Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists, page 3

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reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:09 PM by TheFogHorn

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Matthew 15:24 has always bothered me.

24 But He answered and said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

That verse always bugged me a little bit too. Of course the whole section shows that Jesus does finally help the woman. Maybe He wanted to teach his disciples that a parent's love for a child is greater than pride?

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Faith of the Canaanite Women

A horribly condescending situation. Jesus simply responded to the woman's humbleness, which he took as flattery in his narcissism. Narcissists are suckers for foot kissers.

Read this....www.helium.com...

The woman endorsed his position, he was flattered by it and she turned him around. Very simple.

edit on 14-6-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:25 PM by CLPrime

reply to post by TheFogHorn

Would a narcissist allow himself to be executed by those he should have wanted the adoration of? They insulted him. They beat him. They crucified him. And he allowed them to, all so that he could reconcile the few who are faithful, like that Canaanite woman, back to the Father. Is that typical narcissistic behaviour?

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:33 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by CLPrime

Hey Prime, just noticed it was you friend. Got an Alpha and Omega tattoo yesterday on my right forearm. Love the Greek, have you worked on any new translations lately?

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:45 PM by CLPrime

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I do tiny bits of translation work all the time as required for sermons and studies and whatnot. The full-time minister here and I have actually been talking about getting rid of the NIV. He said he'd rather be using the NASB. Personally, I'd have a combination of the NASB and NKJV -- no sense being biased about the Byzantine or Alexandrian texts when you can just go to both. Of course, if I had it my way, there would be enough of the Western text to use a translation of that, but, unfortunately, we don't, so we won't. The New King Jimmy and the New American Slandered will have to do.

ETA: And, by the way, I knew it was you from the first second I saw your avatar

You stand out in a crowd.

edit on 14-6-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:50 PM by HoppedUp

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"The sheep" that's a curious title for the adherents of a belief that proudly proclaims it's status as the absolute truth. Then are pastors and priest the shepherds? Or just the wolves in sheep's clothing?

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 08:55 PM by jiggerj

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by smyleegrl

We are all atheist at the core. Atheism is a rejection of the existence of gods, plural. So unless you accept the veritable horde that mankind has created over time, you are an atheist to someone.

As for "ex"-preacher, he's a grifter looking to create a flock and generate money to spread his "message."

Yup. and I've said it before, if people actually believed the events as written in the bible (the flood, killing all the first born of Egypt, and all of the terrible acts of this god) then people would be on their knees all day, every day, and trembling in fear for maybe forgetting to ask for forgiveness for a sin they may have forgotten.

If people TRULY believed in this god, they would never marry, never have sex, well, never do anything but pray, and sweat.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:09 PM by NOTurTypical

reply to post by jiggerj

So what was God supposed to do when the Pharaoh ordered the death of every firstborn of the Hebrews? Nod and wink and let that one slide? He'd already said basically to leave revenge to Him. Or are dead Hebrew babies okay and dead Egyptian babies a tragedy?

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:11 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HoppedUp
reply to post by NOTurTypical

"The sheep" that's a curious title for the adherents of a belief that proudly proclaims it's status as the absolute truth. Then are pastors and priest the shepherds? Or just the wolves in sheep's clothing?

Some are wolves/ false teachers, most are not. And pastors are commonly referred to as shepherds as well. And the "sheep" comes from many of Christ's teachings. It's just a metaphor, sheep are pretty stubborn animals.. like most of us. We're saved by grace remember?

edit on 14-6-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:15 PM by Annee

Originally posted by jiggerj

Yup. and I've said it before, if people actually believed the events as written in the bible (the flood, killing all the first born of Egypt, and all of the terrible acts of this god) then people would be on their knees all day, every day, and trembling in fear for maybe forgetting to ask for forgiveness for a sin they may have forgotten.

If people TRULY believed in this god, they would never marry, never have sex, well, never do anything but pray, and sweat.

For sure!

When I finally accepted I am Atheist - - - it was like a huge weight was lifted off me - - - I started living for today - - - not for a reward at the end.

Fear of God is extremely debilitating.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:19 PM by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by NOTurTypical

I do tiny bits of translation work all the time as required for sermons and studies and whatnot. The full-time minister here and I have actually been talking about getting rid of the NIV. He said he'd rather be using the NASB. Personally, I'd have a combination of the NASB and NKJV -- no sense being biased about the Byzantine or Alexandrian texts when you can just go to both. Of course, if I had it my way, there would be enough of the Western text to use a translation of that, but, unfortunately, we don't, so we won't. The New King Jimmy and the New American Slandered will have to do.

ETA: And, by the way, I knew it was you from the first second I saw your avatar You stand out in a crowd.
edit on 14-6-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

Haha, that's not good. The ancient Japanese proverb says : "The nail that sticks out is the one that gets hammered."

. I like the idea of trashing the NIV. HORRIBLE translation and just go with anything that's not from Westcott and Hort and you'll do fine. My pig in the race is the Byzantine text, but I also dig the AMP and the ESV. The message is a great paraphrase, I guess I'm starting to become a translation nerd. I would have easily recognized you on the PC, but out in the sun and on my cell it was hard to see your avatar.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:45 PM by Noncompatible

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Noncompatible
reply to post by smyleegrl

We are all atheist at the core. Atheism is a rejection of the existence of gods, plural. So unless you accept the veritable horde that mankind has created over time, you are an atheist to someone.

As for "ex"-preacher, he's a grifter looking to create a flock and generate money to spread his "message."

I am not an atheist. I do not know if a god exists, but I am very open to that possibility and I'm actively searching for answers. An atheist, on the other hand, firmly believes there is no god. If anything, atheism requires as much faith as theism.

And I agree with your assessment of the guy. Money.

Actually, just to be pedantic, atheism denies all gods. So do you embrace the possibility of them all them all or just a few or even just one ?
If anything other than the first response then yes you are an atheist to somebody.
Do not fall for the current trend here on ATS that atheism, pure form, is a rejection of a particular god (namely the christian one).
In point of fact for most atheists of my inclination it is not a rejection of anything. You cannot reject something that has no objective evidence of existence.

It requires no faith all all. There is zero evidence for any deity, this does not require faith, it simply requires objectivity.
Show me tangible proof. I will happily acknowledge my mistake and continue on with life.

edit on 14-6-2012 by Noncompatible because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:51 PM by Noncompatible

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

In a nutshell:
"Conform to our way of thinking or burn in hell, sinner."

Thanks for the offer, but my GPS works just fine without yours, or any other of the thousands out there, idea of a deity.

Better to be "lost" and free than "found" and enslaved.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 09:55 PM by GeisterFahrer

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by smyleegrl

Belief in God doesn't come from education, it comes from personal spiritual experiences. No amount of education can give you that.

One thing is for sure. Trusting or putting faith in mankind only leads to continual disappointment. Sometimes it takes figuring this out before anyone can be ready to put your faith and trust in something higher.

I totally agree with the previous poster that anyone preaching God's Word should stop immediately if they ever start doubting their faith. I personally have no problem with someone telling their story on why they don't believe or "preaching" it to others. The people listening to them will either identify with it or feel uncomfortable with it. It's due to this level of understanding or uncomfort that leads each individual to search further for their true intentions.

^^^This times 100.

Every believer was at one time an atheist.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 10:01 PM by CLPrime

Originally posted by Noncompatible

In a nutshell:
"Conform to our way of thinking or burn in hell, sinner."

Any Christian who says that is doing the Kingdom a great disservice.

Thanks for the offer, but my GPS works just fine without yours, or any other of the thousands out there, idea of a deity.

Better to be "lost" and free than "found" and enslaved.

I never made you any offer. I didn't try to convert anyone. Someone said they were insulted by my use of the word "lost" and I responded.

If you don't mind my asking (and this goes to TheFogHorn as well, who was the one who was originally insulted by my use of the word), what term would you say I should use to describe those who haven't been reconciled to the Father through Christ?

edit on 14-6-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 10:21 PM by Screwed

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Screwed

That doesn't really make much sense though.....

We're talking about people who base their entire belief system and world view on what some guy or girl TOLD THEM is true. From there, they blindly accept everything told to them form their pastor and actually believe that
the grand architect of our entire universe wrote a book called the bible.

They (for the most part) believe that A whte dude and a white chick were the first and ONLY people on the planet and from them.....>EVERY CULTURE AND EVERY RACE on the planet were born.

Not one of the seriously brainwashed amoungst them ever bring up the fact that after adam and eve had their first couple of kids, at some point........some incest HAD TO take place.

I could go on all friggin night about stuff not makin' sense brother.
It's best we don't go there.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 10:53 PM by autowrench

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

If all that you say is true, then I salute you. Now, please educate your brethren who keep saying ghosts and UFOs and Aliens are all demons? But then you yourself call them...."nonsense." Is that what you really think? If your dead Grandma appeared before you, would you still say "nonsense?" And sorry to disappoint, but I do not "hate" anyone. What I fight against is Organized Establishments like the Corporation Church, in the businesses of making money at any cost, and supporting Terror States like Israel. And I go about exposing these things to anyone who will listen. I have studied your religion for a very long time, and found it wanting. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 10:59 PM by autowrench

For all of you arguing about what he said, here is a list of the top 40 commands by Jesus in the NT.

JESUS' COMMANDS (Top 40)
And here is a short list of things God hates.
At Least 43 Things God Hates

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 11:04 PM by Noncompatible

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by Noncompatible

In a nutshell:
"Conform to our way of thinking or burn in hell, sinner."

Any Christian who says that is doing the Kingdom a great disservice.

Thanks for the offer, but my GPS works just fine without yours, or any other of the thousands out there, idea of a deity.

Better to be "lost" and free than "found" and enslaved.

I never made you any offer. I didn't try to convert anyone. Someone said they were insulted by my use of the word "lost" and I responded.

If you don't mind my asking (and this goes to TheFogHorn as well, who was the one who was originally insulted by my use of the word), what term would you say I should use to describe those who haven't been reconciled to the Father through Christ?
edit on 14-6-2012 by CLPrime because: (no reason given)

I don't know but how about atheist, agnostic, hindu, muslim, buddhist, mormon, scientologist or my personal favorite:
Rational.
I could go on but I think my point is clear.
Just pick one that accounts for over half the world's current population and realize everyone of them with a deity different to yours can equally regard you as "lost".

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 11:12 PM by CLPrime

Originally posted by Noncompatible

I don't know but how about atheist, agnostic, hindu, muslim, buddhist, mormon, scientologist or my personal favorite:
Rational.

Interesting implication - that Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and Scientologists are all rational, but Christians are not. Of course, that's likely not what you meant, but I figured I'd point it out anyway. I certainly wouldn't be allowed to get away with something like that.

Anyway... I would say "non-Christians," but it's so infuriatingly impossible to claim that all "Christians" are truly Christian that I don't even use that anymore. When speaking in church, I typically just say "all those who have not heard or believed the Gospel."

reply posted on 14-6-2012 @ 11:27 PM by Noncompatible

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by Noncompatible

I don't know but how about atheist, agnostic, hindu, muslim, buddhist, mormon, scientologist or my personal favorite:
Rational.

Interesting implication - that Atheists, Agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and Scientologists are all rational, but Christians are not. Of course, that's likely not what you meant, but I figured I'd point it out anyway. I certainly wouldn't be allowed to get away with something like that.

Anyway... I would say "non-Christians," but it's so infuriatingly impossible to claim that all "Christians" are truly Christian that I don't even use that anymore. When speaking in church, I typically just say "all those who have not heard or believed the Gospel."

If you quote, do not cherry pick, it should be beneath you what with being christian an' all. Bad form to insinuate bias in that way. Though I will forgive you. I know many christians enjoy feeling persecuted.

So I'll clarify for you. My choice of word for "god botherers" of any religion : Deluded.