I personally have and this thread is in opposition to the other thread here. I do believe in a much higher power then myself. I have successfully been able to on several occasions persuade other people to reconsider their non-belief and anti-belief systems. Simple statement/question that does the trick over time and also stops most attacks that I encounter from people who know or find out I am a christian.

"I can afford to be wrong. Can you?"

It will not work on many. Not a lot of things can change someone's mind when they are very set. I don't give them a lot of attention nor let the rants distract me and mine.

Man, your going to be quite upset when you find out the Jews were right and you have taken on a false god, thereby mocking the OT god.
Probably haven't even sacrificed any animals for the sins you have committed. tisk tisk,

Originally posted by jollyjollyjolly
I personally have and this thread is in opposition to the other thread here. I do believe in a much higher power then myself. I have successfully been able to on several occasions persuade other people to reconsider their non-belief and anti-belief systems. Simple statement/question that does the trick over time and also stops most attacks that I encounter from people who know or find out I am a christian.

"I can afford to be wrong. Can you?"

It will not work on many. Not a lot of things can change someone's mind when they are very set. I don't give them a lot of attention nor let the rants distract me and mine.

The Pascal Wager. It at least explains a lot about someone.

I can afford to be wrong, can you?

Let’s have a quick look at a scenario, the end of days / tribulation / the next coming of (insert god here) whatever you want to call it......

If your god turns out to be “not the correct one to choose” then you are in the same boat (if not worse) than say, an atheist who has not waisted their life chasing a fairy story.

Where an atheist who does not believe in any gods would have a better chance of being taken to a ”beautiful place amongst the clouds” if they begged for forgiveness.

I think if a god different to the one you were expecting suddenly appeared in the sky, you would not be able to function, you would spoil your pants & you would have a very difficult time convincing the real god that you are worthy to be with it.

Why does anyone have to accept any of the variants of christian gods during their lifetime any-way when all of them state that you can “recant on your deathbed” and be saved? I’m sure that if you have indeed chosen correctly you’re going to love hanging out for all eternity with all the atheists and non-believers that snuck through at the last second.

I also don’t believe that you have converted a non-religious person to your religion...... I’m suggesting they made you feel better just so you would give up thumping them over the head with whatever religious clap-trap you carry around with you.

PS: Accidently gave you a star - wish I could take it back.

Mickierocksman

I am a Christian as well, but I no longer approach 'religion' as some over-arching belief system. All religions are, practically speaking, relativized. That is how I approach it. I treat them as individuals and dive into their opinions and world-views to see where they stand.. and if I see an inconsistency, I might say something, but only if I know they're in a position to understand it further.

Usually though, religion is organic to me. It's as much as part of an individual as their personality is and their personality is very much a quantity of experience. I don't proselytize though if that's what you're getting at.

Originally posted by Mickierocksman
PS: Accidently gave you a star - wish I could take it back.

Wow. Who urinated in your cornflakes?

I believe in free will and self-determination

I would never deliberately attempt to persuade someone to adopt a religion, nor to give one up. Though I might profer facts that may lead to them reconsidering their position.

Proselytizing has been one of the great evils of the past millenia and has brought many organisied religions into disrepute, and one of the reason many, such as myself, distain them today.

Profer the facts. But less us decide. Arrogance is not a virtue.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Man, your going to be quite upset when you find out the Jews were right and you have taken on a false god, thereby mocking the OT god.
Probably haven't even sacrificed any animals for the sins you have committed. tisk tisk,

Jesus Christ and his NEWCOVENANT banned sacrifice.

When Jews insisted it was WRONG NOT TO slaughter an innocent beast for the sake of the holiday Jesus said, "Hold up there fella - there are some new rules I am giving you. You misunderstood the old rules and it has got hopelessly out of control. Dad is disgusted and threatening to wipe you out again so you better listen. This is the last warning. This is what our Father wants now. Write it down;"

My father desires COMPASSION and NOT a sacrifice.

Yes, I have recruited many Pastafarians to the cause. You cannot afford to be wrong when you're cowering before His Noodle Appendages when the Great Pot of Life comes off the Boil.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Man, your going to be quite upset when you find out the Jews were right and you have taken on a false god, thereby mocking the OT god.
Probably haven't even sacrificed any animals for the sins you have committed. tisk tisk,

Jesus Christ and his NEWCOVENANT banned sacrifice.

When Jews insisted it was WRONG NOT TO slaughter an innocent beast for the sake of the holiday Jesus said, "Hold up there fella - there are some new rules I am giving you. You misunderstood the old rules and it has got hopelessly out of control. Dad is disgusted and threatening to wipe you out again so you better listen. This is the last warning. This is what our Father wants now. Write it down;"

My father desires COMPASSION and NOT a sacrifice.

Some people accept JC as the son of god, messiah, etc..
Some see him as simply a prophet
Some see him as a simple carpenter whom was anti-religious
Some see him as a myth
Some see him as a heretic

I wonder who is right.

The second part of the pascal wager is just that...the argument put forth is I can afford to be wrong, you can't.
But, then you have the issue of taking on the wrong religion, worshipping the wrong god, etc..
So, theists want to say its a 50/50 gamble, but in reality, its 50% to an atheist, and like 1/100th likelyhood for a theist that they got it right...
And as mentioned above, Would a deity be more forgiving for someone whom decided not to worship a deity until proof came along, or to someone whom was worshipping an enemy deity out of fear of it...it takes no guts to fall to your knee in the face of fear..it takes principle and strength to push aside the fear in favor of truth.

So, in the whole realm of anthropomorphic understanding of a deity, does a king reward courage to stand until truth is given or cowardice to kneel at the feet of the enemy...

Originally posted by jollyjollyjolly
"I can afford to be wrong. Can you?"

It will not work on many. Not a lot of things can change someone's mind when they are very set. I don't give them a lot of attention nor let the rants distract me and mine.

I don't mean any offense by this, but that statement will only fool weak minded people. It's nothing more than an appeal to fear, and also that statement could apply to any religion, and there's still no way to tell which is correct and which is wrong. That's why I prefer to wait for evidence before choosing to believe or not believe in a god.

I couldn't imagine being a priest and dedicating my entire life to a "maybe". What happens if he's wrong and after this life on earth, he just dies and that's the end? He wasted his one and only entire life on a pipe dream. I just have difficulty in trusting man to define god accurately, let alone primitive man from 2000+ years ago.

Hey, I'd believe in God, but I don't. I can't. Wish I could and that it was real, but I don't believe that and I find it hard to force myself to.

Again I will reiterate to the thread as a whole. I am not instigating any conversations on religion, I just have a good reasoning when I am attacked for something like wearing a cross. I don't get tangled nor beat anyone with my beliefs, as I mentioned I don't have time like that to waste.

On a few occasions people have thought logically about the simple yet profound statement I have put forth and taken it further on their own. Then I am happy to spend time going deeper. Some of the responses, wow. I hope you are right about people being able to recant a belief upon death. Why would I mind spending the afterlife with people that don't agree with me...this "plane or existence" is certifiably full of these people also and I have to say I do like living here as well If some other deity comes down from the sky I will listen to what they have to say as well. I wont be poo'in anymore then every other human at that point.

I did get a good laugh at the cornflake comment.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Man, your going to be quite upset when you find out the Jews were right and you have taken on a false god, thereby mocking the OT god.
Probably haven't even sacrificed any animals for the sins you have committed. tisk tisk,

Jesus Christ and his NEWCOVENANT banned sacrifice.

When Jews insisted it was WRONG NOT TO slaughter an innocent beast for the sake of the holiday Jesus said, "Hold up there fella - there are some new rules I am giving you. You misunderstood the old rules and it has got hopelessly out of control. Dad is disgusted and threatening to wipe you out again so you better listen. This is the last warning. This is what our Father wants now. Write it down;"

My father desires COMPASSION and NOT a sacrifice.

Some people accept JC as the son of god, messiah, etc..
Some see him as simply a prophet
Some see him as a simple carpenter whom was anti-religious
Some see him as a myth
Some see him as a heretic

I wonder who is right.

The second part of the pascal wager is just that...the argument put forth is I can afford to be wrong, you can't.
But, then you have the issue of taking on the wrong religion, worshipping the wrong god, etc..
So, theists want to say its a 50/50 gamble, but in reality, its 50% to an atheist, and like 1/100th likelyhood for a theist that they got it right...
And as mentioned above, Would a deity be more forgiving for someone whom decided not to worship a deity until proof came along, or to someone whom was worshipping an enemy deity out of fear of it...it takes no guts to fall to your knee in the face of fear..it takes principle and strength to push aside the fear in favor of truth.

So, in the whole realm of anthropomorphic understanding of a deity, does a king reward courage to stand until truth is given or cowardice to kneel at the feet of the enemy...

You would have to know the deity to determine that and I think that is what Christianity tries to do. Introduce you to a stranger...God. Now I am not sure I like those odds you're laying. Personal faith and belief aside there are many other confirmations of Christ and the gospels some from curious sources. Biblical archeology is always finding some reinforcement to the historical accuracy of the Bible. Dorothy Izatt seems to think UFO's confirm the existence of a deity. Other abductee I have found credible report that there is a grand creator and we are expected to show compassion and love, to lose the atomic weapons etc.. Many people who supposedly passed over in an NDE say the same or have similar reports to share - to me these all support existence of a creator and coupled with my own personal experience I am not at all sure the odds favor random chance.