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Koch-Fueled Americans For Prosperity Plans Protest Against ‘Extremist’ Kids Flying Kites

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posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 07:46 AM

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by LDragonFire

I support the rights of private citizens to do what they please with the money they earned...this is America.

This one I have from Milton Friedman's son Thomas (also neoliberal): What if my neighbor builds skyscraper just south of my property? The skyscraper will block sun, my garden will be lost (he is using swimming pool but that is elitists point of view - garden is more important, at least for me).
BTW it is interesting book: Is possible to base law solely on market principles? He replays: Yes!. I'm not so enthusiastic in this regard.

ADD: The problem is pretty easily solved if your garden is for profit: owner of skyscraper will pay you average annual profit as compensation - here is Thomas right. But he neglect the situation when your garden is "pleasure" or "hearth" thing. How you will compute the loss? How you can compensate loss which is not enumerable? Will Kochs even understand such problem? It is fact that majority of politicians and top business men are psycho/sociopaths. They do not have ability to feel emotions hence they have no ability of empathy.
edit on 15-6-2012 by JanAmosComenius because: add

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:14 AM
When words like extremist are synonymously used to describe a terrorist and a kite flyer, something is seriously wrong. When that isn't even questioned something is seriously wrong with our general psyche.

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:17 AM
It's not about the kites!! Nice spin though. It's about the abominal wind farms that a certain element wants to construct off shore all over our country. They want to do it up here off the coast of Lake Erie.

Just a sucking black hole for tax dollars, an eyesore for those of us who enjoy navigating the open waters and an undetermined impact on the local ecology. It's a massive gamble with very little benefit.

The actual title of the article in question. The Koch Bros. element is classic!!

"AFP Plans "Global Wind Day" Counter-Protests - Friday, June 15"

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posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:26 AM
Some critical information to complete the story.

You’ll remember that right here in New Jersey; the State has already authorized a $100 MILLION taxpayer subsidy to install windmills off our coast. This scheme would be a disaster for the state, raising rates and killing jobs!

The Beacon Hill Institute’s economic analysis of this boondoggle showed it could cost New Jersey as much as $4.137 BILLION, drive electricity rates up 4.2% in 2017, and result in as many as 4,440 lost jobs!

“The Most Expensive Offshore Wind Power In The World”

More recently, outside consultants for the State said that a proposal to complete this boondoggle would result in “The Most Expensive Offshore Wind Power In The World”. If implemented, the plan would cost New Jersey:

A staggering $946.1 million in economic activity over 20 years;
The loss of almost 30,000 jobs; and
Would drive up electricity rates by $286 million! 019bb2963f4.html

Enough of the disposal of taxpayer dollars on this junk...

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:32 AM
reply to post by jibeho

Subsidies for green or renewable energy don't even compare to subsidies for fossil fuels.
edit on 15-6-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:52 AM
ALEC and the Koch Bros. have been waging a war against wind farms since they don't have any financial stake in those. The DO have a major financial stake in coal and other energy industries. That's the reason they want to kill wind and solar energy.

Coal and non-renewable energy is the single biggest recipient of federal subsidies out there.

]Federal coal subsidies

Federal coal subsidies are forms of financial assistance paid by federal taxpayers to the coal and power industry. Such subsidies include direct spending, tax breaks and exemptions, low-interest loans, loan guarantees, loan forgiveness, grants, lost government revenue such as discounted royalty fees to mine federal lands, and federally-subsidized external costs, such as health care expenses and environmental clean-up due to the negative effects of coal use. External costs of coal include the loss or degradation of valuable ecosystems and community health.

According to research by GigaOm analyst Adam Lesser, buried in a 2011 report from the International Energy Agency is the fact that fossil fuels currently receive subsidies via "at least 250 mechanisms."[1]

In June 2010, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) said $557 billion was spent to subsidize fossil fuels globally in 2008, compared to $43 billion in support of renewable energy. In a July 2011 EIA report on federal fossil fuel subsidies, coal was estimated to have tax expenditures (provisions in the federal tax code that reduce the tax liability of firms) with an estimated value of $561 million in FY 2010, down from $3.3 billion in FY 2007.[2]

Fossil Fuel Subsidies Six Times More Than Renewable Energy

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 08:58 AM
reply to post by Kali74

Fossil fuels drive the world. Cut all the subsidies and let the private enterprises duke it out. We've got massive problems in this country and dumping all of that money only exacerbates the problem. We need to pick apart all subsidies regardless of the industry. Why does Blue Diamond nut company et. al. receive millions in subsidies?

U.S. Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) today released a new oversight report, “Treasure MAP: The Market Access Program’s Bounty of Waste, Loot and Spoils Plundered from Taxpayers” highlighting more than $2 billion in taxpayer dollars indirectly subsidizing the advertising costs of some of the most profitable agriculture companies and trade associations doing business overseas. You will recognize many of these company brands as household names, such as Welch’s, Sunkist, and Blue Diamond. Despite their combined $2 billion in sales in 2009, Treasure MAP shows how these companies received more than $6 million in 2012 from taxpayers for product promotion. Also receiving millions from taxpayers for private overseas advertising are the agricultural trade groups whose members include Tyson Foods, Purina, Hershey’s, Georgia-Pacific and Jack Daniels. With a multitude of other agriculture, and fiscal priorities facing our nation, this report shows it is time to reduce funding for the Market Access Program (MAP).

“At a time when we are cutting funding for our troops, taxpayers cannot continue to subsidize the filming of Reality-TV shows in India, wine tastings for foreign journalists, pet food advertising, and even to advertise pet shampoo anymore,” said Dr. Coburn. “We need to make tough choices.”

Among the key findings, the report exposes:

• Blue Diamond Growers almond company has received more than $28 million from MAP since 1999 to market its almonds overseas.

• Reality TV fashion and design show in India, Let’s Design, received $20 million.

• One of the world’s biggest sellers of fresh fruit, Sunkist Growers, received $34.1 million since 1999.

• California raisin growers received $31.7 million since 1998 to promote branded image California Raisins, internationally.

• A company specializing in organic hair products for dogs, cats, and horses, including “Boost! Volumizing Spray” and “Freeze! Hair Hold” hair sprays for dogs, Espree Animal Products, receives MAP funds to boost sales in the U.S. and overseas. 04-8cb9378aa03a&Group_id=7a55cb96-4639-4dac-8c0c-99a4a227bd3a&MonthDisplay=5&YearDisplay=2012

Wind farms won't fuel my car or the world but wind can certainly power my Tartan sailboat. Wind energy has its place as a supplement on a small individual scale. There are plenty of small turbine systems that can be installed anywhere with very little ecological impact on a case by case basis. You want subsidies? then push for the cash to install these small systems to be used in residential and commercial applications to take the drain off the grid instead of trying to recreate the grid. You know what that means though. Rates will go UP to offset the revenue lost to those who generate their own power. The public utilities are making too much money to afford that loss.

The full report.
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edit on 15-6-2012 by jibeho because: link errors

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 09:32 AM
reply to post by jibeho

Yes fossil fuels do drive the world but it is a limited resource. Fossil Fuel companies and corporations smash as much as they can, research and funding (private or government), then they wage these ludicrous negative public relations campaigns (wind energy is actually viable, not perfect but viable and less expensive after initial costs) that a small amount of scientific research would make you laugh at their claims. No wind can't drive your car but it can charge a battery that can drive your car.

At least you have the integrity to say cut the fossil fuel subsidies as well, I can respect that.

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 09:54 AM
Fossil fuels receive an inordinate amount of subsidies, and these are some of the world's most profitable companies. Exxon Mobil made $9.4 billion in profits last quarter. Nearly 10 billion in profits in a 3-month stretch. Yet it like every other oil company receives massive federal subsidies. (that's actually down from their record profit of $40 billion ($11.4B quarter) back when Bush was in office)

Exxon Makes $104 Million In Profit Per Day So Far In 2012, While Americans Are Stuck With A Higher Gas Bill

  • $9.45 billion profits, or almost $104 million per day in the first three months of the year.
  • 13 percent: The tax rate Exxon paid last year, lower than the average American family.
  • 60 percent of its first quarter earnings, or $5.7 billion, on buying back stock. Became world’s largest dividend payer by increasing dividends 21 percent.
  • $1,091,000: Political contributions sent to federal politicians for the 2012 election cycle, making it the largest oil and gas spender.
  • 91% of these contributions went to Republicans.
  • More than $52,000,000: Lobbying for the first three years of the Obama presidency, 50 percent more than in the Bush Administration.
  • $34.9 million: Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson’s salary for 2011, a 20 percent raise.
  • $52,300: Political contributions from Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson in the 2012 cycle, alone.
  • No. 2: Fortune 500 list of richest companies and for highest-paid CEO.

Congress sure ain't going to end this gravy train any time soon: House spares nuclear, fossil fuel subsidies in votes that split GOP

The overwhelming recipient of federal subsidies is the oil industry: 60 Years of Energy Incentives: Analysis of Federal Expenditures for Energy Development

The main beneficiaries of more than $800 billion of federal energy incentives over the past six decades have been the oil and natural gas industries, a newly updated study reveals. The oil and natural gas industries together garnered 58 percent of federal incentives between 1950 and 2010, with 44 percent of the roughly $837 billion in federal support going to the oil sector, according to the report by the consulting firm Management Information Services Inc (MISI) Source: Nuclear Energy Inst. - click on the PDF file to read breakdown

Energy subsidy showdown: Fossil fuels, nuclear, biofuels vs. renewables

Renewable energy has snagged just a fraction of the federal subsidies that fossil fuels and nuclear received when they were emerging technologies, according to a new report from venture capital firm DBL Investors.

The report probably isn’t surprising to renewable energy backers who have long argued that subsidies for fossil fuels make it impossible to compete. And it’s unlikely to settle the debate over ending subsidies for the oil and gas industry. But it does provide a valuable historical view of each energy source and helps explain why they’re so dominant today.

And keep in mind Wind and Solar are EMERGING technologies. Back when Oil & Gas were emerging tech they received vastly more subsidies than renewables ever have. Even now, when O&G are massively profitable, they still receive heavy subsidies. Today NOTHING can compete with fossil fuel, the subsidies alone guarantee that.

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 12:34 PM
The Koch brothers agenda is SO friggin' transparent and obvious. They do everything in the sole interest of protecting their corporate profits. They don't give a flying f*** about anyone's personal liberties or freedoms - they just don't want government regulations (like protecting that pesky environment) standing in the way of their bottom line.

This has been documented on ATS time and time again:

Documented reasons why Koch Industries is the most vile and counterproductive company in the US

Koch brothers become political Big Brother

You Thought The Koch Brothers Were Bad? Turns Out They Are Even Worse Than You Thought

And yet there are still members here who are so blindly devoted first and foremost to their political ideology, and their need to justify anything right-wing media tells them to think - that they feel the duty to jump in and defend these idiots no matter how absurd the agenda is. Even when it involves going after kids with kites.

It's just sad that a website devoted to denying ignorance is littered with so many willfully ignorant robots.

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 12:40 PM

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by LDragonFire

I support the rights of private citizens to do what they please with the money they earned...this is America.

So you support a bunch of rich plutocrats using their wealth and influence to brainwash and manipulate some clueless rubes into protesting against their own freedoms (energy independence), because this is America - and they "earned" the right to become the conniving, amoral puppet masters that they are.

Does that mean the people of 1939 Germany should have all supported Hitler - because he came to power democratically, and speaking out against that would therefore be anti-freedom?

You want true freedom - then here's a tip: logic is more important than mindless big government rhetoric.

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 12:53 PM

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
Koch-Fueled Americans For Prosperity Plans Protest Against ‘Extremist’ Kids Flying Kites In Support Of Wind Energy

AFP will be going toe to toe with the environmental extremists to combat their radical agenda and tell the truth about the costs of offshore wind.

They are also behind THE NEW MAJORITY AGENDA.

..stomp them out!

edit on 15-6-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 02:21 PM

Originally posted by jibeho
You know what that means though. Rates will go UP to offset the revenue lost to those who generate their own power. The public utilities are making too much money to afford that loss.

Prices go up when demand drops???

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
And keep in mind Wind and Solar are EMERGING technologies.

People have been saying that for as long as I can remember.

Wikpedia says...

The windwheel of the Greek engineer Heron of Alexandria in the 1st century AD is the earliest known instance of using a wind-driven wheel to power a machine.

How many more millenia until it becomes a "mature" technology?

posted on Jun, 15 2012 @ 11:52 PM
reply to post by alfa1

Please don't tell me you are comparing ancient wind mills to a modern wind farm generating electricity...

posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Please don't tell me you are comparing ancient wind mills to a modern wind farm generating electricity...

Lets do that then...

The first windmills for electricity production were built by the end of the 19th century by Prof James Blyth in Scotland (1887)
La Cour's mill from 1896 later became the local powerplant of the village Askov.

Forerunners of modern horizontal-axis utility-scale wind generators were the WIME-3D in service in Balaklava USSR from 1931 until 1942

The modern wind power industry began in 1979

So I ask again, how long do you think it will be until the technology is "mature"?

edit on 16-6-2012 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:49 AM

Originally posted by sealing

The Koch Inheritence Brothers are public enemy #1

Whats Soros rank,on that list?

posted on Jun, 16 2012 @ 12:50 AM
reply to post by sonnny1

Soros ,Koch,Rockefeller Foundation all on the same side.Few businessmen like Clive Palmer (australia) have the guts to call them out.

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