Fasting, and my irrefultable results.

I just wanted to mention, that fasting is something that isn't for everyone and that you have to be very careful to ensure you do it properly and slowly, or else you risk body damage, metabolism issues and in rare cases, death. Don't just try it because you want to lose weight fast. While it can definitely help, eating a healthy diet and exercising after the fast is far more important for long term heath, although fasting can be a great kick start to any diet. With that said I fast at least once a year, on water only, for 1-2 weeks, depending. I'm just going to give a quick list of tips for fasting, but again, check with your doctor before doing it (even though many are against it, but many are not well informed on the process since their job is to prescribe medicine rather than let you heal yourself).

1. It helps to slowly bring your body into the fasting state. I would say for at least 1-2 weeks, reduce your food intake and limit it to only healthy foods (fruits & vegetables). This will make the fast more tolerable.

2. After the fast, it is vitally important to slowly get back into eating. The first day, the only thing you should eat is 1 orange, split up into 4-5 small portion to be eaten every 2-3 hours. Gradually increase your intake and variety of food. Proteins and grains should be among the last things reintroduced.

3. Distilled water is preferred but some spring water should be incorporated. I usually stick with spring water the whole time, just because distilled tastes like battery acid after a week of eating nothing. Distilled can also be dangerous to electrolyte levels.

4. Before fasting, you need to cut all of your dependencies on medication or drugs (be sure to ween off properly if you take anything that builds up in the system over time, but always check with your prescribing doctor first). Yes, that means, smoking, allergy pills, weed, coffee, all needs to go. Nothing should enter your body but water.

5. The idea that while fasting you burn muscle over fat is a myth. Now to clarify that, you DO burn muscle for the first 3 days, but it is not a significant loss. After 3 days or so your body goes into ketosis and burns primarily fat. Now this also depends on your body type. If you are a bodybuilder and you are pure muscle, then yes, it will probably burn more muscle than fat, and fasting is not a good idea. Same with if you are very skinny. Somebody who is a bit overweight will have a much easier time fasting, than somebody without much fat to burn. If you have a high metabolism, use caution.

6. Listen to your body. If you have pain that is abnormal and not a healing crisis, break the fast (and do it properly).

Originally posted by Lulzaroonie
I am seeing a lot of comments regarding not eating carbs after 7pm. My doctor (though I admit, they don't always know exactly what they're talking about regarding nutrition since they all tell you different things) recommended I eat no carbs after 5pm and switch my daytime meals, ie: main meal at lunch time, and a small lunch time meal at dinner time.

What is the difference between not eating carbs after 5pm rather than not eating after 7pm? The only thing I've noticed is that I usually go to bed hungry.

I'm got significant weight problems, for the last three years I've been under medical scrutiny, they've exhausted their testing to figure out what is causing it (along with other feminine issues I won't go into), and all they can tell me do to is "Try to lose weight".
In 6 months I've lost ONE KILO. You can lose a kilo overnight just through natural bodily processes, weight fluctuates by as much throughout the day as it is, so I may as well have lost no weight at all despite having joined a gym in December and being an active member 3/5 times a week and taking the doctors advice and rejigging my meals and not eating carbs after 5...

Doctors, as a rule, know nothing about nutrition as they get virtually no training in it and consider it the job of lowly nutritionists. If doctors actually knew anything about nutrition and our physiological design, they would not recommend eating from the 4 food groups (5 in Australia as they recognise the Junk Food group.) Meat, regardless of the source, is a killer, dairy products are killers, grains are not necessarily killers but are likely to seriously wound you. Everything that is healthy for you and supportive of life exists in the Fruit and Veg group.

Sleep is a critical function of the body and while asleep, the body carries out a number of important activities. If the body is still processing food in the stomach, it will interfere with your sleep and can result in some of the activities getting missed. Do this enough and your health will gradually deteriorate. A protein meal will remain in the stomach a minimum of about 4 hours, a starch meal about 3 hours and a raw fruit meal no more than 1 hour.

A meal that combines starches and proteins will remain in the stomach much longer and will eventually be dumped into the intestines partially digested at best. This is because starches require an alkaline medium for digestion and proteins require acid. Acids in the stomach will destroy the ptyalin enzyme required to digest the starch and undigested starches in the stomach will absorb the pepsin enzyme required to digest the proteins. Eventually the stomach gives up and dumps the contents into the intestine for it to do what it can which unfortunately, is limited to bacterial breakdown (putrefaction and fermentation!)

As this is how most westerners eat, the doctor was close to being correct in that finishing your meal by 5pm gives up to 7 hours for the stomach to empty before the serious sleep begins (about midnight regardless of how early you went to bed.)

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't know how to be more clear. For the lab personnel to get the results you recited, they first had to intentionally lesion the hypothalmus to make the rats produce higher rates of insulin. It was artificial.

Artificially induced perhaps in this case. But the abnormally high fasting insulin levels are seen without lesioning the VMH. Examples in humans are tumors in the VMH and insulin resistance induced hyperinsulinemia. I mean, there's a reason scientists lesion VMH. It's because problems in humans either damage or affect the VMH similarly and because certain conditions mimic the metabolic effects observed in these studies.

A very, very narrow subset of people may have pre-existing conditions that preclude them from fasting. So what? What does that have to do with the OP or the other 99% of people that might try it?

I'm not saying that people should avoid fasting. I'm not really sure why you think that. I simply responded to a post by a few members who clearly don't understand the metabolic happenstances when fasting; clearing up some misunderstandings, is all.

You are reciting risks that are basically non-existent. Following your logic, none of us should drive home tonight, because some narrow percentage of us will wreck and die.

Once again, I think short, intermittent fasting is healthy.

The reason I referenced the VMH studies was to prove a point. This point is: Insulin inhibits lypolysis. And when fasting, hyperinsulinemic individuals will primarily burn glucose--from glycogen stores--until glycogen is depleted and then, because of the presence of insulin, fuel will come from the muscles.

You--at least I think it was you--were saying a survival mechanism kicks in and leaves lean tissue alone. You said fat is mobilized during a fast. But it's not that simple.

I'm sorry if correcting the physiological mistakes made in this thread are bothering you.

Originally posted by JohnJasper

High protein diets are a good way to damage your organs and bones/teeth. Excess protein must be eliminated from the body as well as the uric acid waste products from meat digestion, if meat is one of your sources of protein. Unless you're eating large green salads with every meal (and possibly even if your are,) you have a high probability of deplenishing your mineral reserves as they will be used to isolate these waste products.

Sure... that's true if you're eating white meat chicken as your only dietary source.

High protein diets are a major contributor to disease in western nations so not really a good idea. Instead of dieting, just start eating properly on raw, organic fruit, vegetables, nuts and seeds. Everything else is contrary to our physiology and will undermine our health to some degree.

And there's not much truth there. I mean, most Americans are consuming a high-carb/low-fat diet. Not many people are eating what you're calling a high-protein diet.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

You--at least I think it was you--were saying a survival mechanism kicks in and leaves lean tissue alone. You said fat is mobilized during a fast. But it's not that simple.

I'm sorry if correcting the physiological mistakes made in this thread are bothering you.

Not bothering me, but your post seemed to be cautioning people from fasting and also sounding very expert-like which would cause many people to give it special consideration and then ignore the first-hand experience of the OP. Your information is good, it just sounded a little too authoritative and I know people can be led astray easily by an authoritative sounding post.

As for the survival mechanism, I know it isn't that simple. It is amazingly complex, but again, your post made it seem as if you were warning people their muscle-tissue would be destroyed by long-term fasting. That is incorrect. The body always strives for equilibrium and always balances priorities and needs depending on stressors at the time. If someone fasted, and became bed-ridden at the same time, they would atrophy very quickly, but still retain some fat stores all the way to their death. However, if someone fasts intermittenly, while also providing normal exercise or resistance training, their muscle tissue will be largely unaffected, maybe even improved, while their fat stores will shrink quickly.

I didn't mean to pick a debate with you, but I worry when official sounding jargon enters a thread to seemingly push one side of an argument. People buy into that stuff too quickly and sometimes dismiss the whole OP, even though the OP's story is just as pertinent and accurate, and it was their thread to begin with.

Originally posted by Isabelx
I love this thread, S&F!

I do have one question for you, if you will; at anytime during your fasting period, have you ever been nauseated and/or vomiting?

A few months ago, I fasted for 3 days.. and on the 3rd day, I woke up vomiting repeatedly. I could barely get out of bed, that's how terrible the nausea was.. this scared me off of longer-term fasting until I can feel confident enough to handle this should it arise again (though, I still do fast 24 hours at least once per week).

I haven't seen many others stating that they felt this way.. only energetic and stronger instead.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Isabelx because: (no reason given)

Isabelx,

Contrary to other replies on this subject, you were most likely experiencing strong detoxification. It was pretty severe but not that uncommon and it should stand as a sign that you need to go a bit easier on yourself. My fasts have always been easy in that respect but I had several months of a fairly healthy diet (large green salads for evening meal, fruit meals for breakfast and sometimes lunch while other times, lunch would be salad and either baked pots or nuts) as well as frequent "normal" meals before I did my first 3 day fast. I was never big on medicines so had very little build up in that department. By the time I did my first long fast of 21 days (a year later,) I'd pretty much accomplished the major detox and was getting down to fine tuning.

You and anyone else who is keen to make serious improvements to your health should consider researching Natural Hygiene and getting involved with the many forums that help health seekers transition to this health science.

reply to post by Furbs


Medical science is the reason we're all so sick. Medical science doesn't look at the person as a whole. They look at the person as an organic machine. Our emotional state, to them, has no legitimate effect on our physical state. We are not ill unless we have something they can see and have some medicine to sell us.

Medical science must either change their limited scope or they will find themselves out of work soon enough. To many of us, they are already irrelevant. In my case, that's been true for years.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Furbs

 

Medical science is the reason we're all so sick. Medical science doesn't look at the person as a whole. They look at the person as an organic machine. Our emotional state, to them, has no legitimate effect on our physical state. We are not ill unless we have something they can see and have some medicine to sell us.

Medical science must either change their limited scope or they will find themselves out of work soon enough. To many of us, they are already irrelevant. In my case, that's been true for years.

I know perfectly how you feel. All they would do for me is medicate, I wanted and light at the end of the tunnel, but nope. Instead put me on medication and send me packing! Very sad, they lack the true knowledge we all certainly need!

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


I'm not pushing any side of the argument. I think fasting is good for you. As far as longevity is concerned, I think it probably helps. But the science, so far, says we end up compensating for calories not consumed...which would make the caloric deficit nonexistent, thereby eliminating any possible increase in lifespan.

However, if someone fasts intermittenly, while also providing normal exercise or resistance training, their muscle tissue will be largely unaffected, maybe even improved, while their fat stores will shrink quickly.

Absolutely. Won't argue with that. And a lot of that has to do with lower fasting insulin and a decrease in insulin resistance.

I didn't mean to pick a debate with you, but I worry when official sounding jargon enters a thread to seemingly push one side of an argument. People buy into that stuff too quickly and sometimes dismiss the whole OP, even though the OP's story is just as pertinent and accurate, and it was their thread to begin with.

Understandable. But I can't just sit back and watch as people inaccurately try to describe the processes that are happening in one's body. Whether it sounds authoritative or official or whatever, misinformation and misunderstandings should be corrected and not perpetuated.

Originally posted by imagineering

Originally posted by starsyren
reply to post by imagineering

 

Congrats on finding a method that worked for you, and not buying into all the hype. I, too, take anxiety meds on top of antidepressants. I just chalked it up "being awake" in a society full of sleepers....the meds help me function in a society I don't feel apart of...

How long did it take you to lose the 50lbs and experience all those benefits? How many 2wk on/2wk off cycles?

I started April 12th 2012 on my two week cycles. I started the fast that week, and did a few test runs before that of 5 days. The mental effects where experienced during my 5 day test runs, and I became a believer in that realm considering mental health. Into the 2nd week of my fast the fat started to melt off big time. So the results came quickly,My jogging time would get longer each time I ran, sometimes it feels like I can run forever.

I was glad to read in a later post that this is only a temporary measure for you. The 2 week on/ 2 week off program is probably relying quite a bit on your reserves which will eventually run out leading to deficiencies especially considering the amount of exercise you're doing. Also, by the 10th day of fasting, your digestive system has shut down and must be gradually re-awakened otherwise you can overload the system with food that it cannot digest which will instead become toxic in your system. Starch items eaten too soon can actually glue up your digestive tract leading to serious complications.

For those who cannot accept the evidence available on all fasting related websites as well as my own 21 day water-only fast completed in April this year without me once dying or falling ill much less having to consume anything besides water the whole time, please note this article as posted on the UK Pubmed Central site Fasting: The History, Pathophysiology and Complications. (or download full text pdf)

Here they document the physiology of the fasting body and give evidence to the safety and efficacy of the fast for weight reduction purposes (but, not surprisingly, completely overlooking its remedial benefits!)

Originally posted by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep
Got any before and after pics?

Not doubting you mate, but this sounds almost incredible.

Fasting every two 2 weeks is rather extreme, I have to admit.

Just by doing regular exersices, and watching your diet closely, you can achieve the same results.

vvv

It's not just about fitness and weight loss. Fasting burns any diseased tissue as fuel, and allows the organs to detox and rest. Many people say it's cured them of serious illnesses. And no, it's not medically proven, but it never will be because there's no money in it for the medical industry.

reply to post by JohnJasper


Do you think one can fast, and also get stronger and in better cardiovascular shape at the same time, or should the exercise be very limited during the fast?

reply to post by getreadyalready


I know you weren't addressing me in this question, but it's a little confusing. Are you talking about fasting intermittently or do you mean during an extended fast?

And when you refer to cardiovascular in this case, are you referring to improving cardiovascular function/health or do you mean "cardio".

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I know you weren't addressing me in this question, but it's a little confusing. Are you talking about fasting intermittently or do you mean during an extended fast?

And when you refer to cardiovascular in this case, are you referring to improving cardiovascular function/health or do you mean "cardio".

I'm training to try my first UFC fight by age 40. (38 now) I've been eating cleaner and working out moderately. I've lost 25 lbs and gotten quite a bit stronger, and my cardio is decent but not nearly on par with what it was 10 years ago when I ran marathons.

If I decided to experiment with a week long fast, should I alter my workout during the fast? Would I lose significant strength if I did?

What I am doing is working, and it is about time to step up the intensity of my resistance training and cardio. I don't feel like it is a good idea to restrict my calories and protein at the same time as stepping up the intensity of my workout. It sounds counter-productive, but I'm wondering what the folks that have fasted would say? They may not have any intense training experience, so their opinion may not be sufficient, but they do have the fasting experience and they know how they felt physically.

Since you chimed in, what do you think? I want to try a fast, but I don't want to delay my workout.

If I were a government agent attempting to weaken the conspiracy theorists at a grassroots level, this is the kind of thread I would post.

I am not saying that's what's going on here. But it's worth a thought, isn't it? This is a conspiracy website after all

reply to post by getreadyalready


You'll lose strength and muscle. But if you're progressing smoothly and consistently, I think you'll likely regain pretty quickly.

But I would not be working out. Just take a break and take things easily. If you do any strenuous activity, you may become lethargic and tired. Working out will definitely increase muscle atrophy, and without supplying the muscle with glucose and nutrients (protein, etc.), you won't recover.

Edit to addIf it helps, I have trained for specific events (not MMA) that required strenuous routines. Though I don't like going around saying it, I'm also a personal trainer. I try not to tell that because most trainers don't know sh*t about nutrition/biochemistry. It's a pretty sad thing to hear, honestly. Anyway, I have seen athletes fast and the results are a decrease in performance on anything longer than a 24hr fast.)

Originally posted by JohnJasper Meat, regardless of the source, is a killer, dairy products are killers, grains are not necessarily killers but are likely to seriously wound you. Everything that is healthy for you and supportive of life exists in the Fruit and Veg group.

Hi John, can you give me some links about how all meat is a killer please? Reason I ask is I was a land vegetarian ie only ate fish as an animal protein for years, but recently switched back to eating land meat as I started doing the paleo diet. The paleo diet makes a whole heck of a lot of sense to me, as does fasting for that matter, as thinking about human history the paleo way of eating was how we survived. Mixed in with a fast every once and a while and bam, us humans are back to being who we have been for 99.5 % of our existence. I think that eating hormone soaked, medicated meat is a no brainier to avoid, but grass fed, non medicated meat which I am consuming I have a hard time thinking that is a killer.

Thanks for your thoughts on this

Well I saw this thread and due to my current condition I felt it was important that I comment. Now I am 5' 11" maybe 6' and I weigh 130-135lbs. I'm pretty underweight for my height. I understand that a big problem in America is obesity and all the impacts that has on your health.

When I saw this thread, I felt relieved that people have actually stumbled across the answer to obesity. Eat less food, that simple. Americans need to realize that hunger is a larger problemb in the world than obesity. All the food that is wasted on being obese is what could be reserved for those struggling with hunger. I know its seems cliche, but the negative impacts of having to little food, far outweigh the problembs associated with to much. At least as far as immediate and damaging effects go.

Now just with my minor lack of food I experience: weak and aching muscles, exhaustion, grogginess, an even deeper fog that Im sure obese people experience, serious stomach pains, and it even seems to have an effect on my sinusis. Now the really strange thing that happens is that occasionally my muscles will lock up, and temporarly seize and I will have to fight to resist it. Now I did some research and found this is ususally tied to a lack of Potassium and Protein in ones diet.

The point of this is to point out how important overcomming obesity is, so that we can then tackle starvation and hunger. Now all these things happen to me with just a little lack of food. Imagine the children starving accross the world. It must be hell, and its usually the First world countries that caused it. So it should be our duty to fix it as well.

Originally posted by imagineering
reply to post by Furbs

 

Disagree....
I cant deny the facts when it is perfectly clear and staring at me in the mirror. But thats ok, like I said I am not going to argue nor look at your links. Thanks though, all respect.

That's like saying..

This apple fell from the tree because invisible trolls pulled it to the ground. It's irrefutable! What's that? You have evidence to support a phenomenon called gravity? Sorry, I'm not going to argue or look at your evidence.

Your results aren't irrefutable, as they were refuted quite simply.

Correlation does not imply Causation, my friend.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Furbs

 

Medical science is the reason we're all so sick. Medical science doesn't look at the person as a whole. They look at the person as an organic machine. Our emotional state, to them, has no legitimate effect on our physical state. We are not ill unless we have something they can see and have some medicine to sell us.

Medical science must either change their limited scope or they will find themselves out of work soon enough. To many of us, they are already irrelevant. In my case, that's been true for years.

Medical science is the reason people aren't dying of polio and small pox, man.

Poor dietary choices are the reason you are all so sick. I haven't been sick in 18 years.