Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Any view that says a preacher should continue to preach even if he stops believing is likely classifying preaching as a job in the world rather than a work in Christ. Preaching to unbelievers and teaching to believers are works done in the name of Christ for the glory and edification of his Kingdom. Anyone who would continue ministering after a fall from Grace is likely doing so only for personal benefit. It certainly wouldn't be a work in Christ any longer...it would become a job like any other.

Case in point, my father. He's about as vocally anti-Christian as you'll find. If I'm preaching, he wants me to be making money at it (though I refuse to steal money from churches). He doesn't even like me preaching in place of the regular minister, because, to him, the minister is just using me to do his job for him. He doesn't understand that it's my work now, as well, to show love and grace to the lost and to edify (and, if need be, rebuke) the assemblies. It's not a job, it's just what I'm here to do.

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for just the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

The preacher, I assume, is going around preaching about his lack of faith so he can do what the hell he likes. No-where in the definition of 'preach' does it say the word is only to be used by religious people.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

reply to post by Screwed


That doesn't really make much sense though.....
If the omnipotent god is real, god knows you are faking it, and you will burn anyways right?

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

So i guess all the religion and people who doesn't pray to the "Son" and "Him" is "Lost"?

What about people and religion BEFORE the "Son" sacrificed himself? Christianity is a young religion.

reply to post by CLPrime


People who don't believe as you do take it as insulting. It is insulting because you are insinuating that there is something missing from their life, or something wrong with them, just because they do not believe as you do. Call it lost, misguided, call it anything, it is still insulting someone else's intelligence, because they don't share the same belief as you do. Does that make sense to you? It's the same thing athiests do when they call people stupid for not having the same disbelief as they do, just stated in a more PC way.

Ive known alot of surface dwellers who basically window shop Christianity, and eventually leave.

For me, ive been thrust into direct mystical experiences of the reality that God exists, that i have pre-existed prior to being on earth, and that i will return to where i came from, the Source.

There are some times in my life that i have wished i could just have normal consciousness and not be directly experiencing God..... in an ignorance is bliss kind of why, whereas before i could sleep around, pound drugs and alcohol, get quick $ from scams and hustles, and generally live the fast life.

Now thats impossible. With my direct experiencing of God, i pretty much see instantly the repercussions of any of the old ignorant actions.

And i too was once an atheist. I understand exactly where atheists are coming from. Its a logic/reason thing. God is an intuition/heart/transcendence thing.

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

I am too familiar with the rote of Christian responses for them to have any impact on me.

You are right in that all ancient Hebrews were at one point all in Yahweh's presense.......camped at the base of a volcano called Mount Sinai.

Originally posted by luciddream

So i guess all the religion and people who doesn't pray to the "Son" and "Him" is "Lost"?

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

The apostle Peter said, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

The apostle Paul said, "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:9-11).

What about people and religion BEFORE the "Son" sacrificed himself? Christianity is a young religion.

People who lived before Christ were saved by him just like people who live after.

Hebrews 10:4 says that sacrificing animals, as the Israelites did, didn't save anyone.
"It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

Romans 3:20 says that obeying the Law, as the Israelites did, didn't save anyone.
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."

In fact, we find that sin was left unpunished before Jesus came:
"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood — to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished — he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus" (Romans 3:25-26).

And, when Jesus came, he immediately established his authority to forgive sin:
"When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, 'Son, your sins are forgiven'" (Mark 2:5).

Even on the cross, Jesus had power to save (Luke 23:39-43).

All of this is done through faith by the Grace of God:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8).

People before Christ were saved the same way as they are now - through faith, by Grace. The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 outlines the faith of those who lived before Christ. It's in Christ that their faith - and ours - is made perfect.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by CLPrime

 

People who don't believe as you do take it as insulting. It is insulting because you are insinuating that there is something missing from their life, or something wrong with them, just because they do not believe as you do. Call it lost, misguided, call it anything, it is still insulting someone else's intelligence, because they don't share the same belief as you do. Does that make sense to you? It's the same thing athiests do when they call people stupid for not having the same disbelief as they do, just stated in a more PC way.

Some might take it as a compliment. Some people enjoy being "free" from God and his authority.
For me, I said "lost" because Jesus used the word to describe those he loved who had wandered away.

Luke 15:1-7
"Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, 'This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.' Then Jesus told them this parable: 'Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, "Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep." I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.'"

reply to post by smyleegrl


I'm certainly not one to judge, I have belief in a "higher power" but not one that I can easily be defined, I suppose I'm sort of a pagan, with Buddhist ideals. However, as an outsider, I can't help but wonder why the lack of conviction? I thought those that believed in the bible/Christianity were taught to blindly follow, I believe they call it faith. I am by no means judging, however, I've been told by Christians that the only way to be excepted into heaven is to have faith. That being said, I thoroughly encourage this man to help people feel more comfortable about their beliefs, however a Christian God may not be so forgiving and so in that light he may be damning people to hell for all eternity if he's wrong. I'm not saying I agree with that statement, but being a man of science I'd be ignorant to ignore it's possibility.

reply to post by autowrench

Yes, the Religious Bible Believers are running scared. Their book is being examined under the proverbial microscope, and people are waking up to all of the lies and BS being preached to them laden with fear and destruction. People are seeing the dead, ghosts, which makes them certain there is life after death, and seeing Alien Craft in the skies, with disputes Bible teachings. I have never in my life met and talked to a Christian who did not have the fear in their eyes.

Maybe it was something in you they saw that made them afraid? (even so, I think once again you resort to exaggerating)

Maybe its time that your beliefs be looked at under a proverbial microscope to prove if there is any more "truth" to them as the bible.

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

So i guess all the religion and people who doesn't pray to the "Son" and "Him" is "Lost"?

What about people and religion BEFORE the "Son" sacrificed himself? Christianity is a young religion.

Before? The very small clan of nomads used to slit animals' throats at the base of a volcano called Mount Sinai in Midian, otherwise known as Saudi Arabia...the most volcanic place on earth and part of the 'holy land', which is 'holy' due to it lying along a techtonic rift where two continents are pulling apart. The rift runs down through the Red Sea, with is underwater volcanoes, and through Africa, which explains the existence of many Jews in Ethiopia.

Ooops.....did I digress?

Originally posted by luciddream

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for a the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

Any person in God's creation who has not found the Way to the Son who died for the world is "lost." It's not an insult...it's a recognition that we were all originally in God's presence, but that we have all wandered away from him. We're all lost. It's just that, now, we have the opportunity to be reconciled through Christ.

So i guess all the religion and people who doesn't pray to the "Son" and "Him" is "Lost"?

What about people and religion BEFORE the "Son" sacrificed himself? Christianity is a young religion.

oh you mean devil worshipers? we do not count.

Originally posted by TheFogHorn

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Any view that says a preacher should continue to preach even if he stops believing is likely classifying preaching as a job in the world rather than a work in Christ. Preaching to unbelievers and teaching to believers are works done in the name of Christ for the glory and edification of his Kingdom. Anyone who would continue ministering after a fall from Grace is likely doing so only for personal benefit. It certainly wouldn't be a work in Christ any longer...it would become a job like any other.

Case in point, my father. He's about as vocally anti-Christian as you'll find. If I'm preaching, he wants me to be making money at it (though I refuse to steal money from churches). He doesn't even like me preaching in place of the regular minister, because, to him, the minister is just using me to do his job for him. He doesn't understand that it's my work now, as well, to show love and grace to the lost and to edify (and, if need be, rebuke) the assemblies. It's not a job, it's just what I'm here to do.

Please don't call me 'lost'. That is insulting. Isn't it usually the drunks, the porn addicts, the serial cheats who find god and stick with him due to not wanting to be 'lost' again? Are you sure the term 'lost' is not meant to be for just the people living 'on the fringe' and not for all non-believers?

The preacher, I assume, is going around preaching about his lack of faith so he can do what the hell he likes. No-where in the definition of 'preach' does it say the word is only to be used by religious people.

edit on 14-6-2012 by TheFogHorn because: (no reason given)

He might think you bossing him around is insulting. Maybe he considers unsolicited advice insulting? Now you have to apologize to eachother. Goodness people are too easily offended these days.

Originally posted by autowrench



Their book is being examined under the proverbial microscope, and people are waking up to all of the lies and BS being preached to them laden with fear and destruction. People are seeing the dead, ghosts, which makes them certain there is life after death, and seeing Alien Craft in the skies, with disputes Bible teachings. I have never in my life met and talked to a Christian who did not have the fear in their eyes.

Wow. Your passionate hatred for Christians is palpable. And you talk a sh1tload of nonsense - excuse the language, but I get really bloody angry when I read uneducated tripe like this, which is clearly designed to make you look 'cool' in front of the other kids..

I have no fear in my eyes, but you've not met me, have you? My preacher never ladens anything with fear and destruction. You seem to have had an experience or two with some questionable Christians back in the day, and this has sullied your opinion of the lot of us.

Your comments about ghosts and UFOs being relevant to the bigger picture of whether God exists, are nonsense.

There are plenty of references in the Bible relating to mediumship, spirit contact, possible extraterrestrials and UFOs. The point that comes across for me, is that a lot of the 'occult' subjects of this world are forbidden/ advised against in the Bible - because they can have VERY negative consequences for the practitioner.

I'm a Christian, baptised in water and Spirit, but I believe in all manner of things that most Christians will shy away from out of fear and misunderstanding, such as UFOs, secret bases in Antarctica, possible covert continuation of the Third Reich, life on the Moon, on Mars, elsewhere in the Universe (many Christians claim that all aliens are demons - I completely disagree with that stance).

There are demonic powers masquerading to the US government as aliens, there are Satan-worshipping 'illuminati' types who run the global politik-show. There are some musicians and film stars who have made a pact with Satan to achieve success. There are technologically/ stalking-induced mental illnesses - the people who suffer them are in effect victims of a form of ritual abuse.

The list goes on. Stop presuming that all Christians have the same closed-world-view.

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

In Jeremiah 33:3, YHWH says:

''Call on me, and I will show you great and mighty things - secret things, of which you had no former knowledge''

I've followed this commandment, and God has been faithful to the promise, having started to reveal certain things that otherwise I would have had no way of knowing for certain.

*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

As one philosopher puts it:

''There are more things in Heaven and Earth...[autowrench]... than are dreamt of in your philosophy.''

Perhaps find another hobby, one that doesn't involve bashing a section of the demographic as often as possible simply because of their religious convictions. I've seen you do it time and again on ATS, and it's as bad as homophobia in principle.

And for reference - no true Christian is homophobic.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


Would Jesus have given his blessing for a gay man to have gay sex?

Matthew 15:24 has always bothered me.

24 But He answered and said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Matthew 15:24 has always bothered me.

24 But He answered and said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Lots of people were offended by Christ's teachings. See His parable of the vineyard.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Matthew 15:24 has always bothered me.

24 But He answered and said, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

That verse always bugged me a little bit too. Of course the whole section shows that Jesus does finally help the woman. Maybe He wanted to teach his disciples that a parent's love for a child is greater than pride?

The Faith of a Canaanite Woman

21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

27 “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

28 Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.

Faith of the Canaanite Women

reply to post by smyleegrl


Sad story and it is no wonder why you have lost faith not one school teaches the bible properly , every single last one teaches a corrupt erosion of Genesis . The bottom line is if you do not have an understanding of the beginning how can you understand the end .

I will give you a quick example of what they did not teach you , the first verse of the bible states God created the heavens and the earth period , that's a done thought that happened million and millions years ago.

Verse two of Genesis states........ and the earth was void and without form ............... The word was is the Hebrew wor Hayah which means to become and not was so the earth became void and without form and the spirit of God moved on the face of the waters .

This verse is describing the destruction of the earth by a great flood , we all lived on earth with God in spiritual bodies probably for millions of years until Satan rose up against God with 1/3 of us . This is why in verse 1:26 of genesis God says let us make man in our image and our likeness and the next verse God tells us To REPLENISH the earth.

The story of Genesis is the story of recreation not creation . They also tell a big lie when it comes to the flood of Noah . The old testament was written in Hebrew and to find the whole truth you need to go back to the original language . Satan has a controversy withGod and this world is Satans for now , to bad you have fallen into his lies.