Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

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posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


This has actually given me an idea for a thread...hopefully, I'll have time to do it.




posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I mentioned Mark. I didn't mention Matthew or Luke, but, yes, they testify as well. I tend to gravitate toward John, though, since he was literally there for it all.


Yeah, I like John the best also. But let's not forget who really authored the books of the Bible, He was everywhere.


edit on 18-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by CLPrime
 


This has actually given me an idea for a thread...hopefully, I'll have time to do it.


Yes - please start a thread: Factual Jesus vs Mystical Biblical Jesus.

The bible is not proof of Jesus. It does prove man can put his viewpoint in writing.

Belief is not fact.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Glad to see you replied to my trivial thread-idea post rather that my actual historical-evidence-of-Jesus post.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by Annee
 


Glad to see you replied to my trivial thread-idea post rather that my actual historical-evidence-of-Jesus post.


There is no evidence of the "mystical biblical Jesus".

There is evidence of a man named Jesus (modern day pronunciation) - - a political dissident.

Put your proof where your text is - - start the thread.

edit on 18-6-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by CLPrime
 


This has actually given me an idea for a thread...hopefully, I'll have time to do it.


Yes - please start a thread: Factual Jesus vs Mystical Biblical Jesus.

The bible is not proof of Jesus. It does prove man can put his viewpoint in writing.

Belief is not fact.


That's a false statememt. Even atheist historians don't deny Christ existed. They deny the supernatural claims but none deny his existence. They use the gospels for what they claim to be and subject them to the same standards they would subject any other written account from antiquity. It takes a seriously biased anti-Christian historian to deny things his contemporaries never deny. Christ lived and died on a Roman cross, they argue over the historicity of the supernatural, but don't dare to question His life and death.

edit on 18-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's a false statememt. Even atheist historians don't deny Christ existed. They deny the supernatural claims but none deny his existence.


Did you miss my post that stated this?


There was a real Jesus who was condemned to death for being a political dissident.


I am fully aware there was a man named Jesus (modern day pronunciation). Actually several - - but one specifically believed to be the Jesus of the bible.

As I say: Johnny Appleseed was a real person too.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

There is no evidence of the "mystical biblical Jesus".


Just the entire New Testament. But, you're right, there is no secular evidence for the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Not that I would expect there to be, as anyone writing about the resurrection from an eye-witness point-of-view would likely be admitting that he was the Messianic Son of God, which, of course, would make it an early Christian writing and not a secular writing. Supporting this hypothesis are the multitude of early Christian writings testifying of the resurrection.



There is evidence of a man named Jesus (modern day pronunciation) - - a political dissident.


You're right, there is. And that evidence conforms to the early Christian testimony. The only thing it doesn't admit is the resurrection, which, again, would make it early Christian testimony...and, as you have made clear, early Christian testimony is obviously worthy of nothing more than being ignored.
By the way, do you think Roman records would be so unbiased as to confirm the testimony of the "cult" they feared? There are two sides to the story: the Christian side and the Roman side...and both are biased. And so are you, for choosing to listen solely to the Roman side.



Put your proof where your text is - - start the thread.


That wasn't the idea I had.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That's a false statememt. Even atheist historians don't deny Christ existed. They deny the supernatural claims but none deny his existence.


Did you miss my post that stated this?


There was a real Jesus who was condemned to death for being a political dissident.


I am fully aware there was a man named Jesus (modern day pronunciation). Actually several - - but one specifically believed to be the Jesus of the bible.

As I say: Johnny Appleseed was a real person too.


Okay, how could a "secular" account testify of His resurrection from the dead and still be considered "secular"???



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by CLPrime
 


Pretty much!



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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Believe it or not....NO one is a true atheist

Agnostic sure.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by six67seven
Drowning oneself in anything is not healthy, no matter if it's religion or Taco Bell. It's unsustainable.

Balance is the key for the mind, body and soul.

So only eat Taco Bell once a week or so. Same goes for exposure to religion


Taco Bell once a week. Wow! You must still be young. At 44, my body cannot handle such processed crap without feeling ill. This goes for most all fast food and processed stuff that people eat.

Once a year is balance to year... if that. In and Out once a month and my body feels way out of whack.

Stick to organic, vaggies, lean meat, fruits, nuts... non fat milk if you can and pure water... basic and sooooooooo good for the body. Toss in some CoQ10/fish oil and vitamins and now that is balance. IMHO.
edit on 18-6-2012 by GoldenVoyager because: grammar



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime

Just the entire New Testament. But, you're right, there is no secular evidence for the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Not that I would expect there to be, as anyone writing about the resurrection from an eye-witness point-of-view would likely be admitting that he was the Messianic Son of God, which, of course, would make it an early Christian writing and not a secular writing. Supporting this hypothesis are the multitude of early Christian writings testifying of the resurrection.


And 'round and 'round we go.

There is no proof of ANYTHING "mystical" or "special" about Jesus from eyewitness accounts. None.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical


Okay, how could a "secular" account testify of His resurrection from the dead and still be considered "secular"???


Because it would be fact - - instead of made up.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Your reply has nothing to do with his post.

Explain how a secular account of Jesus' resurrection would still be considered a secular account.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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If you can find proof of Jesus outside of the Bible and Josephus, I'll give you a shiny nickel.

If you can find proof of Hebrews being enslaved by Egyptians, I'll give you a quarter.

EDIT: But as far as this thread goes: I stand behind preachers and priests coming out as non-believers 100%. It's difficult to hold on to word-of-mouth beliefs as fact for long.
edit on 6/18/2012 by Anonymous404 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by smyleegrl



Jerry DeWitt entered the ministry when he was 17, launching a 25-year career as a Pentecostal preacher. He traveled all around his home state of Louisiana, preaching and ministering wherever he could.

All these years later, DeWitt, 42, is still on the road, and now takes his message all over the United States. But the nature of that message, along with his audience, has changed dramatically.

DeWitt is now an avowed atheist, and his audiences are made up of religious “nones,” the growing number of Americans who are atheist, agnostic, humanist or just plain disinterested in identifying with a religion. Today, DeWitt preaches a gospel of disbelief.



I found this article very interesting, and one I can easily relate to.

I grew up in a loving and wonderful Baptist home. My church truly was a big family and I was very involved in everything the church did. Went on countless mission trips, did community work, etc.

Anywhoo, I decide to become a missionary after school. Specifically, I wanted to work in foreign mission fields with education (mainly help start schools for children in very poor areas). So I majored in theology while getting my undergrad. Did so well in my chosen field (which was heavily male-dominated and I caught a lot of flack for being female) that the school sent me to study Baptist history at Oxford University. All of this was wonderful and exciting, but something was changing and I did my best to ignore it.

By the time I graduated from college, I could no longer push those nagging doubts aside. So I pulled them out and really examined what I believed. I was shocked when I realized I no longer had faith that the Bible was God's dictated word, or even if God exists.

You can imagine the turmoil and upheaval this entire journey caused.

Today I call myself agnostic. I'm not an aethiest; the fact is, I don't know if there's a God or not and I'm not sure people can truly comprehend that God if he exists. I do like the idea of a benevolent God watching out for us, but then I see the hate and bigotry practiced in the name of religion and I've had enough.

So, to the article. Apparently this man was a preacher for many years before realizing he didn't believe in God. He now travels the country helping other pastors "come out" of the aethiest closet.

Good idea? Bad idea? What do you think?




I think it is sooo "mankind like" to blame God for man's (in) discretions for the hate and bigotry and results of our own actions. But, I have to wonder about the death and disease of innocent and very beautiful (I am talking about their hearts) people. Sometimes, it just doesn't make sense. However, why would a preacher become a preacher if he/she didn't believe? What is the purpose? It's not like they make a lot of money or are forced into it. Are they egotists wanting attention? I don't get it. Why not join the Thespians?
edit on 18-6-2012 by Gridrebel because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-6-2012 by Gridrebel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous404

I stand behind preachers and priests coming out as non-believers 100%. It's difficult to hold on to word-of-mouth beliefs as fact for long.


I think that's it. Most people were illiterate and also did not have access to factual material. People believed what they were told.

Even in the 50s when the military or other government said JUMP - - you JUMPED. It's been interesting for me over the years watching the awakening.

Many kids today are just not gullible. They are very aware of reality.
edit on 18-6-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by superluminal11
Believe it or not....NO one is a true atheist

Agnostic sure.


Don't need to believe. I can provide you with written evidence.

There is no evidence of any deities ever being real. Nor will there be. Man has created a veritable horde of them during his tenure on this planet, each have faded away as will yours.

I know faith and belief are real, I've witnessed them. but belief and faith do not change the fact that there is zero evidence for any deity existing, ever.

Signed........me.

Do not presume to know another persons mind. That's just rude.



posted on Jun, 18 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Noncompatible
 


If faith and belif are real, what are they based on? I have faith and belief that when I turn on my water faucet, water will come out. What is the faith and belief you are referring to?

edit on 18-6-2012 by Gridrebel because: (no reason given)





 
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