The perils of debunking the hoax of 2012

reply to post by Urantia1111

so... nothing is true. got it. my question then would be: what the hell are you even doing here? why not just watch your local news and read TIME magazine? are you just here to antagonize and call people stupid and crazy? i mean of course i realize how cool it makes you to disbelieve and debunk anything out of the ordinary, but do you sincerely have nothing better to do?

Please reread the article. It does not state that nothing is true. The article is about how people in general think. It is about how we makes mistakes and sometimes, actually fairly often, grab onto a wrong idea and go with it.

This is definitely NOT about calling people stupid. This is exploring why many notions about 2012 that seem so obviously false to myself and others continue to persist. This is all about understanding how humans, me included - I'm not an alien, think.

reply to post by FaceLikeTheSun

But on the other hand, is there something to all the ancient writings pointing to 2012? Perhaps.

Another great example of these false ideas that people have grabbed onto. There is only 1 reference to 2012 and that is a single inscription on a single monument from the Maya.

Originally posted by Newagekid2012

You sir are in for a suprise!

Why, did you bake him cookies? Chocolate chip or oatmeal?

Originally posted by NTellect
A big surprise indeed

OMG, OMG, Chocolate chip and Oatmeal? Im jealous.

reply to post by stereologist


There are going to weather events yes,related to coming ice age .The pole shift confirmed that.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
why dont you let a short amount of time debunk this theory for you/..... until then.,, whats the point in trying?

That is the problem, it will never be debunked. There was a post a while back where someone attempted to use logic to show that NOTHING happening in 2012 is PROOF the prophecy was real. Its mind boggling.

reply to post by stereologist

It seems interesting how such obvious hoaxes such as the following have what seems to be a never ending appeal.

Obvious hoaxes? Speculation about when events that have happened in the past might happened again. Is not a hoax. It's called disaster preparedness and is taught by all intelligent societies.

1.Imaginary planets that will rip the guts out of the Earth
2.Ancient and modern prophecies
3.Unbelievable geological events
4.Weather that will raise the dead

1. Earth has been struck before and it caused an extinction level event. Perhaps many many times. Even the most esteemed astrologers acknowledge the possibility of rogue planets, comets or an asteroid striking the Earth sometime in the future. This is not imaginary. It is a fact. Just because we don't when it will happen doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

2. Those that forget their past are doomed to repeat it.

3. Polar shifts, great floods, earthquakes and volcanoes have all happened in the past. What makes you think they won't happen again?

4.Raise the dead is a metaphor. I think you're the one who is taking things too literally.

The ideas and the evidence are preposterous and weak or faked respectively.

Not any more preposterous than the evidence or theories you provided in this thread. In fact there is a lot more evidence to support ELE's than your theory. Your theory is riddled with ignorance.

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus


1. Aside from being stocked to deal with any number of catastrophes, Nibiru is a hoax, and has never struck Earth before.
Strike 1.
2. Wow sounds very enlightening. Sooo what happened in the past we will be doomed to repeat if we dont listen to hoax prophecies?
Strike 2.
3. What makes you think they will happen in 2012? What makes you think the predictions about them are accurate? Of course they will happen if you wait around long enough, that does not lend any credence to hoax prophecies.
Strike 3.
4. Prove that weather that would wake the dead will happen, metaphor or not.
Youre out.

His theory actually has scientific backing to it, and has been demonstrated in this very thread.

reply to post by ludwigvonmises003

There are going to weather events yes,related to coming ice age .The pole shift confirmed that.

By pole shift I am assuming you mean an event as described by Hancock, who I believe coined the term.

So how does a pole shift cause an ice age. Wouldn't a large enough pole shift move the Arctic ocean into a position where it was more temperate and thus eliminate this ocean that has limited circulation with other warmer oceans?

HA thank you Op for this thread, it shows just how gullible and blind people are to follow a certified nutcase. I have noticed one constant in all this nonsense, everything points back to Zetatalk in the end... Most of the sites cited as evidence point back to Zetatalk, or a NING site that is run by ... hold on wait for it..... Zetatalk...

hmmmm cult maybe?

reply to post by Urantia1111

what the hell are you even doing here?

Actually, let me ask you. If you aren't here to prove anything, which involves debates with people like the OP, what exactly are you here for? To slap each other on the back for being "in the know". To feel special because you have some knowledge of some future event that the rest of us don't?

Because I am here for answers, and with that, I need to cut out the fat and crap to get to the kernel or truth in there.

If your theory is correct, it will stand up to scrutiny. If you won't allow it to be scrutinized, you already know it's bunk.

See, you all apparently can't grasp something.

Those of us that "debunk" do it so we can remove the "bunk" from the theory and concentrate on something worth our time.

Nibiru was made up by a guy who read into ancient texts what he wanted to see
Mayan 2012 was made up by a guy, to sell a book, based on, well, nothing, he just fabricated it, the Mayans made no end of the world prophecy, it's a calendar.

But see, if enough people on enough different websites say it's true, then it's true.

Repetition does work. The nazi propaganda masters new this, the communists know this, and hell, even the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama white houses knew this.

I'd hazard a guess that, if quizzed, the OP would be more knowledgeable on the topics you guys are complaining he debunks, than you are. Because to properly analyze something, you have to look at all the angles, not just the ones that fit your little theory.

Don't feel bad for falling for it. When I heard about some of these things, I started researching, just like 9/11. With 9/11 I became a "truther" or whatever you want to slurr me with. In regards to 2012 and the rest, well, not a believer at all

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus

Obvious hoaxes? Speculation about when events that have happened in the past might happened again. Is not a hoax. It's called disaster preparedness and is taught by all intelligent societies.

It's fine to prepare for things that do happen. Why prepare for hoaxes - obvious hoaxes? The problem is that hoaxes appear to be strongly reinforced in some part of the population when the truth is brought forward.

Consider the issue of an unknown planet passing close to Earth. Impacts are not the issue. If a planet sized object hit the Earth it would destroy the entire Earth as we know it today. Everything would die. A new planet would form out of the debris. Impacts from smaller objects does and has happened. Those impacts do not indicate the existence of an unknown planet.

The evidence is very strong against an unknown planet the enters the orbits of the known planets. It can be shown using celestial mechanics no such planet could have a stable orbit. Whole sky surveys show nothing. A great example is the 1983 Washington Post article discussing the IRAS data. Although the article mentions that a number of objects were detected in the IRAS data that could not be identified people think that it refers to definite proof that NASA detected a new planet in the solar system. Even when openly discussed some people refuse to read the entire article and see only a small portion of 1 sentence. They force themselves to misrepresent what is written.

Another issue is ancient and modern prophecies. Most of them are made up or completely altered. One I have not seen in a while is the Cherokee prophecy which if I recall correctly comes after 1812. It is often described as ancient. The nature of the prophecy are also completely wrong. Yet, people tie the hoax version into 2012.

Then there are the geological events. Pole shifts as described by Hancock have never happened. TPWs are slow and span millions of years. The best candidate is from 800Ma. Yet people think pole shifts have happened within the last 10,000 years. Floods happen every year. Big catastrophic floods happen all of the time. They are local events causing massive disruption in that local area. There have been no continent sized or global floods.

Quakes and volcanoes are not changing in their rates of occurrence. That is not what people believe. Why? I believe it is related to what the article discusses.

Not any more preposterous than the evidence or theories you provided in this thread. In fact there is a lot more evidence to support ELE's than your theory. Your theory is riddled with ignorance.

It's not a theory. If by this word you meant a wild eyed guess, the the answer is still no. What is being discussed is why such flawed ideas as the 2012 hoaxes have taken on such strong appeal to some people. It seems that it is just a part of the way humans behave.

reply to post by stereologist

What is being discussed is why such flawed ideas as the 2012 hoaxes have taken on such strong appeal to some people. It seems that it is just a part of the way humans behave.

Part of it, I think, is the connected "clique" they become part of, truthers, 2012ers, etc, they find a group of other believers and they feel special, because the rest of us are sheep.

and boy, they sure love reminding us that because we don't think exactly like them we are sheep. Indeed.

If you want to be one of the non-conformists you must first:
dress like us
act like us
listen to the same music as us
have the same opinions as us


It's sad really, it's impossible to have a debate here anymore, it really is rare. The second you dare to bring facts, reason, or critical thinking into some of those threads, bam, disinfoagent. If I got 10 cents for everytime someone called me that here and elsewhere I could probably quit my job.

But these things have always existed, I think they are more prevalent with the digital age, before google and the internet you'd have to look hard to find other believers, now, it's a simple search away.

A great example of how this stuff takes hold is in a documentary called "Resurrect Dead", it might have been mentioned on ATS before.

It is about the "Toynbee Idea" tiles that were being discovered in different cities in the US and down into south america. This guy starts noticing them and becomes obsessed with them, and this is taking place just as the internet is really taking off, and in an random net search he came across a group of people also following this "conspiracy" or mystery.

It has nothing to do with anything really, but watching the obsession take hold because this guy felt he was on the inside of some deep mystery, is a perfect example of how these hoaxes take hold.

And now it's so easy to make a few youtube videos and what not to backup your theory, you can even site sources that have nothing to do with anything, because as ATS is a clear example of, no one actually checks the sources.

Think about this folks...

The media is controlled and can't be trusted...

Yet [email protected] CAN be trusted?

Originally posted by tucker81


Correction, 19. By the way, when does your shift end?

Do you have any idea how INCREDIBLY ignorant and immature you sound when you say things like that? You may think you are being clever, or original, or cute, but your not. You're being tired, and following a trend doing exactly what hundreds of other blind followers do when they are unable to come up with anything else. It's the same thing as a stupid little kid on the playground sticking his fingers in his ears and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU"

Just because someone doesn't buy your unoriginal and highly unlikely theories doesn't make them a paid disinfo agent, shill, or a troll. Such accusations are the hallmark of someone incapable of critical, independent thinking. You latch onto some videos made by new-agers or conspiracy theorists and take them as gospel, and anyone that disagrees with you isn't met with a well thought out and researched rebuttal, but instead silly childish accusations of being a disinfo agent.

Delusions of grandeur might play into that someway as well. Either that you are so important the government feels the need to employ people to discredit you, or that you have somehow come upon some esoteric and awe inspiring truth that the normal plebs aren't privy to.

Either way, you do yourself a great disservice with such posts. You loose all credibility when your only response is a pre-programmed sheep like mewing of "TROLL!" "SHILL!" "DISINFO AGENT!"

I see you are new here so I apologize for venting on you based on this issue, when you really haven't been here long enough to take part in such activities for any length of time, but if your few posts so far are any representation of what you plan to bring to ATS, then my remarks are quite fitting as your current posts resemble all to well the typical unquestioning "follower" class of conspiracy theorists that dwell here on ATS.

You can disagree with people, and people can disagree with you, but please frame such disagreements with intelligent discussion and debate, not silly name calling.

As far as 2012 is concerned I've yet to see anything that points to anything of great importance or change happening in 2012. I'm open to the idea of such things happening, but wouldn't personally bet a single dollar on it.

Don't worry once 2012 passes they'll claim the dates are wrong and it's actually 2013,14,15+ and within those years we'll have plenty end of the world scares.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


I don't think many of the so-called believers even truly believe. They simply want to believe. I've asked the question in the past why people support 2012 theories. The most resounding answer was because they see it as the only way to fix the world. They didn't spout facts or attempt to use logic. They support it because the alternative is just so bleak to them.

ATS has become, to many on here, an alternate reality game. It's escapism pure and simple. When they're on here they're able to see reality as logical and ordered. As such they are comforted because that means they should be able to change the world through predictable means. Take for instance how many natural disasters are blamed on the machinations of some government or secret cabal. This reflects the mindset of people when they're one here. They don't want to admit that for the most part reality is chaotic and random. This is why they continue to hold on to these theories long after they have been debunked. If they accept that their pet theory is wrong then they have to start viewing reality the way it actually is and they lose the control they thought they had over it.

Whether people want to admit it, or are even conscious of it, ATS is just another form of entertainment. It lets people forget about their day at work and for a few hours live in a world where everything makes sense. That's not to say there aren't legitimate theories presented on here but they are few and far between.

The article had thisparagraph at the bottom of the first page.

The research is painting a broad new understanding of how the mind works. Contrary to the conventional notion that people absorb information in a deliberate manner, the studies show that the brain uses subconscious "rules of thumb" that can bias it into thinking that false information is true. Clever manipulators can take advantage of this tendency.

I believe that is what fringe authors capitalize on. People like Wilcock and Hancock and Drunvalo and Crowthers and others are able to manipulate people by beguiling them into believing false information. That sets these people apart from others since they tend to be the sole source of a set of particular falsehoods. So if you are led to believe it is time to kill your pets and you do it and you believe it is the right thing to do then you end up going back to that same person to get more of the lies you incorrectly believe are truths.

It becomes a sad case of feeding on a stream of lies.

I think at this point the most rational thing to do is wait until the 21st of December, then we'll see if anything happens. Why are so many people starting to put so much effort into debunking 2012 theories when all we need to do is wait a few more months until the predicted date and see what happens. I'm on the fence to be honest, I give it a 50/50 chance of something huge happening. But I'm not about to claim nothing will happen because I'll look pretty damn stupid if something does happen. Lets just shut our mouths and have some patience for once... we will know once and for all in due time.

and you cared so much to make a thread about it? I know there is something to this time period, im the proof of that. but does that mean i'm confident there is a niburi? No, actually i doubt it's existence but who knows? Ancient prophecies? Ah yeh maybe? but why not? The ancients were more advanced then you materialist will give them credit for. But i will give you that there prophecies were somewhat vague. But for the most part they predicted the end of an age. And that is evident isn't it? Things are falling apart all around us, but maybe you're too complacent to see that? Geological events? Of course there have been geological events. You're lying to yourself there bud. The dead rising up? Well that can mean more than just there physical bodies come back out the ground in zombie mode no? As far as im concerned the dead aren't dead. Those still disembodied are already all around us. I and multiple other people have witnessed ghost, even at the same time. I think it's more plausible that they will come into perception for the "common" man than them punching their way out their caskets. But i know what its like to be a sceptic, theres nothing wrong with it as long as it isn't done out of attachment to the materialist belief system. You aren't willing to let that go are you?

reply to post by stereologist



s+f

We are on a conspiracy site common sense and an understanding of basic science are not required for membership, which is a shame

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The reason we are so insistent on debunking these theories is because the people that support them don't think of the consequences. We have already had one person kill themselves in connection to 2012 theories. We have had countless others contemplating suicide because of them. Then we also have tons of people expecting 2012 to magically fix everything so they're just sitting around doing nothing to better themselves or the world. This is all because some charlatans decided to make some money by telling lies. The basis for all 2012 theories is nonexistent. As a result the claims made about it are false. Could something big happen this year? Sure. Just like something big happens every year. However, any events that occur this year are not connected to prophecies or ancient knowledge. I say this because there are no prophecies and there is no ancient knowledge connected to 2012. We have people potentially irrevocably altering their lives because of modern fairy tales told by snake oil salesmen. That is why I, and I believe others, work so hard to dispel the nonsense that are 2012 theories.