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The law treats a corporation as a legal "person" that has standing to sue and be sued, distinct from its stockholders. The legal independence of a corporation prevents shareholders from being personally liable for corporate debts.
so·cial·ism
noun ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
Definition of SOCIALISM
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
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Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844
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Private Property and Communism
Re. p. XXXIX. [This refers to the missing part of the second manuscript. - Ed.] The antithesis between lack of property and property, so long as it is not comprehended as the antithesis of labour and capital, still remains an indifferent antithesis, not grasped in its active connection, in its internal relation, not yet grasped as a contradiction. It can find expression in this first form even without the advanced development of private property (as in ancient Rome, Turkey, etc.). It does not yet appear as having been established by private property itself. But labour, the subjective essence of private property as exclusion of property, and capital, objective labour as exclusion of labour, constitute private property as its developed state of contradiction – hence a dynamic relationship driving towards resolution.
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Originally posted by ANOK
Once again you can't have nationalism and socialism at the same time as they are both economic systems, and only one economic system can be dominant, so that WIki quote contradicts itself.
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Nationalism is a political ideology that involves a strong identification of a group of individuals with a nation.
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Socialist ownership of the means of production is ownership by all workers.
What Socialism is: "Collective ownership and democratic control of the material means of production by the workers and the people."
Socialism entails ownership of the socialized means of production by the workers engaged in the production (see: Worker cooperative) and social, or worker control in the appropriation of the socially produced surplus product (profit), either in the form of economic planning and planned investment, or by autonomous worker cooperatives.
Under socialism the workers who operate the industries and services would collectively own and democratically manage them.
"Socialism is the idea that the working class, the class that produces the profits, the wealth, the cars, houses, planes, steel, should take over and run things collectively, democratically, for the benefit of the majority (who also "just happen" to be workers too).
Socialism by contrast is a social system in which every able bodied person is, was or will be a worker. These workers commonly own and control the means of production (this is the characteristic form of public ownership). Thus in socialism we have, in a perfectly literal sense, a classless society for there is no division between human beings along class lines.
Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
Once again you can't have nationalism and socialism at the same time as they are both economic systems, and only one economic system can be dominant, so that WIki quote contradicts itself.
Mussolini's fascism called for nationalism, state owns and controls the means of production. He did not call for worker ownership, socialism. There was no worker ownership in fascism, it is a system where the state has the ultimate power over individuals, socialist or capitalist. Even though they did allow some private ownership.
Socialism once again is worker ownership.
And again corporations are capitalist, they are owned and controlled by private individuals or groups. Capitalists incorporate to protect their personal wealth, and other reasons. If you are in a corporation and your company goes bankrupt no one can take your personal wealth. Corporations are treated as people, so the corporation itself is taken to court and is liable, not the owners. It's a way for capitalists to protect themselves from being financially responsible if their company fails.
Socialism doesn't use corporations. It has no reason to.
The law treats a corporation as a legal "person" that has standing to sue and be sued, distinct from its stockholders. The legal independence of a corporation prevents shareholders from being personally liable for corporate debts.
www.law.cornell.edu...
It's a social safety net for capitalists.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Socialism and communism have been tried SEVERAL times, and they all end up in the same thing.. SOCIALIST DICTATORSHIPS...
Stop the lying already...
I know, and most of us know that "today's socialists" or communists LOVE to LIE. Changing the definitions of socialism/communism, adding things they "think" would attract new people, but in reality the truth can be found by ANYONE... Even if RICH socialists/communists have been working hard at rewritting the history of their diseased ideologies...
Socialism/communism WILL ALWAYS spawn socialist dictatorship, because "in the name of the worker" every right can be trampled, and liberty can be taken away "for the good of the collective and the good of the revolution", even when the "crime" committed is WANTING FREEDOM...
edit on 18-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
absolutely wrong. socialism is an economic system and nationalism is to protect your economy and borders from imperialism, while trying to expand it possibly. Nationalism in the extreme form is belligerance to other nations.
Nationalization (British English spelling nationalisation) is the process of taking an industry or assets into government ownership by a national government or state.[1] Nationalization usually refers to private assets, but may also mean assets owned by lower levels of government, such as municipalities, being transferred to the public sector to be operated and owned by the state. The opposite of nationalization is usually privatization or de-nationalization, but may also be municipalization.
well in the soviet union which was officially a socialist republic everything was STILL nationalised on behalf of the people. you keep confusing socialism with communism. communism is really anarchy and nothing else according to the communist manifesto. if the workers DIRECTLY own the means of production and there is no central government, how is it not anarchy??????
Socialism, in it's traditional and true definition, means "the workers democratic ownership and/or control of the means of production"
yes worker ownership but the government MANAGES everything.
Such a definition implies that rather than a government bureaucracy for managing such means, there is a focus on highly democratic organization, education and awareness, and every individual is encouraged to become an active, rather than passive participant in that which effect their lives.
AGREED! but with mild socialism(western european style) in a mixed economy, corporations are allowed to exist and closely monitored/regulated. There is no corporatism with communism or anarchy.
in a free market capitalist system the government is run by corporations and we call this state capitalism. the people who like this are conservatives. liberals attempt to superficially treat the capitalist syndrome with hypocritical legislation and tons of it, that only apply to small and medium business and the big business gets a free ride.
To the revolutionary Socialist I do not appeal as the Liberal candidate for Dundee. I recognise that they are perfectly right in voting against me and voting against the Liberals, because Liberalism is not Socialism, and never will be. [Cheers.]There is a great gulf fixed. It is not only a gulf of method, it is a gulf of principle. There are many steps we have to take which our Socialist opponents or friends, whichever they like to call themselves, will have to take with us; but there are immense differences of principle and of political philosophy between the views we put forward and the views they put forward. Winston Churchill, Liberal Party candidate for Dundee, May 4, 1908. Kinnaird Hall, Dundee
Socialism doesn't have to have a state. How many more times does this have to be repeated....
Anarchism is STATELESS socialism", Mikhail Bakunin, one of the founding fathers of Anarchism.
The Soviet Union was never officially socialist.
Communism is a form of socialism just like anarchism is. Communism and anarchism are radical versions of socialism. Socialism is worker ownership, both communism and anarchism support worker ownership...
The soviet union had nationalised industry, some call it state-capitalism because it is not ownership by the workers. In a socialist nation the state would not own the means of production, the workers would, otherwise it's not socialism it is nationalism.
Not true, workers own and control their own workplaces, government has nothing to do with it...
Europe is not socialist it is liberal. Please learn the difference between socialism and liberalism.
Socialists want worker ownership, liberals want state intervention in the economy and a social safety net.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I know, and most of us know that "today's socialists" or communists LOVE to LIE. Changing the definitions of socialism/communism, adding things they "think" would attract new people, but in reality the truth can be found by ANYONE... Even if RICH socialists/communists have been working hard at rewritting the history of their diseased ideologies...
Socialism/communism WILL ALWAYS spawn socialist dictatorship, because "in the name of the worker" every right can be trampled, and liberty can be taken away "for the good of the collective and the good of the revolution", even when the "crime" committed is WANTING FREEDOM...
edit on 18-6-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
There is national socialism and International socialism. You could benefit from more research if you want to convince people.
Nationalisation
Most of the UK's major strategic heavy industries and public utilities were nationalised between 1946 and the early 1950s, only to be returned to the private sector between 1979 and 1990....
If you look at the comments of Maxine Watters, one can easily perceive that while our country is still operating with private businesses, the plan is to continually nationalize industry. Obama has indeed been trying to do that, with banking, with the auto industry, and with oil, but the oil companies are resistant.
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ANOK
ONce again, since you are having such a hard time grasping this, collective ownership means State ownership, because the State is the collective ruled by an elite. No one person has private property in communism, and socialism is the bridge between capitalism and communism. Therefore one has to realize that during the process of bringing communism, there are still some private functions. WILL YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND THIS POINT?
Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
If businesses in your country were being sold off to private interests, then that is privatisation. Unfortunately what is happening in the world is both the nationalizing of private industry and the privatising of public DEBT created by the Statist monsters.
edit on 19-6-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)edit on 19-6-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)