Fasting, and my irrefultable results.

reply to post by imagineering


Wouldn't the weight loss alone account for all that? Seems like it could?

I'm not opposed to the idea, but anything can be carried to far. As long as it does not reach the level of an obsession and destructive weight loss like Anorexia. Anorexia kills people who think they are healthy.

Why so defensive? Your experience with it may be different than others. It might be dangerous to another. That's why I hate seeing medical advice coming from unqualified people. Even though your MD may be overweight, does not mean he's completely wrong. If a fat man tells you not to eat five lbs of sugar at one sitting as it's bad for you, are they wrong because they are fat?

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by knightsofcydonia

 

Who in their right mind would post photos of themselves like that for total strangers? I know I wouldn't. You guys are like a wake of buzzards. You'd tear the poor sod to pieces.

DON'T DO IT.

I guess we'll never know...

reply to post by CynicalDrivel

You only break down muscle when your body won't release your fat stores

.

Well...

Don't forget about glucose. We can't store very much of it. Glycogen stores in the liver and muscles are rather limited.

Given the demand of glucose by the brain alone (~130g), most people would be glycogen depleted in probably less than a day. Upon depletion, gluconeogenesis is needed to generate glucose from non carbohydrate sources. Amino acids from muscle, along with glycerol and lactate, provide the substrate for the process. The breakdown of muscle for gluconeogenesis is dependent upon glycogen stores, not lypolysis.

Fasting for a while will cause the release of the fat stores.

Here's the real kicker. Hyperinsulinemia, or high blood levels of insulin, will inhibit lypolysis... thereby disallowing fat to breakdown in the fat cell and enter the bloodstream. This is important because the other main substrate for gluconeogenesis is Glycerol, which is a molecule that holds triGLYCERides together. Without access to fat stores, glycerol triglycerides can be broken down to retrieve the glycerol needed for gluconeogenesis; therefore, the inhibition of lypolisis will effectively cause the break down of muscle for amino acids in individuals fasting longer than a day IF they are type 2 diabetic, obese or hyperinsulinemic.

Eventually, though, fasting insulin levels will drop and lypolysis will ensue given the fast lasts long enough. So I guess you're kinda right...

It's just not a simple yes or no answer.

You guys debating about breaking down muscle vs. fat when fasting listen up.

Yes, the body can more readily steal from muscle tissue than fat. For a short-term over-exertion event, it will probably steal from the muscle tissue. The by-product of that is going to be quick results, available creatine, available energy, etc. BUT, this is only a very short-term emergency response, the body also begins mobilizing transport to begin metabolizing fat. Your body isn't going to eat up all the muscle before it begins eating the fat, it just takes an extra few minutes to start the fat metabolizing process.

If someone is fasting, sure for the first little bit of the fast the body will break down muscle, just like it does for the first few minutes of a hard workout. BUT, it won't take long for the body to create a very efficient method of breaking down fat stores, and if you are continually exercising the muscle fiber through daily activities or workouts, then the body is going to protect that necessary fiber and concentrate more on the fat.

Another thing that happens with intense exercise or fasting is breakdown of bone material. Calcium and Phosphorus are useful in many blood chemistry, nerve signals, and metabolic processes as well. Low Calcium in the bloodstream can have dastardly effects, so the body steals calcium from the bones when it is needed and stores it back there when it is in excess.

These are silly arguments to be having. AS long as you are not starving yourself to death there is no problem with fasting.

Keep in mind there is a HUGE difference between Fasting and Anorexia or Bulemia. There is another on-going thread at this very moment where the person is losing hair and finger nails. THAT is unhealthy!

Anyone wondering why they are feeling weak, getting headaches, feeling nauseated etc shortly after starting a fast or detox... this is normal! Your body is detoxifying itself by flushing the toxins back into your bloodstream and then carrying it to your bladder and bowels to be excreted. This is why its so important to eat lots of fiber and/or lots of water... to flush these toxins out. Otherwise they will simply get reabsorbed into your body. When these toxins are flushing out of your cells into your bloodstream, it is a huge shock to your system, and you may feel very ill. This is your body healing. Give it a couple of days, drink lots of water, and stay positive! Hope this helps some people understand that they arent doing anything wrong, and that its normal.

reply to post by imagineering


I'm pleased to hear how it went for you.

I am a diabetic and if I don't eat regularly, I suffer hypoglycemia and loose consciousness.

You are lucky to be so well.

Originally posted by imagineering
I was the biggest skeptic when it came to the subject of fasting, I believed main stream medical opinion when it came to food consumption and its proper place in our lives. Three meals a day, eating often will assist your health, etc etc. My very own doctor demonized the notion of refraining from food, he was fat by the way.
I just recently became a faster and the health benefits are undeniable, even proven via the results of my recent physicals in which are documented.
Ill be straight with all of you. Here what fasting has done for me, without all the spiritual jargon and no BS.
1. I lost 50lbs.
2. The "fog" that consumed my mind went away, I got off my anxiety medication.
3. I feel stronger, and I can run for over an hour, jogging pace.
4. My over all health improved in all respects.
5. No more high blood pressure medicine.
6. I look great.
7. I sleep very very good, no more insomnia or waking up 50 times during the night.
8. My endurance in the bedroom is limitless it seems (wife loves this)
9. My mental powers, reasoning, problem solving, contemplation, emotional stability are 100 times better.

This is my result to water fasting.
I fast for two weeks, then eat right the other two weeks.
This is my results, I don't care about all the arguments concerning fasting.
The fact is, it has worked wonders for me!! Period.

My reason for posting this is, many issues we go through medically may be able to be resolved via proper fasting.

edit on 14-6-2012 by imagineering because: (no reason given)

Absolutely, humans were never intended to eat as often or as much as we do.

When we lived in the wild, we would go days without eating and then gorge ourselves.

Studies show that eating the same amount of food in a one hour period as opposed to throughout the day gives all of the health benefits of a 30% reduction in caloric intake and reduced aging and increased life expectancy of up to 70%.

Jaden

Muslims fast on Ramadan, God always knows the science behind it even if we have not discovered it.

reply to post by imagineering


How many times did you have to fast to loose the 50lbs?

reply to post by imagineering


everyone is different.

what makes one person healthy could make another person extremely sick.


we are pretty much aliens to each other, with a few tiny similarities that make us fall under the category of "human"

Originally posted by Gridrebel
So what was your fasting regime? I fasted for a 17 day period when I was younger and lost two pounds. However, I did drop four sizes. Still haven't figured that one out.

Really, hahah, judging by your avatar, fasting works and is not for you.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Absolute truth.
I have never had the sensation of "hunger" (I also do not have circadian rythms) so it is easy for me to fast, too easy.
As a young man I was involved in Martial Arts, I had no weight problems, but my master cautioned me to always put in protein so that I would not be burning muscle.
One of the best foods to use in this way is Coconut Butter.
Coconut Butter digests easily, keeps you from having nutrition related problems, and tastes lousy.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by rwfresh

 

It's not about calories. Calories are part of the misunderstanding of what food is. Vitamins are up there too. That's like saying that humans are dental enamel and ear wax.

Food is medicine. When you take medicines for reasons other than what they are meant to heal, you will most definitely come out with only bad results. Look around you. Who do you know who is not sick in any way?

Calorie counting will only lead to obsession and anxiety. That's the wrong direction entirely.

Not wrong for fat people. It is about calories if you have a high bf and want to reduce it. Plain and simple. The most proven diet/fitness related method for increasing life expectancy is calorie reduction. Look it up. Proven and demonstrated time and time again.

Look around you. Are the sick people primarily high body fat or low? Is lack of vitamins causing their high body fat? show me a reference. I can cite many that demonstrate calorie reduced diet directly increasing life expectancy.

And i am not and never said that micro-nutrients are not important. they are. But treating obesity with micro-nutrients only is akin to fixing an engine with rags and soap. Don't complicate it. It's not scary and dangerous for an overweight person to get an accurate look at how much they eat. It's a healthy and extremely obvious, elementary lesson in basic health. Most need to start with the basics because if they follow the latest magic micro-nutrient or fad diet they will easily become frustrated and nothing will change.

Well done, Op.. MSM hates you because you are not buying their products..

reply to post by rwfresh:

All good information, and not shaded by ulterior motives.
If an obese person want's to lose a fast 20 lbs in one month...quit drinking soda pop.
Pop tastes good but it is a sneaky enemy, not only refreshing you, it smuggles in more sodium to make you drink more!
You'll also find you were retaining a lot more water when you drank pop.
An interesting aside, elderly people benefit from being a little overweight, my doctor says it gives them strength to outlive a cold or flu bug.
I love my doctor, she was just a kid when I found her, fresh out of Med School.
She knows if the situation permits it she is the only person I want beside me when I escape.
She even knows my last words, even if I'm unable to speak...my last words?
"I've been waiting for this moment all my life."

reply to post by Masterjaden


"Studies show that eating the same amount of food in a one hour period as opposed to throughout the day gives all of the health benefits of a 30% reduction in caloric intake and reduced aging and increased life expectancy of up to 70%.
"

Over what period of time would you receive the health benefit? Do you have a link to this study? I think you are misinterpreting it. 30% is a lot. If you eat the same amount of calories in a month i would think the frequency and the feeding window in which you ate it, would make very little difference. But would love to see a link.

OP, any tip for overcoming temptation? I'm not out of shape, but I want to test the waters with diets. I have a love affair with food, not sweets, I small meals constantly. I couldn't begin to pry myself away from food for so long, how did you do it?

Originally posted by rwfresh

Not wrong for fat people. It is about calories if you have a high bf and want to reduce it. Plain and simple. The most proven diet/fitness related method for increasing life expectancy is calorie reduction. Look it up. Proven and demonstrated time and time again.

Look around you. Are the sick people primarily high body fat or low? Is lack of vitamins causing their high body fat? show me a reference. I can cite many that demonstrate calorie reduced diet directly increasing life expectancy.

And i am not and never said that micro-nutrients are not important. they are. But treating obesity with micro-nutrients only is akin to fixing an engine with rags and soap. Don't complicate it. It's not scary and dangerous for an overweight person to get an accurate look at how much they eat. It's a healthy and extremely obvious, elementary lesson in basic health. Most need to start with the basics because if they follow the latest magic micro-nutrient or fad diet they will easily become frustrated and nothing will change.

It is wrong for everyone. Obesity is not necessarily the result of over-consumption of food but rather the body's reaction to that food. You cannot say that it's always about calories. There are so many things that can and do happen to a body over any period of time, long or short, that food quantities are almost irrelevant. What is important is how the boy receives that food and its ability to digest it further.

People must develop a relationship with their food and not view it as "fuel", in the first place. It is not. They must learn to eat when they are hungry in the amount their bodies require. A quick lunch will be your demise. Eating slowly - very slowly - is the right and only way to eat. Chewing your food slowly until it is a fine pulp before swallowing is the right way.

Lastly, there is no way any standard diet is going to be good for everyone because none of us are standard. Everyone is unique and their diets, particularly when we are all so out of balance, must be tailored to their needs and re-establishing that balance. Most people haven't known balance since they were infants. That's *most* people.

All you're doing is perpetuating the same bad info that has got us all in this situation.

reply to post by chr0naut


There is no reason you have to feel like that about your health. You can do a lot about diabetes, just not with a doctor's help. They don't understand the first thing about it.

You would benefit from fasting but even more you need to redesign your diet and eating habits from the ground up. Most of all though, you must change your mindset. If anything, that is what will either allow healing or maintain illness.

If you do want to change things, feel free to u2u me. But it will take the ability and will to change. Change is everything.

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
Got any before and after pics?

Not doubting you mate, but this sounds almost incredible.

Fasting every two 2 weeks is rather extreme, I have to admit.

Just by doing regular exersices, and watching your diet closely, you can achieve the same results.

vvv

Hello daar jy!

I have to disagree with your statement that regular exercise and watching your diet can achieve the same results.

The major difference, is that, regardless of what modern medicine and medical doctors will tell you, the long forgotten secret to excellent health is that our bodies have a built in mechanism to heal itself. We see this all the time with small wounds and scars, but somehow we have been brainwashed to believe that our bodies cannot heal dis-ease on the inside. This is a very old secret that is now coming into practice again, we can heal ourselves. And yes, it is the most UNBELIEVABLE thing about man himself. Also the saddest, that we have sculpted a life which totally defeats this wonder.

When we give our bodies nothing but clean water, fresh air, peaceful sleep and mild exercise during a fast, all that is happening is that you are giving your body the opportunity to heal itself. When an animal is sick, it fasts.

The headaches are caused by detoxing from caffeine and other acid forming substances. It is a great idea to give up coffee (at least) before a fast. It has been proven that all disease is caused by a disturbance in the acidity level within the body.

To maintain excellent health and well being after a fast, permanently, it is vital to keep your diet as close to what mother nature created for us. Directly off the tree and off the earth as far as possible within reason. What I mean is you don't have to have all the trees and pick it yourself, the supermarket is good enough. The less processed the food, the simpler, the better. The more raw food one eats, the better.

Of course, modern culture and the capitalistic tsunami in which we live, would hate for all of us to practice this amazing way of life. It would mean that:

1.) Big pharma would probably go bang very quickly because we will all be a picture of supreme health.

2.) Manufacturers of every packaged food product, every factory that produces one of the thousands of by-products and chemicals which has nothing to do with nourishment, and manufacturers of packaging and tins would all go bang.

3.) People will have a wonderful sense of self and others, peace and harmony will come from within, and their minds will think clearer and brighter. Now we all know that that would not suit their 'dumming down' agenda. Neither will it suit their control agenda.

4.) People will become more aware of nature and the amazing ability it has to feed the soul, not only the body. We will harmonize ourselves with nature and less people will fall for greed, selfish passion, materialistic desires, and egocentric bells and whistles that really has nothing to do with well being. Can they allow that?

5.) People will discover themselves to have such inner beauty and peace that plastic surgeons will have to find an income elsewhere. No matter your boob size, your wrinkles or your skew nose, the blessing that comes with a truly clean body includes accepting yourself fully, and seeing yourself for your spirit, your soul and not so much the vain body. The blessing of feeling fantastic to this extend, cannot be achieved in any surgery. Ever. It is a wonderful feeling that comes from within. Like a permanent high of the purest form.
Of course, lipo suction and that stuff will just fly out the window.
Can they have that?

6.) Man will be in harmony with himself, his brothers and sisters and nature to the extent that they will not be able to make us soldiers of war. We would see not sense in that. Would they be able to allow that?

There will be such a dramatic shift from pouring human energy out into vain pursuits to energy going within in uplifting the spirit, that the entire purpose of man will change. We will live to work on our spirits, and not to be slaves to materialism. People will actually die being better beings, taking with them all the spiritual growth that they have gathered. Because, my friends, I am sure you all agree that that is the only thing you take with you in the end.

If mankind can change this one thing, this deep trust and acceptance of the gifts of mother nature, he will become a most powerful, loving, truly creative, growing specie that our mother earth will carry proudly on her back!

It will be paradise in every sense.

So, dear Vreemde Vliende Voorwerp, my point is that as long as we exercise and eat what is propagated to us as 'healthy', we will not achieve this inner/outer wonder or this inner/outer state of greatness.

We often expect simplistic answers to life's problems, when we get simple ones, we get confused!

Go well, my friend!