Hybrid Communist society

I have seen several recent threads started about communism and how awesome it is for humanity.

Well to our communist friends here: I applaud you because it appears that most of you here are choosing to become a communist because you think its a better life for everyone and everyone will be equally treated.

Although, I totally disagree with communism as a viable solution because of human nature IMO it does not appear that anyone's intentions here appears to be evil in nature. Instead we all have different opinions on how to run a utopian society, but it also appears to me that all our goals are in line with trying to find a better way for humanity. Thats worth something

With that said, why not start living in a hybrid communist community? I'm not talking about China,Cuba,etc since so many communist don't believe it to be a true form of communism or communism at all. I'm talking about starting a communist community where you currently reside. Almost like the Quakers in the USA.

For example in the USA. There is no law that I'm aware that says you can't get together as a group and buy goods an services and live together on property that you own? You could even go as far as creating a communist corporation where each Comrade can donate ALL there existing properly to the corporation. Then you have a board on that corporation that handles the acquisitions,management resources,food and distribution of property to the individuals . The board decides what and how much land to buy , who and what jobs are to be performed and by who. The Comrade do their job and the money they earn go backs to the corporation and the board equally distributes it to the community.

You could start small and if successful expand from there.

However, this could not work for a true capitalist , since they don't believe in giving away their personal property nor having someone else manage their wealth. However, this shouldn't be an issue for a communist.

My purpose is to see the feasibility and the drawbacks if any to this hybrid communism versus what some here call true communism . Sure it won't be a true communist society but that is not your intentions. You are not choosing to be a communist to be a communist , instead you believe in the communist ways of everyone being equal and no private ownership or monetary influences among society. With this hybrid version of communism the comrades don't worry about the money as it goes directly to the corporation (state).

also has this ever been attempted? just food for thoughts and I'm not belittling you or making a joke.
Just curious to see why it wouldn't work or would work and the difference between the true communism?

HAHAHA yea right! Then the authorities find out what your up to and BAM! Your top of the domestic terrorist list! LOL... I know you mean well, but that is sooo not practical!

I ironic thing is, when the *evil* plan of NWO comes to its final (if we allow it), non of us will have any freedom any way, and we will rely on the government and corps for *everything*.

Looks how there outing the middle class and gradually making everyone reliant on that state any way.

Is the west already turning into a facist communist nation? How bloody *ironic*

This is why I think we should give up trying to lable ideals lol.

reply to post by interupt42

With that said, why not start living in a hybrid communist community? I'm not talking about China,Cuba,etc since so many communist don't believe it to be a true form of communism or communism at all. I'm talking about starting a communist community where you currently reside.

We already have that. It's called NYC, Chicago, Detroit, LA and let's not forget about Oakland. Im sure there is one I forgot.

Interesting thought though.

I agree that communism as we historically, and presently, know it is a failure. The underlying notion, however, is something the world need to re-examine. A hybrid is an interesting concept that I've been bouncing around in my head for some time now too.

The first hurdle is public perception: because of the demonizing of communism back in the fifties, even the noble notion of socialism has been severly damaged. Socialism, in essence, is everybody in a community working towards the betterment of evryone else.

Think of it as an extension of the traditional family unit. Mom and Dad work their butts off to provide for their children, who then play an increasingly larger role in the family until it is their turn to raise their own kids and help care for their parents as they grow older. If everyone is working towards making the family more prosperous, then everyone benefits.

Now put that into modern, societal terms. If the traditional Mom and Pop role were translated to governent and business leaders, and the childs role was traslated to that of the emerging workforce, the middle class, and the disadvanteged, then we begin to understand the analogy. Government and business leaders would be better served to invest significant amounts of money towards education, public housing and meal programs, and infrastructure.

What we would see over a generation or two is that the functional workforce would increase, and productivity, research and development would go through the roof. We can end homelessness and provide for every hungry person in the world if we marginally reduced the world's defence budgets.

Many will say, "screw the poor! They're just leaches of society." Something most of these peop[le don't realize, however, is that there are many, many very smart people who never got to go to school, or had to drop out to help their family put food on the table.

If we, as a global society, decided to embrace the notion of socialism, then we could eradicate world poverty and allow every brilliant mind in the world to be nurtured.

It can be argued that capitalistic greed is the root of most of the world's poverty. It can also be easily argued that most of the visable crime we are afraid of in our daily lives (theft, mugging, drug abuse) has it's roots in poverty. We can therefor deduce that capitalism has fosterd poverty crimes.

If we can get our heads around the notion that socialism is not evil, and pure capitalism is steering us away from progressing not only as a society, but a species, then we may have hope for the future of our grandchildren.

i believe we aren't being taught the tools to succeed in a capitalist society.

we aren't taught that we can negotiate prices and haggle, even in wal-mart. most people see the price and automatically pay it, even if they are going to lose badly in a deal.

in a capitalist society it's all about winning the deal and both sides walking away having profited. sometimes, no matter how badly you want something, you have to walk away empty handed. in the long run you'll have learned something and be stronger for it.

most people think the solution to bad service is to scream their lungs out, which would only end up with you being arrested.

refusal to pay a restaurant tab until the problem is solved is the real solution.

point is schools are failing kids badly and are not teaching them to succeed in a market environment. they aren't even being taught that they can open their own business and work for their own selves.

it's usually the drop outs that learn this and end up opening their own firms and companies.

reply to post by Sinny


I agree with the most of what you said and it would have some huge hurdles, but we already have a communist party in the US and I don't think they are labeled as terrorist. Although I did try to go to their site www.cpusa.org and it acted rather strangely and it newer did load. hopefully they didn't put me in the terrorist list.


However, It would be a legal US corporation or legal private entity. It would be like an Amish community but the corporation holds all the assets.

Originally posted by sheeplearepeople


If we, as a global society, decided to embrace the notion of socialism, then we could eradicate world poverty and allow every brilliant mind in the world to be nurtured.

If we can get our heads around the notion that socialism is not evil, and pure capitalism is steering us away from progressing not only as a society, but a species, then we may have hope for the future of our grandchildren.

You got to crawl before you walk and run. It appears more logical to me to try to expand peacefully from a small successful community to a larger one then try to convert a country or global society. You have most of the capability to create this communist society in the somewhat FREE world without having to break the law or force your believe in others. If successful you will have people coming to you and it will grow on its own. I suspect that is not what will happen, but I don't believe in communism.

I biggest hurdle I see with my solution is the same hurdle on why communism won't work on any scale. That hurdle is human nature and the lack of motivation without without force.

You have the capability to legally start or at least try at a hybrid communist society, but what I suspect you don't have or won't be able to get enough of is the doctors,engineers and other citizens that would be willing to give there wealth to the state (corporation). In addition the hybrid or true communism will have a difficult time keeping those type of skilled labors from deporting to other countries who would treat them better than a communist society. So eventually I see force and violence as the method to keep skilled labor from deporting.

Originally posted by interupt42

also has this ever been attempted? just food for thoughts and I'm not belittling you or making a joke.
Just curious to see why it wouldn't work or would work and the difference between the true communism?

Yes, in the 1970's...and often.

Most of those efforts ended with someone running off with everyone's contributed money..or declaring themselves god...or mass suicide...or uglier things.

Nice sentiment, but it doesn't work out often.

reply to post by Indigo5


Not surprised that someone else thought of it nor the outcome. I was hoping to hear the counter arguments from the communists and how would they prevent the same thing from happening when trying to implement communism?

reply to post by interupt42


How horribly pessimistic. I may differ from the OP in scale and specific vision. My idea would first see the democratically elected government initiate social programs that would house and feed everyone, ensure proper health care, and provide every child with not only with an education, but the highest standard of education through to university.

The basic premise here is that the community/society/nation/global community takes care of everyone. With this model you'd have a healthy, highly educated, and low crime society. These are all important components of a thriving society on any scale.

What I'm describing isn't really communism, but communism as we know it doesn't really deserve it's name. The important part to get out of my words is that we can make this vision happen if we collectively tell our elected representatives that it is our wish. If more young people started becoming active voters, and we collectively rallied for the things that are important to our society, then we the people can make great changes without any kind of violence on either sides part.

reply to post by sheeplearepeople


What you are describing is more effective version of democratic socialism. All Democracies have elements of socialism, otherwise thier would be no benefit to becoming a nation...fire-fighters, public roads, defense etc. etc.

Most European Democracies, having the benefit of being younger than the USA, took the opportunity to include healthcare, higher education, extended maternity/paternity leave etc.

This isn't communism...and it is only socialism in a relatively small dose...like fertilizer, creating an envirornment for everyone to be thier most productive and secure in a capitalistic system.

If that fertilizer or "socialism" is extended into the capitalistic equation...providing income etc. innovation atrophies and the human spirit does as well. Struggle in the right envirornment is needed. Walk on crutches for a month and your legs will shrink and atrophy. Starve and become malnutritioned and the same happens...it is balance. Just enough "socialism" as needed to make sure cities don't burn to the ground or that children don't starve...just enough "socialism" to educate our populace and make them competitive in the world...but never too much where life turns bland and unchallenging. Communism does not work anymore than plutocracey.

reply to post by Indigo5

I think my point was that communism is, in many ways, based on socialistic principles. Socialism has been tarnished by the association with the dreaded specter of communism. I hear people on the news (not the smart news shows) speaking about obamacare as a communist policy and how bad that is for the country. My post were an attempt to show how good and beneficial a democracy with major socialist policies can be.

As you pointed out, many countries in Europe have been moving towards this model for years. Now if we can just convince more people back home that socialism insn't actually evil, maybe we can begin to move this country and it's citizens forward

You mentioned that struggle is needed; I agree and that's why I posted this under the heading of a hybrid government, I've observed that communism as we know it has failed. I would argue that Capitalism as we know it has also failed. The blending of these is what I'm proposing, People can get as rich as they want, but the overall strength of the community is the first priority for all it's citizens

Originally posted by sheeplearepeople
reply to post by Indigo5

 

I hear people on the news (not the smart news shows) speaking about obamacare as a communist policy and how bad that is for the country. My post were an attempt to show how good and beneficial a democracy with major socialist policies can be.

As you pointed out, many countries in Europe have been moving towards this model for years. Now if we can just convince more people back home that socialism insn't actually evil, maybe we can begin to move this country and it's citizens forward

Agreed on all your points. My rule of thumb for the right does of socialism in a capitalistic model is whether or not the variable is related to hard work or a willingness to work.

Healthcare should be a no brainer...no one works their way out of cancer...cancer, sickness, auto-accidents etc. have no place in the economic model. They strike the hard working and lazy indiscrimentaly.

Education..Economies that set thier populations up to perform to thier highest potential win...just economic fact.

Of course...police, fire-fighters, national defense...national disaster relief..

Unemployment, food stamps etc. As a temporary measure, yes they are needed. The economic crisis we just suffered was not due to a bout of laziness amongst Americans...it was do to reckless and unchecked investments made by the few...investments made with our retirement...and those responsible got a bailout....while those that lost thier jobs and retirement funds got screwed.

Economies that have robust safety nets that allow it's people to survive economic downturns and return to productivity rather than spiral into bankruptcey and homelessness win in the world economy.

Unemployment and food stamps...yes.

All of that in the same token...capitalism rocks...It is the mix of "socialism" and "capitalism" that makes countires succesful.

reply to post by Indigo5

It's nice to see that there are like minded people out there!

My eutopic vision would go beyond food stamps though, and change welfare dramatically. One of the crippling and downward spiralling properties of poverty is the inherit stress that comes with uncertainty about: where your next meal is coming from, paying rent, or being a vicitm of crime. By removing this stress, we as a society can remove many of the pressures driving poor people to commit crime, and nurture a sense of health and security among all levels of our communities.

I propose that everyone in the country is provided with that basic sense of security. Essentially, everyone is housed, and everyone is fed. Healthcare for everyone is a given. The quality of education would be the same in all communities. There are many more aspects to this vision, but I'm still working out the ideas and problems to many of them. I'll get into my ideas about welfare another time.

a reply to: interupt42

With all the socialism talk of late I figured why not make another attempt at this.

If you are proposing that socialism or communism is a better way to live then why not go start your socialist society with other liked mind people and prove to the world how much better it is?

Start a corporation where every socialist can donate their resources and money too and then let the corporations board of directors decide what they do with the money and resources . The corporations board of directors and the individual stock holders will take care of housing,healthcare, education,etc.

its basically a socialist living under a capitalist society.

a reply to: interupt42

If Bernie and the other socialist millionaires want and believe in socialism so much why don't they just start there own socialist healthcare group?


Why not create a corporation where each Comrade can donate ALL there existing property to that corporation that could in essence work like socialism.

You have a board of directors that handles the acquisitions,management resources, and distribution of healthcare needs to the individuals. Its basically socialism but only for those that want it.

You could start small and if successful expand from there and i bet even the Republicans would want to jump in down the road.