Do you belive in Santa Claus?

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Do you believe that Father Christmas really exists? I'm especially interested in hearing answers from devoted Christians. If you're a Santa Claus atheist, then why? What rationale are you applying to the non-existence of Santa Claus that cannot be applied to the non-existence of your God?

First and foremost your just a punk trolling and the fact you deny you practice the religion of atheism makes you a prevaricating hypocrite . Arhiests seem to be some of the most aggressive evangelicals going. Your dogma is evelution and your priests are your scientists and just like other churches you have a pope that leads your cause , that would be Dawkins.

From the latest Protocols of the Elders of Atheism? All hail Dawkins, in his honor we abort babies and have satanic sex with animals.

reply to post by rhinoceros


if tomorrow everyone in the world became an atheist,,, would there be a large positive change in the world? the way humans behave, and interact with one another,,,.,. would humanity be able to unite in the common goal of understanding the universe via science?

how bout this one,,,,, if it was promised to the world that everyone will live in peace and prosperity,, abolishment of conflict,,, only if people gave up their religions too unite under the new law of science,,,, would christians give up their religions, for the greater good of humanity? for a heaven on earth,, everything they could have wanted ( meaning peace and good will and brotherly love between all people).......

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
How can Santa be compared to God. How about the Tooth Fairy or those pesky Goblins at the bottom of the garden? There's a difference between childhood fantasies and faith. I'm not religious but even I can see that.

After reading this I realy needed to reply :-)

Is there a difference between 'childhood fantasies' and 'faith'? No! I think it's a similair kind of faith.

A child has faith in Santa...and a religious person has faith in a god. It's the same form of faith...only the faith in Santa (hopefully) dissapears as you get older. With this in mind I have never understood why people, beyond the age of 'believing in Santa', keep believing there is a god.

Why?

Only reason I have come up with is the fact that a religious person is never told to 'stop believing' at a certain age, while a child that believes in Santa is. A child that believes in Santa will eventually discover that it is all a big lie. But a religious person will 'never discover that god is a big lie', because they have been 'brainwashed' or 'indoctrinated', or to say it mildly: raised, to believe their whole life. In this case questioning or exploring the fact seems out of the question...because then you would question your parents, friends and neighbours. This is also the main reason religion still excists in the way it does.

Personally I haven't been brought up in a religious kind of way. So therefore I have no faith.
It's actually all quite logical

This is by the way also why we cannot blame religious people for their ignorance, it is not their fault completely...we should actually feel sorry for them...like they are 'still stuck in the matrix' or so.

Someone, a individual, is of course free to believe whatever they want, I couldn't care less, as long as these infantile ideas don't affect me that is. And they seem to affect me more and more (2012?!).

Imagine if nobody ever was told Santa was a big lie?

As a big fan of Richard Dawkins (because he always explains everything regarded to this subject very nicely) I recommend watching the following: Richard Dawkins vs Cardinal George Pell on Q&A (10-4-2012)

I've always been under the impression that Santa is for Children & Christianity is for Adults.

Correct me if I am incorrect.

Melodies -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes


Invisibility cloaks -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Awesome superhero powers -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Originally posted by Tresker
I've always been under the impression that Santa is for Children & Christianity is for Adults.

Correct me if I am incorrect.

Melodies -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes


Invisibility cloaks -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Awesome superhero powers -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Ho Ho Ho, there's more:

Judgment of naughty or nice?
Santa: Yes
Christianity: Yes

Naughty and not nice?
Santa: You get coal
Christianity: You shovel coal in hell

Want something?
Santa: Ask him
Christianity: Ask Jesus

Do you get gifts?
Santa: Bestows the Spirit of Good Will
Christianity: Bestows the Holy Spirit

No. I do not...at all. I was once asked this by my parents. The result: didnt end well. Just because you dont believe in an imaginary figure doesnt mean you dont believe in religion. Santa Claus is for the children. It entertains them. There shouldnt be a religious connection to this but sadly some people do it.

Originally posted by feelingconnected
Um no. Since I have to buy & wrap all Christmas prezies my self, and even buy my present each year & pretend it's from Santa even though I'm a good girl most of the time. How can you prove he exists? And are you joking?

Um yes. Since god only helps those that help themselves, and we even have to openly worship him to get into his good books even though I'm a good boy most of the time. How can you prove he exists? or are you joking?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Tresker
I've always been under the impression that Santa is for Children & Christianity is for Adults.

Correct me if I am incorrect.

Melodies -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes


Invisibility cloaks -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Awesome superhero powers -
Santa:Yes
Christianity: Yes

Ho Ho Ho, there's more:

Judgment of naughty or nice?
Santa: Yes
Christianity: Yes

Naughty and not nice?
Santa: You get coal
Christianity: You shovel coal in hell

Want something?
Santa: Ask him
Christianity: Ask Jesus

Do you get gifts?
Santa: Bestows the Spirit of Good Will
Christianity: Bestows the Holy Spirit

love it

reply to post by Filosoferick


You have a good point. Although I also wasn't brought up in a religious way, I am not completely Atheist although I do not believe in God either. I don't know if there is a difference between faith and hope but whenever I am in a bad place or feel like I need help, I look to the sky and talk to relatives who have passed away. I don't necessarily believe that they can hear me but it always seems to help. Is that hope or faith? I suppose it is agnosticism.

For making this awesome thread that is simplistic and clever at the same time .... you sir are God.
This is one of the logical questions that go through my mind.

Logic and religion is like oil and water. They're people who will believe in talking snakes (they don't have vocal cords or brain capacity), people walking on water, woman being created from a rib ... but they can't imagine anything outside of that fairy tale such as extraterrestrials or anything else this is logical.

Santa, God, Tooth Fairy, all imaginary creatures should be imaginary shot, burned and retired.

It simply cannot be healthy to live life in a state of delusion.

According to ancient text, Santa Clause maintains a list of everybody in the world and checks it at least twice. Depending on whether you have been good or bad, will determine how many presents you get. The texts also say that he visits every house in the world in the same night. Why question ancient text?

reply to post by rhinoceros


This is your ONLY arguement for someone with faith! This is every single person's arguement above someone with faith!!

YOU SPEAK TO A DEITY IN YOUR HEAD?? YOU MUST BE INSANE!!

I feel bad for you that you don't have a relationship with a god who can help. There have been MANY miracles in my life and they were all given to me by God.....I am not insane, I am very faithful in my understanding of God.

But again, you don't care and you will just blast me and label me as insane, as that is your only arguement A PERSONAL ATTACK!!

If you actually had more faith and spoke to God with a kind heart and complete faith he is there, you will be amazed at how your life turns to good!!

Label me what you will, and attack away.....But that doesn't help your pessismistic stance on the fact God is real and can be a real help....

Have fun calling me more names....

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein

And what about all the suffering children in the world? Are you somehow more "special" to receive miracles from god and they're just trash to him, not good enough for even a small whisper of his attention?

What kind of god allows innocent children and babies to suffer, yet offers such awesome happiness to others? What kind of benevolent, loving god even allows suffering to begin with? It's nonsensical.

The ultimate selfish act is for someone who confuses wants and needs when praying, yet when they get what they prayed for, they call it a miracle. I'm not directing that to anyone in particular but I see it all the time. I was was watching "Alaska Gold" the other week and the family actually prayed in a circle for god to give them gold. All the suffering and disease and death in the world....and they prayed for gold so they could be rich.

every year I play him and deliver my step sons presents, so I believe I am Santa Clause.
I believe I am him but on a smaller scale with a calibration of a large network of Santa Clauses (parents, grandparents, auntys, uncles, friends, foster parents) around the globe to make the children still believe.

How depressing it would be for these kids if there was none of the above going on. When religions are gone, I hope this is something we hold onto.

This thread actually got me wondering.

Why do we lie to our children and hide them from the real world?

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem conducive if you want a society with smart, logical people. Why deceive them like that? Part of me thinks the reason we introduce all these fake magical characters is so that they don't really consider questioning the idea of god at the time, and it sticks in their psychological development. We all know that children go through their most critical development stage while they are really young. If you instill all these images of happy go lucky magic characters that do cool things, later in life they'll be less likely to question the idea of god. When kids get old enough they realize that Santa Clause, tooth fairy and all that magic stuff is false and that their parents lied to them. But for some reason they don't always put god in that same category, despite the fact that they introduced him in the same manner at the same time. It seems these false creations are part of the indoctrination process, and the only reason religion is alive today in its capacity.

Originally posted by Barcs
When kids get old enough they realize that Santa Clause, tooth fairy and all that magic stuff is false and that their parents lied to them. But for some reason they don't always put god in that same category, despite the fact that they introduced him in the same manner at the same time.

Key difference is that God comes with all kinds of scary stuff, i.e. if you don't believe then it's eternal suffering in hell for you. Nothing like brainwashing kids by utilizing fear. My question is, when will this be recognized as child abuse like it should? Just like beating and molesting, religious indoctrination causes life-long scarred minds, it's like mental raping.

reply to post by rhinoceros


No doubt at all that it is an unhealthy practice (forcing religion onto young impressionable minds). Any group who indoctrinates young minds into religious beliefs promoted as truth, especially through fear based manipulation, is a dangerous brainwashing cult.

reply to post by Barcs


I don't see a problem with mythology, fairy tales and story telling when we are young, it's a magical time. Not so with religious fairy tales promoted as truth though. This way ignorance and fear based superstition get handed from one generation to the next. This has far greater implications and should definitely be kept away from people until they are mature enough to make up their own minds and choose it for themselves, if they wish.

reply to post by rhinoceros


I love this point, and I've been amazed that more people don't bring up Santa in discussions on God. God is given a free pass because he's more ancient and because adults somehow manage to remain sincere in their belief but I can see no reason why belief in God is different from belief in Santa.




Many things about Santa Claus actually make him MORE plausible than the Christian God.

Some will argue that the situations are different because we know Santa Claus is a deliberate work of fiction based loosely upon a real figure named Saint Nicolas but then I would argue that, if we're being honest, we also know that the Christian God, as defined by myth, doctrine and scripture, is also known to be fictional despite people's indoctrination and subsequent self-delusion.

Santa does not share God's omnipotence or the requirement of omnibenevolence made by most Christian teachings and thus his limitations make his existence more logically sound. Santa never condones slavery, never commands genocide, and never sentences his own son to die needlessly making him arguably more moral than the Christian God as well.

The main difference I can see between Santa and God is that one is a lie we tell ourselves, and the other is a lie we tell our children only to later correct them.

There is also a point to be made for the acceptance of recent beliefs versus ancient ones. Christianity has been a big part of the culture since its adoption by the Roman Empire. In recent times beliefs like those of Mormons and Scientologists have come under fire for being absurd and obviously ridiculous but I have a feeling this has more to do with how recent these beliefs are. If they gain prominence and are indoctrinated into youths at a young enough age then they will not seem so strange, they may become normalized.

A belief in an ancient alien named Xenu who brainwashed alien souls and blew up ancient volcanoes is no more absurd than the belief that the Earth is only 6,000 years old (held by young earth creationists) or the idea that a man who was also god but also the son of god impregnated a virgin and sacrificed his mortal life only to get it right back three days later in order to forgive human beings because they ate magical fruit they weren't supposed to.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

This is your ONLY arguement for someone with faith! This is every single person's arguement above someone with faith!!

YOU SPEAK TO A DEITY IN YOUR HEAD?? YOU MUST BE INSANE!!

I feel bad for you that you don't have a relationship with a god who can help. There have been MANY miracles in my life and they were all given to me by God.....I am not insane, I am very faithful in my understanding of God.

But again, you don't care and you will just blast me and label me as insane, as that is your only arguement A PERSONAL ATTACK!!

If you actually had more faith and spoke to God with a kind heart and complete faith he is there, you will be amazed at how your life turns to good!!

Label me what you will, and attack away.....But that doesn't help your pessismistic stance on the fact God is real and can be a real help....

Have fun calling me more names....

Here you go.


Incidentally the voice in my head is named Steve. Nice bloke holds the same opinions I do, usually................