The perils of debunking the hoax of 2012

Originally posted by Klassified
An interesting article and study stereologist. It confirms what advertisers, media, governments, and con men, have known for centuries.

As with anything. Those who want to believe, will. Those who don't want to believe, will find a reason not to. The rest of us will wait until we collect enough data to give us a reason to do either.

Sorry but your last line is not true, at least not for most. Most will only file away the truth that they identify with. Any other truth will not be aknowledged as truth. In other words, if people are comfortable with the idea they will adapt it if not they will not. Simple as that.

Originally posted by tucker81

Originally posted by XxRagingxPandaxX
reply to post by tucker81

 

While I'm sure there is much more to the story than then official story that parts not hard to understand. They took flying lessons that's how they flew it. They didn't live in caves and it's easy to take over a plane with knives when everyone else is unarmed. Last but not least it wasn't a super jet

So you believe the official "conspiracy theory." That makes you one of those terrorist conspiracy theorists, now doesn't it?

It makes them logical. It shows an ability to seperate the beef from the baloney.

Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE

Originally posted by Ben81
Stereologist
This 2012 and Nibiru planet subject do fascinate you
never seen someone trying to debunk a subject so hard

Nobody can debunk them

Yes! If it is such an obvious hoax, then why does the OP feel the need to start this thread?

In fact, the OP has over 10,000 posts - how many of them involve debunking and how many are original thoughts? Almost all are debunking - almost none contain original ideas - isn't that odd someone joining this site just to debunk others ideas?

edit on 14-6-2012 by PlanetXisHERE because: epiphany

Sorry if this offends you. We look at ourselves as the voice of reason.

Originally posted by FaceLikeTheSun
reply to post by Urantia1111

 

my thoughts exactly. It's interesting to watch where people place their trust. As someone who studied sociology, the whole 2012 fiasco is fascinating to watch.

On one hand, is it a ploy to sell books and cash in? Certainly.

But on the other hand, is there something to all the ancient writings pointing to 2012? Perhaps.

We won't know until we get there. Just a few months away now. But even if nothing happens, it will only play into the hands of TPTB in my opinion.

If you find even one ancient writing pointing to 2012 I will eat this computer. Go ahead, I will wait. I am not even nervous that I'll have to eat plastic and copper wires. la la la..... what ? You're still here ? No really, go....go and find even one ancient writing that mentions 2012. I'm waiting.

reply to post by karen61057


Well there is Tortuguero Monument 6. Of course that isn't a prophecy or anything. It just refers to a religious ceremony that would occur on that day. From all of my research this is the only reference I have found 2012 from any ancient civilization.

reply to post by karen61057

Sorry but your last line is not true, at least not for most. Most will only file away the truth that they identify with. Any other truth will not be aknowledged as truth. In other words, if people are comfortable with the idea they will adapt it if not they will not. Simple as that.

Excellent observation Karen. Most people will innately fall into the first two categories. But when you come to a point in your life where the truth of a matter is more important than being right, you are on the journey to the third group. Different people are at different stages of reaching what I like to call "true skepticism".

I believe a "true skeptic" will give any theory or idea a fair and objective hearing, no matter how mundane, ridiculous or outlandish that theory may be. And will consider all sources of information objectively. Because the "true skeptic" is looking for the truth of a matter, whether or not that truth fits their paradigm, or belief system.

For example, ET's are a very passionate issue for many on ATS. Many believe, many disbelieve, and this is the angle they debate from. I have had to admit to myself that the only reasonable stance I can take is, I don't know yet. I can choose to believe a certain way, but I don't know. And I am OK with the truth of the matter. I don't have a vested interest in whether ET exists or doesn't. So to me, the truth is more important than being right. And from that perspective, I can debate both sides of the issue comfortably.

I spent a good portion of my life being an absolutist. But now I strive to be more "Cartesian" in my approach to life. I have a ways to go. I still catch myself outside of those boundaries in my posts, but I am striving to do better at being a "true skeptic", instead of a believer or a debunker.

I hope that helps clarify my statement for you.

reply to post by Klassified

For example, ET's are a very passionate issue for many on ATS. Many believe, many disbelieve, and this is the angle they debate from. I have had to admit to myself that the only reasonable stance I can take is, I don't know yet. I can choose to believe a certain way, but I don't know. And I am OK with the truth of the matter. I don't have a vested interest in whether ET exists or doesn't. So to me, the truth is more important than being right. And from that perspective, I can debate both sides of the issue comfortably.

While off-topic, I just want to say that I agree with you completely on this matter. I personally find the widespread acceptance of the ET hypothesis to be the worst thing that ever happened to ufology. Ever since then the field has abandoned any kind of objective research in regards to the phenomenon and has instead turned into who can come up with the most out there story involving aliens while still selling a ton of books. That's why I admire Hynek so much. He looked at all the evidence and in the end all he could say was "I don't know."

reply to post by stereologist


It could be something that is none of those thigs and 2012 still wouldn't be a hoax. The fat lady of mother earth has not sang yet, so you can't predict that nothing you are aware of will happen. That is saying you can predict the future. What if tomorrow a bomb goes off in the middle east killing 47 people?

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by stereologist

 

It could be something that is none of those thigs and 2012 still wouldn't be a hoax. The fat lady of mother earth has not sang yet, so you can't predict that nothing you are aware of will happen. That is saying you can predict the future. What if tomorrow a bomb goes off in the middle east killing 47 people?

A bomb going off in the Middle East is hardly a planet sized object ending all life on Earth except for a select group that will "ascend" now is it......

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


If something happens and it is completely unrelated to all of the stories and claims to date would that in any manner validate any of the claims? No.

If I claimed that in 2012 there will be a shift in EM causing the sky to be yellow from now on and instead there was the discovery of a simple process to claim provide water for desert areas would I be able to claim I was right? Of course not. But that is what the 2012 believers would like to do.

All of the claims of new planets, awakenings, shifts in consciousness, etc. are all looking for something, anything, that can be used to validate their stories no matter how unrelated anything turns out to be.

reply to post by stereologist

Cool story.

I think the OP is a load of Craptacular Malarkey.

Can I get an Amen?

just keep an open mind and a clear head

reply to post by rebellender

I think the OP is a load of Craptacular Malarkey.

Do you have a reason or are you just being a scoffer?

If you require some evidence for the ideas there is plenty in the article in the OP.

reply to post by stereologist


I only seek the truth, have you seen any lately, or do you wish to promote an Idealism. Idealism isnt Science.

please let freedom and science ring loud like a bell for all to hear

reply to post by rebellender


So once again you have nothing to add to the thread. Thanks for dropping by.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by stereologist

 

It could be something that is none of those thigs and 2012 still wouldn't be a hoax. The fat lady of mother earth has not sang yet, so you can't predict that nothing you are aware of will happen. That is saying you can predict the future. What if tomorrow a bomb goes off in the middle east killing 47 people?

There have been plenty of bombs going off in the middle east killing a lot more than 47 people over the decades.

For most 2012 people, it has to be a global changing event. That means something that changes the Earth in some drastic way, be it a disaster (crustal pole shift, mega quakes splitting whole continents, mile high tsunamis, large asteroid causing a ELE, and yes, even some magical planet appearing from no where to mess with the Earth's orbit).
Or it has to be Global in that everyone on Earth suddenly realizes we are not alone (Aliens making first contact, aliens enslaving the human race, Aliens eating the human race......sorry, had to add that one......).
Or it has to be Global in that people's outlook on life changes (suddenly everyone "awakens" and becomes some form of higher being both physically and consciously).
Or it has to be a catastrophic Global man made thing (WW3 happening, and no, one bomb in the middle east isn't going to start that, economic collapse that is complete and happens everywhere at once, etc).

Originally posted by sheeplearepeople

So telling the truth even about obviously false ideas can make people believe more in these lunatic ideas.

reply to post by stereologist

 

This is compounded by the paranoid assertion that absolutely all media and academia is controlled by the ethereal "powers that be"

I realize this is an unpopular position to take on this site, but finding the truth involves looking at each piece of evidence critically, and not brushing everything aside out of spite and fear because it's associated with something that may be in the control of some mysterious organization.

I've seen a bunch of educated idiots. In my profession I have seen them way too many times in the schools that crank out confident people with large egos which are totally useless in the real world. But I'm not here to argue academia. I'm here to argue the media. Because "I" have seen first hand it is controlled. I don't find any interest in the vast majority of material on this site. Much I cannot say is true or not. But the media, it is very much controlled. I would wager the vast majority of peoples lives and their truths are controlled. Even their conspiracies. You'd have to be blind not to notice it.

I care not one flying flip if you believe me or not. I've also seen a ufo over me in the middle of day that was WAY to close to be lens flare. Honestly, your belief in a sterile world scares me.

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by stereologist

 

I think the OP is a load of Craptacular Malarkey.

Can I get an Amen?

Yes... yes you can.

AMEN!

The only planet but it is a planet-dwarf to come closer is Sedna. It has highly eccentric orbit and is expected to be at its closest point this century exactly - in around 2070 to my memories. When at its furtherst point, it is about 3 times the distance from the Sun to Pluto.

www.darkstar1.co.uk...

Some conspiracies consider Sedna to be Nibiru but claim that it is too small since Nibiru the imaginary planet is said to be large.

There are several anomalous aspects to this discovery, not least of which is Sedna's orbit. It is simply not behaving as it should, at least according to the model of the solar system used by astronomers. To have such an elliptical orbit it would have to have been pulled out of an ancient circular orbit by some other, massive object

Truth is we do not know what may be lying beyond the Oort Cloud but again nothing from space suggests to happen any time soon, not this year or another.

If there is another Star, it is so distant that I do not see it affect us.

This was my thread about events surrounding 2012 and got by the few that responded. I think we are going to see some unusual events A psychic Nun in Russias response to Dec 21