches? Does a professed belief in the Easter Bunny cause you to try to vote away equal rights for non-believers? No one has ever been beaten to death for believing in faeries, or boogeymen; but they have for not believing in God.

Do you see the difference yet?

There are ideas that certain things happen in the universe in certain ways, but it can't be proven.

And along the same lines, there is much which happens in the universe that we have made correct hypotheses on. Similarly, nothing about deity can be proven in the slightest, so why would we not settle for the little we do know, over a "god of the gaps" to answer that which we do not yet understand?

Because if there is a God - then that God will exist within and become part of the accepted natural universe. Thus becomming science in its self.

There is a God! His name is Amun-Re, and he has godly associates who are known as Oðin, Bride, Pan, Iŝtar, and Teŝub. Come on, everyone knows this!

~ Wandering Scribe

Being agnostic is the only religion for me. But I feel safe in my opinion that all religions are man made lies people told their kids to explain how things worked and how to behave in the world and they just kept changing and evolving until people began to write these bedtime stories down.

Then people killed in the name of bedtime stories

Christians havent changed a bit lieing to their children making them believe in things like a bunny that lays eggs and a fat man that breaks into houses at night to give them presents.

Someday people will worship the egg bunny and santa claus as god

Anyways the big bang obviously has flaws almost as much as any other religious text. Most atheists I know dont believe in the big bang theory.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
Anyways the big bang obviously has flaws almost as much as any other religious text. Most atheists I know dont believe in the big bang theory.

Thats the thing, they don't worship The big bang theory as the only truth, they know it iwll change, science will change as it understands more things, if it changes they will accept the change unlike stubborn 2000yr old beliefs.

well at least world is round, or they still have doubts?

The Big Bang is so amazingly ridiculous, I dunno where to start.

This appears to be another in a long line of threads where people who know little to nothing about atheism, the big bang theory or evolutionary theory yammer on about it from the high horse of ignorant confidence. Good luck to you and I hope you find peace within yourself soon.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle


While religious people have faith in a god or divine being, atheists have faith in a big bang or some other means of universal creation.

Well me personally, i believe in a creator but i also believe in a big bang. I sincerely wanna know what that says about me or what that makes me. I'm just curious what my fellow ats members think.

Sigh. Here goes. Science=God, God=Science. Now what do I mean by this? I would like to go at this from a religious angle. Science people, please just watch for a few.

Okay, let's agree that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Fine. We take that as a fact of faith. Now here is where you need to do a little 'open minded' thinking. It all begins with that word - "created". So the question now is 'did God just slap some rocks together and pull a giraffe out of the ground by it's ears, or, did God set the Universe in motion based on a specific set of rules and organization?"

Now, moving on to just one aspect of the Universe we live in. Gravity. Gravity is a well known fact. It exists. It is measurable. Even though we don't really understand the force behind gravity, there is no denying its affects. So, if gravity is a constant in our Universe, and the Universe was created by God, does it not stand to reason that God then created gravity?

So to expand that argument out, God did not haphazardly throw the cosmos together with little or no understanding of how it all worked. He did so with a precise and exacting set of rules. The rules we know today as science. Science shows the miracle behind Gods all knowing ways.

Almost done. First we need to travel back a few hundred years. Back to when the Sun orbited the Earth. Back to when to knowing the workings of the human body was heresy. Back to when religion was 'more correct' than science. We know today how the solar system works, even though there was a time religion said otherwise. We now have medicine when at one time it was the work of the devil.

What I am trying to say is that by denying science you deny God and the order upon which he created the Universe. Just because you don't see how science works with God's word it doesn't mean they are incompatible. Unless you still believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth, then maybe, just maybe, there could have been a big bang. Remember, just because a scientific theory does not fit in with your current religious view does not make it untrue, it just may mean that you need understand that God knew what He was doing when He created us all.

Oh, for the science side. While we can theorize and measure to our hearts content, we truly don't know how the Universe works. We have up quarks, we have down quarks but what we don't have is a knowledge of how they fit in the grander scheme of things.

So, is there a God? We have no way of knowing. Hey, we may just part of a large computer program. I guess what I am saying here is, while not probable, is it not also possible that the ordered rules of the Universe were influenced by an outside source?

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
This is completely amazing to me – especially considering that the elementary laws of science claim that matter cannot be created or destroyed. So that means that god is actually a unemotional, unconscious, ball of total chaos that appeared out of nowhere and created everything that is!!!!!

This doesn't follow at all. The content of big bang theory is simply a statement about what the universe looked like many millions of years in the past. It doesn't say anything about God or the origins of the universe. You're just exposing your ignorance.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
I think this is real because I read about it in a book.

Is this a dig at religions?

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle Actually I think there are several books about it. I wonder if people have faith in it? I mean, it’s kinda hard to deny its existence when I’m actually watching a story about it.

You needn't have "faith" in it. There's evidence for it! In fact there's a great deal of evidence for it, in the form of elemental abundances, cosmic microwave background radiation, the hubble relation and much more. When you can back up a statement with evidence, it ceases to be faith and enters the realm of scientific testability. The big bang theory has survived to date because it agrees with the evidence.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
Let’s start a religion! After all – faith is believing without having total proof – and we do not have total proof for this!!!

You can never have "total proof" for anything. Faith is believing despite a total lack of evidence.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle Also it defies laws of physics by existing without a source – so it has already performed a miracle!

Nothing in the big bang theory defies the laws of physics- it is explained by the laws of physics. As I said before, it's simply a description of how the universe behaved when it was very young.

The fact that the universe itself exists without an apparent source is indeed mysterious, but this has nothing to do with the laws of physics or what the universe looked like when it was young.


Eh, why do I feel like I'm wasting my time...

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
The Big Bang is so amazingly ridiculous, I dunno where to start.

Please explain what is so ridiculous about it.