Thoughts on holocaust denial.

To re-itterate for anyone who was too lazy to read the entire OP...I asked for people's oninions on whether they think holocaust denial should be considered a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment...I provided links for further reading.

There's no disputing the fact that denial of the holocaust is viewed as a crime in some crountries...only an idiot would dispute that.

Again...for anyone too lazy to read the entire OP - I also asked others what teir own personal opinion of the holocaust was...do they believe or doubt it. Dunno why people jump in and respond...asking stupid questions that were addressed in the OP...and do it with an air of arrogance.

This is a real situation that anyone can research and find information about...he's right about one thing, this thread is dead - go back to the "Do you feel it?" nonsense...every time I visit ATS I edge ever closer to deleting my account for the simple fact that every single time I come here I see interesting, relevant threads be largely ignored while some nutter bangs on about the galactic federation of nincompoops coming to make everything better.

Humans are doomed because we don't want to work and better ourselves...we mostly want to sit back and wait for some alien race to come strolling along and wave a magic weand, making it better for us.

I'm off to bed...thanks.

reply to post by samerulesapply


I don't think it should be illegal just like it shouldn't be illegal for anyone to discuss something.

TextIt's a touchy subject and one not many people seem prepared to debate, people have been arrested, charged and imprisoned for simply believing the holocaust never happened...so what? Who cares what others believe...what good does persecuting them do? Where does it stop? People blindly accept it as a crime and say nothing, is it a crime? To harbour such views I'd say no...to express them, that's a different matter...

reply to post by samerulesapply


The same people that deny the holocaust are the same ones that prosecute the Jews in one fashion or another , the fact they deny a well documented act to erase a people from the face of the earth deserves this type of response . This is why I see no problem with Israel stopping Iran from trying to finish where Hitler left off.

Originally posted by WP4YT
I don't know if the holocaust did or didn't happen because I wasn't around during that time. But show me proof that it did happen. There's no proof out there other than eye-witness stories, which if you actually read them, seem pretty far fetched. All sorts of tales ranging from holocaust victims escaping and hiding in a cave and living for 2 years with no food or water by sucking on a rock, or kids hiding in a haystack 6 stories tall while they watched the gestapo gun down their entire village. When reading it, it seems like fiction in the fantasy genre.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying I've yet to come across any proof that it did. IMHO I think the whole thing [holocaust] was grossly over-exaggerated or downright made-up as an excuse for our government to drag us into WWII and attack Germany. Same damn thing that happened in 2003 with Saddam's "WMD" that never turned up after we invaded. Of course the winners write the history books, and we were the winners, so we will never know for sure otherwise.

OP excuse me in advance for this response , the above response has to be one of the most ignorant , uneducated ,out and out stupid responses to any thread I have ever read . If this is look into the intelligence that has come out of our schooling systems the Gd help us . No proof , I did not see it so it did not happen so it is safe to say that no history you have not observed has happened and eye witness testimony and photographic evidence along with documents from the perpetrators is good enough evidence . WOW talk about ignorance is bliss , you have set a new standard of low here at ATS.

reply to post by samerulesapply


Holocaust deniers are not denying that it happened, just that there's something wrong with it.

It happened. Try telling the family members of those families that were killed or liberated in that event. It really is pretty disturbing actually.

The film and pictures should be evidence enough for people who think it didn't happen. Logic and common sense say that.

-SAP-

Oh, I usually avoid participating in the hot subjects, but this thread is so important and well-presented. The purpose of ATS is, if I understand it correctly, about "denying ignorance" and providing a forum for open discussion of subjects.

This subject needs the open and honest discussion you are sincerely asking for. When a subject, any subject, is made a heresy to question, the questioning mind naturally wants to know why. When we are not allowed to question without being shouted down and called names, there is cause for suspicion. Honest and calm discussion works wonders, and I hope this thread will achieve that.

My personal view on the subject is that there were many who suffered in WWII and all of it was tragic. It's not right to showcase the sufferings of some at the expense of the others, or at the expense of other perspectives or the truth. I take a fairly broad view of the scope of the scene from a historic perspective rather than an emotional one.There was far too much propaganda surrounding both the war itself (including the causes) and the years following- political agendas make a lot of profit from manipulating war weary hearts.

The most troubling thing about WWII is that it still casts such a long shadow over the world today. We cannot afford to avoid discussion of it or continue to blindly repeat anything just because we've been instructed to. What will we find if we honestly investigate it all ? We simply won't know unless we do. Questioning is not denying- denying is a conclusion, questioning is just seeking information. Only lies are threatened by calm questioning, the truth only benefits. So we've nothing to worry about, eh ?

Every conflict in human history has many stories to be told and many truths to be discovered. No human conflict should be oversimplified to a "good v evil" caricature - things are never that simple. We should all seek to understand all sides of conflicts, so that we may improve our own perspectives. This is why history needs to be revisited often, and with a calm and open mind. This is how we learn.

Oh, and here's an interesting story:

chronicle.com...

So much to learn about that era that we just didn't hear about in school.

I already gave my comments on a previous post about my views on the holocaust, the op asked if people should be arrested for denying the holocaust, obviously not as it simply creates sympathy for the denier. I think what the op is getting at is he believes the holocaust happened, he has no reason to think otherwise, yet he disaproves of arrest for deniers. This illustrates how persecution of ideas is abhorred even if you do not believe in the idea. Which begs the question, why persecute someone for a belief? Obviously because they have something to hide and feel threatened by those speaking out against the holocaust.

The Holocaust happened, there is enough evidence to establish that. The real question becomes whether the Official Story (OS) is a correct representation of events that took place in the relevant time period. Regardless of your views, I think it is a disgrace that people can face persecution for merely questioning an historical event. It's true that some people who question it do so for the wrong reasons, but this is not exclusive to the topic of the Holocaust. It is paramount that we examine and analyse events of the past so that we can better prepare for the future. The truth cannot be harmed from intense scrutiny, only lies.

Having actually met some Holocaust victims and been to one of the death camps I will say that those who deny the holocaust do so because:

A) They are extremely stupid
B) They are bigoted anti Jewish morons not worth bothering with

But it is usually:

C) Both

I have zero time for these morons.. They are entitled to their views, but as one of the fools found out from me a few years back.. So am I.. Hopefully his broken nose will serve him a lesson..

Why need Israel? I remember reading somewhere that Stalin had actually offered them a hugechunk of land in Siberia so he could boost numbers in his army.

Also, why all the fuss? So 6 million Jews died? (IMO that number is laughable) Compare to the 100 million Stalin killed and 40 million lost in Europe, Asia, Africa that number is but a drop in the ocean.

Also, that was from all over Europe not a single nation. Ireland has had worse done to it over the centuries. Sh1t, we lost well over 4 million people during the Famine of the 1840's and that was out of a total population of about 10 million. It wasnt a famine that killed us. It was the British imposed holocaust that did. Hundreds of thousands forced to work jobs like repairing roads, making clothes just for some food? Especially after being told you can never see your wife/daughter again? (sound familiar?).

So although the Holocaust was terrible I highly doubt the number is accurate or the way emphasis is put on the Jews when in fact anyone who spoke out was arrested.

the problem really is:

the lack of evidence and just plain false evidence supporting the hollowcost
(Like the lack of buried bodies or the changing signs at auswich to a fraction of their numbers while the total remains the same....?)
and all the first hand accounts that turn out to be frauds
( like Ely Weasle won't show his tat to the Jews that survived the "death" camps because they know
HE IS A FRAUD! )

thats the problem
labeling it denial is the last refuge of the scoundrel

like man made global warming deniers...
or 911 is a falseflag deniers
and we all know what kind of filthy low lifes they turned out to be

take the USS LIBERTY for instance
the perpetrators of which support this un evidenced hollowcost story...or the gulf of Ton-kin which never happened that myth is also supported by Hollowcost supporters...

the insane bailouts to the same foreign bankers that put Hitler in power
those bankers Publicly support the hollowcost story too

no wonder people are beginning to question this story...
it STINKS!



Take Jew George Soros who helped steal the jews money and give it to the Jew rothschilds
Considering all the people killed and all the things stolen which is justified by the story of the hollowcost
people who support this fraud should probably all get the gas chamber

before they kill and steal again

*shakes his head sadly*
Guys, it happened. My people did it, we don't deny it.

We KNOW it.

There are lots of witnesses. As I said in another thread about half a year ago, my grandfather was in the SS - the books we found in his house could only be thrown into the bin, they were really the ugliest, most racist garbage you could imagine. Those people in the SS really THOUGHT so about the jewish, those "Herrenmenschen"-thinking was REAL. There is no doubt that you could have found enough intelligent, brave, quite normal men willing to push the button to the gas chambers at that time, they were completely on par with a furious anti-semitism.

There is even no point in denying it.

This is like you denying having slaves up to the 18th century.

reply to post by samerulesapply

I asked for people's oninions on whether they think holocaust denial should be considered a criminal offence, punishable by imprisonment...

I think holocaust-denial is simply fail. I don't intend to sound mean, but I can't take holocaust-deniers serious at all. I'm amazed such people know how to breathe but beyond that, if these people were honest with themselves, they would know they are ignorant of history or not well read into history. They would also know that instead of properly researching history, they go to dubious sites - instead of the library.

What I also find backward if I may say;

There are arguments that go like this: "What about the many others that died?" "Wasn't only Jews"...that eventually spiral into holocaust denial... on one side these "deniers" are mad about the fact that they perceive people not thinking about other victims of the war. While on the other side, in doing so, they themselves ignore the Jewish victims.

Once again, go to your library, pick up some books about world war 2 and read.

Originally posted by EvanB
Having actually met some Holocaust victims and been to one of the death camps I will say that those who deny the holocaust do so because:

A) They are extremely stupid
B) They are bigoted anti Jewish morons not worth bothering with

But it is usually:

C) Both

I have zero time for these morons.. They are entitled to their views, but as one of the fools found out from me a few years back.. So am I.. Hopefully his broken nose will serve him a lesson..

bull
as the ex atourney genearal PIERRE BLAIS said at the tribunal of Zundle when the top gas chamber expert presented his findings for the defence..re the LACK of cyanide residue and the proven construction of certain chambers AFTER THE WAR
"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE"

so again to your post I say
BULL




"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE????

Elie Wiesel cons the world
a website dedicated to exposing the false testimony of the world's most famous holocaust survivor

www.eliewieseltattoo.com...

there is pictures for the less quick readers

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by EvanB
Having actually met some Holocaust victims and been to one of the death camps I will say that those who deny the holocaust do so because:

A) They are extremely stupid
B) They are bigoted anti Jewish morons not worth bothering with

But it is usually:

C) Both

I have zero time for these morons.. They are entitled to their views, but as one of the fools found out from me a few years back.. So am I.. Hopefully his broken nose will serve him a lesson..

bull
as the ex atourney genearal PIERRE BLAIS said at the tribunal of Zundle when the top gas chamber expert presented his findings for the defence..re the LACK of cyanide residue and the proven construction of certain chambers AFTER THE WAR
"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE"

so again to your post I say
BULL

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE????

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Seriously you are just a hate filled idiot which is very evident by your responses , my friends parents had the tattoos from the camps . My father helped liberate them and said it was the worst thing head ever witnessed and he fought from Africa to Italy to France all the way to Germany and then again in Korea so for him to label thisthe worst it was bad.

"If I am asked, "Could you give from the UJA moneys to rescue Jews, 'I say, NO! and I say again NO!"
Izaak Greenbaum -- head of Jewish Agency Rescue Committee
February 18, 1943
Addressed to the Zionist Executive Council

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

sure there was a holocaust
commited by the zionists who created Israel
not only on the real Jews...
but on the whole world (what, over 70 million dead in ww2?)
( it has been proven the decendants of the biblical hebrews are the Palistinians
so this standard myth as perpetrated just perpetrates and continues holocausting of the real Chosen people

the supporters of the myth as stated only attempt to hide the true perpetrators of the crime from scrutiny so the perpetrators can continue to murder defencless innocents all over the world and steal their resources

as I said they are the people who deserve the death penalty
not the people who are standing up for the truth and humanity

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by EvanB
Having actually met some Holocaust victims and been to one of the death camps I will say that those who deny the holocaust do so because:

A) They are extremely stupid
B) They are bigoted anti Jewish morons not worth bothering with

But it is usually:

C) Both

I have zero time for these morons.. They are entitled to their views, but as one of the fools found out from me a few years back.. So am I.. Hopefully his broken nose will serve him a lesson..

bull
as the ex atourney genearal PIERRE BLAIS said at the tribunal of Zundle when the top gas chamber expert presented his findings for the defence..re the LACK of cyanide residue and the proven construction of certain chambers AFTER THE WAR
"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE"

so again to your post I say
BULL

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

"THE TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE????

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Seriously you are just a hate filled idiot which is very evident by your responses , my friends parents had the tattoos from the camps . My father helped liberate them and said it was the worst thing head ever witnessed and he fought from Africa to Italy to France all the way to Germany and then again in Korea so for him to label thisthe worst it was bad.

right
Well aint you a real swinger
I posted references ( from Jewish sources even with pictures even )
you are just rude
and wrong

who's your daddy?
wLIE weasel?