Depopulation is probably the answer. Let’s face facts however as unpleasant as they be. What are t

reply to post by TDawgRex


I believe we have a long long way to go before we have to 'depopulate' the earth. I also doubt war is the way to go about it IF it ever comes to that.

There is plenty of space and arable land for everyone's needs at the moment, it's just that TPTB and Elites that are the currently running the show are the ones screwing it up for the rest of us.

But on the other hand... there has to be a point where the earth can't provide anymore and there isn't enough space for everyone. I'm just wondering how bad it would actually have to get before we starting thinking about depopulation. By then we would hopefully have technology to build settlements on Mars or the Moon?

I'd like to think that we could find a way to keep a stable population without having to resort to war or straight out killing mass amounts of people. Maybe this should be one of the goals of mankind, to find a way to keep a stable population with everyone's needs met! lol... sounds like it could never happen though

reply to post by Blaine91555


I agree with what you have posted. I wasn't being naive, but in the effort to be succinct I may have lost the message.

You are right though…I need to write, read, edit, read trying to construe how someone else would construe it, and edit again. All in the hopes of being understood the first time around.

To the OP:

Many already said it. Do NOT fall for the crapola that the media pulls. hey are in making money through sensationalism. Base truths are very low on their lists of priorities.

Latest numbers from The World-Watch Institute tell us that there is enough land, enough produce, and enough energy sources (including the now burgeoning Solar, wind & wave energy) to feed, clothe and house everyone on this mud-ball..

..however...

The resources are só unequally distributed, that the image is as skewed as it gets. We, in Europe have had over-produce of agricultural goods. The EU pumps MASSIVE amounts of subsidizing into the agriculture sector, and the "over"-production gets destroyed, because they do not want it to be too "cheap" (God forbid that a poor country could buy foodstuffs on the cheap.. cannot have that).. "Milk-Lake", "Butter-Mountain" are mainstays of Eu-jargon. And thats only the EU.

Imagine what could be done on food-production alone if there were some politicians with a longterm vision.

What's more idiotic: destroying 50% of the bio-fuel crops (what a croq!) because no-one wants it, or destroying food, because it would otherwise become "too cheap" Both results of mis-fired EU-bureaucrats' ideas.

Germany sort-of saw the light when they stopped subsidizing bio-fuel crops, and started subsidizing Solar energy. (to the utter chagrin of the super-powerful Agro-lobby in Bruxelles. You, Americans have the oil-lobby "fillibustering"progress, we, in Europe have the Agricultural lobby trying the same, allthewhile pocketing hefty subsidizing for agricultural produce that no-one wants, or even needs)

All I am saying is: do not despair. Press, TV , even The Net never give the whole truth. Only through combining several sources, does one get a realistic picture, and that picture is a lot more positive that the "Doom&Gloom" crowd wants to aknowledge. Positive messages are no fun. (want proof? count the flags for end-time threads... )

World-watch institute. A realistic vision, based on peer-reviewed research: Worldwatch institute. A realistic vision of a sustainable future.

reply to post by dutchmilpo


Many here have given me hope and you have added to it. Thanks!

To me, war is rarely the answer, but I see it coming nonetheless. I'm sorry, but that's just me. I study and read history. I hope I am wrong this time around.

Thanks for the links.

reply to post by TDawgRex


War is already on the way.
Only thís time it's not in Europe. The middle-east is the key.
The "resource wars" predicted in the 80's, have been in full-swing since '91's Desert-Storm.

Desert-Storm also was the trigger for larger upheaval in the ME. Upheaval that hád to come. If America hadn't invaded Iraq, it would have been some other big-player. People high-up were aching (?) for a fight, and Saddam's arrogance was the "yo mama" The West -and a lot of Arab countries, mind You- were waiting for.

The inevitable kladderadatshj of modern culture and Democracy (however flawed, still the least rotten system we tried) contra a continent that had a super-rich elite, but with a political system from the middle-ages...

There was NO way to avoid that. Especially with the influx of modern media in the -somewhat primitive- ME when the Internet exploded onto the world. The sudden connection with societies and political systems só completely alien to the rather unchanging ME, stíll has Aristocracies/ Plutocracies in the ME reeling.

I dare to make a prediction: It will be War, Messy conflicts and Tribal warfare in the Middle East for the coming 10 years, and then it will settle. We, The West will be forced into the role of an arbiter more&more while Kingdoms crumble.
The influence of anti-modernist fraidy-cats like Al Qaida, Muslim Brotherhood etc. will be waning faster that we can imagine, mainly due to the unstoppable power of modern communication. The first signs are already there.
Remember: The louder an animal screams or roars, the more afraid it is, and the loudest roar often ends in a whimper when the animal finally dies.....

Relative rest in the ME will be about 2021, About the same time that oil's role will be seriously diminished in the world's energy systems. It will stíll be there, no doubt here. After all, petrol isn't the ónly product made of oil.

This is not some wild prophesying, but just the result of observing the current surge in interest for- and developments in alternative energy, even by governments heavily indebted to oil-lobbies, and combining that with other things like demographics, connectivity etc.

We are on a very interesting cross-roads here. I firmly believe we will, eventually, take the right way. Yet, it will be tumultuous until then. And nothing happens instantly, especially the changing of a centuries old culture. We are trying to force a paradigm-shift on a continent that's barely out of the middle-ages, one foot in technopolis, one foot in the Middle-Ages.

Europe took centuries of bloody war, and some hefty interference from abroad, before our counts ,barons, kings&queens quit warring with each other at the slightest provocation.

The Middle-East will have the advantage of the s.c. "Law of Stimulating Arrears". They do not need to re-invent the wheel for a stable model of government&society. Europe & America already figured out how to do that a.f.a . possible.
They will find their own way, but, it will take some time.

Instead of controlling population through some crude form of government control, I was hoping an option for interstellar expansion would present itself.

Maybe our technological advancements are arriving just in time?!

Bah... I know "intersteller expansion" is not a likely option. Still, it's fun to imagine.

Originally posted by MuonSpin
Instead of controlling population through some crude form of government control, I was hoping an option for interstellar expansion would present itself.

Maybe our technological advancements are arriving just in time?!

Bah... I know "intersteller expansion" is not a likely option. Still, it's fun to imagine.

Not yet..

But fixing our own mud-ball first, and fairly distribute wealth over the globe through f.i. energy projects, better distribution of food-stuffs etc. should be our priority. Imagine the amount of funds that would becaome available for space-exploration, when we stop trying to kill each-other over food-scraps...

Interstellar-expansion is a no-go anyways, unless we find a way to cheat E=MC², or are véééééééry patient.

Terraforming Mars would make me very happy, though.. And if the new Rover finds water and/or bacteriophages..well.. hold-on to Your hat, this is gonna be wild...

Originally posted by Power_Semi
It's when I read answers like these that I realise how completed uneducated some people are.

The world population in 1900 was approx 1.6 billion.

The world population in 1950 was approx 2.5 billion.

The world population now is almost 7 billion.

It has more than doubled in 60 years (with most of the growth coming from Africa and Asia, and I don't see them slowing down or adopting birth control methods any time soon).

Just how long do you think it will take, considering that population growth is exponential, to get to 10 billion?

Populations don't "level out and stabilise" unless the death rate = the birth rate, which would require what?

That people are dying at a much faster rate, or that people just decide one day to stop having kids.

10 billion will be here before you know it.

Obviously no one likes to read. I've said it about five times throughout this thread about how populations level out and stabilize naturally. Is the reality that nature is self-sustaining too difficult for some?

Originally posted by EllaMarina
It's sad how so many of you think the OP is calling for mass destruction. Are your imaginations that grim? Populations can be controlled and lowered without anyone dying (or offing themselves-- and shame on you all for suggesting it).

When you suggest to control people you are suggesting for war.

If it can be done naturally [which is what happens under the laws of physics, and seems to be a taboo in this thread because the only persons mentioning it are the ones referring to actual science, while the rest are quoting social scientists who are required to publish or else get canned irregardless of their research making sense with little-to-no experimental evidence to back it up], then there is no need for suggesting population control. And it can.

So, yes, when people are to be controlled, our imaginations get grim, and rightfully so. The idea that we shouldn't be offended at this is equally nonsense.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Those who say "ohh yeah, overpopulation is a myth. Pshhh, we can TOTALLY support billions more on this planet NO PROB. It's just the new world order making things up" seem to be in COMPLETE DENIAL about what science is telling us. What these people don't realize is that- just because a reality is terrible, doesn't therefore make it a conspiracy. Of course then they'll bring up a litany of "facts" to back up their desire to believe that we aren't overpopulated, but they are not really facts but wishful thinking while the ship is sinking.

The science is telling us that.

This isn't science [from the link you posted]:

- Other species are subject to the basic ecological law that states that the population of every species increases to the level of its food supply.
- Humans are unique and above this basic law.
- Corollary: Humans behave as if the human population continues to grow simply because we are human.

This is the assumption of the entire slideshow.

1. I don't know of any science that teaches us this.

2. I don't know of any 'ecological law', either. I know the laws of thermodynamics, and they are naturally self-correcting without the requirement of human beings assuming false laws simply because we are human.

The slideshow also assumes a void of ignorance concerning how economics works [which would probably condense the entirety of topics down to half instead of piecemeal understanding through inferior sociological contexts].

I have no doubt anyone who thinks depopulation is an option, believes they will be one of the chosen to carry on. Doesn't work out that way sadly.

If any depopulation plan were to go into effect. We would not know about it. The lists have probably already been made.

Continuity of Government my friends. What a wonderful world we live in.

And that is what we know of, I'm sure those sites would not be used anyways. Why let the world know where you would go into hiding? I'm sure the President doesn't even know where he would be going if the SHTF.

Population control is the answer, not depopulation. The more kids one has the more taxes they should pay. I want a progressive taxation system for big families and rich folks, up to 60% of what they earn each year. This alone will solve all problems in many countries. And absolutely no loopholes or offshoring tolerated. No more annonymous swiss bank accounts or in lichenstein, bahamas, luxembourge, etc.

America is in desperate need of social statism and forced redistribution. If stalin and hitler could accomplish this sixty years ago in germany and russia then we need social cleansing and money availabiity in the west. Where is this dictator???

All you right wingers hed for the hills or the gulags. Your time is running out. Tick, tock, tick, tock :

We all also need to stop thinking of star trek as sci fi and allow it to be reality. I want interstellar travel.

No more priory of sion, illuminati, reptillians, greys INTERFERRING with humans. I look forward to war with them after we get rid of all the rich snobs who are preventing PROGRESS!

If we do not get rid of them then they will get rid of us I am afraid.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Nope.

Overpopulation is a myth. There is PLENTY of a arable land to grow the food we need to sustain our current population growth. There is PLENTY of renewable energy sources that can be used in order for each nation to achieve energy independance.

~Tenth

When you think of overpopulation don't think of numbers. Think of the devastation man is causing throughout the world. Less people = less destruction. More and more animals are going on the endangered species list - because of US! www.earthsendangered.com...

Here's a few of the animals (the list is horrifyingly long!).

Abbott's Booby (bird): Historically much of its former habitat was logged to make way for phosphate mining.

Dwarf Lemur: determining how many individuals are left are now top priorities, especially since much of this region's forests have already disappeared.

Jaguar: Threats include loss and fragmentation of habitat. While international trade in jaguars or their parts is prohibited, the cat is still frequently killed by humans, particularly in conflicts with ranchers and farmers in South America.

Lake Lerma Salamander: Drainage of the marshes destroyed almost the whole Lake Lerma with the consequence that this species became locally extinct in that area. Pollution and the building of dams at the Lerma River in the Almoloya region along the villages Tenango, Santa Maria, Jajalpa and San Pedro as well as domestic consumption lead also to a castastrophic decline of the populations.


In short: Humans SUCK!

reply to post by jiggerj


Not only are there too many humans on this small planet but we are also spoiled to death in terms of wants. I want an expensive watch. I want an expensive vacation. I want a big house with all the luxuries. I want fancy clothes. I want to take 3 showers per day and wash my fancy car at least once per week. I want a big, healthy lawn. I want game entertainment systems so that kids occupy themselves. I want a babysitter so parents can work till they die to afford luxurious life.

Everyone aspires to be wealthy and this in turn allows the super-rich to get away from being active participants in society. They avoid the taxation system with lots of loopholes. The yuppies grew up with this must go to college syndrome and government should ok the loans; they snob everyone else. College should be for the really smart folks not the lazy bums.

Too many demands within a finite system of resources can only lead to devastion. We need a supply based lifestyle and more naturalism. Profit driven by greed encourages overconsumption, then the banks encourage everyone to get loans, etc.

And people stop eating 3 times per day. It is disgusting as hell when people in africa cannot eat a substantial meal even once per week. One meal per day is plentiful unless you work hard and burn the calories. Obesity is becoming a huge problem in the west, especially in america.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The more kids one has the more taxes they should pay. I want a progressive taxation system for big families and rich folks, up to 60% of what they earn each year. This alone will solve all problems in many countries.

These taxes are going to fatten up the central planners of the system, allowing them to produce more and more central planners until a monarchy is established.

Then everyone starves, and those who aren't are either part of the central planning association or in a grave.

America is in desperate need of social statism and forced redistribution. If stalin and hitler could accomplish this sixty years ago in germany and russia then we need social cleansing and money availabiity in the west. Where is this dictator???

Either in the ground rotting or in someone's head, where they belong.

And people stop eating 3 times per day. It is disgusting as hell when people in africa cannot eat a substantial meal even once per week. One meal per day is plentiful unless you work hard and burn the calories. Obesity is becoming a huge problem in the west, especially in america.

All the while here you are using a piece of luxury called a computer when people in africa cannot eat a substantial meal even once per week.

Originally posted by jiggerj
When you think of overpopulation don't think of numbers. Think of the devastation man is causing throughout the world. Less people = less destruction. More and more animals are going on the endangered species list - because of US! www.earthsendangered.com...

With this logic, we should also destroy the Earth because itself is responsible for 100% of all endangered species.

These mass of contradictions are all motivated by one thing and one thing only:

In short: Humans SUCK!

.. all the while joyfully participating in being human.

Conclusion.

Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
The more kids one has the more taxes they should pay. I want a progressive taxation system for big families and rich folks, up to 60% of what they earn each year. This alone will solve all problems in many countries.

These taxes are going to fatten up the central planners of the system, allowing them to produce more and more central planners until a monarchy is established.

Then everyone starves, and those who aren't are either part of the central planning association or in a grave.

Nope. No central planning is necessary since we are not talking about communism at all. You are jumping to the wrong conclusion. Currently people with more dependants PAY LESS than those with more dependants. Under normal circumstances that would be admirable since families need more available income to support the children, BUT 7 billion humans on this little rock and growing means we need to start taking the overpopulation problem seriously.....more so in africa and asia than europe or the americas. The chineese 1 child policy is awesome, now time for everyone else to follow suit. Gradually when things mellow we can go to a 2-3 child policy with tax burdens and jail times serving as adequate detterants. The stupid church hates birth control and abortion and it alone is responsible for many societal problems. I am sorry(actually not) if you don't like the truth, but it needs to be spoken.

America is in desperate need of social statism and forced redistribution. If stalin and hitler could accomplish this sixty years ago in germany and russia then we need social cleansing and money availabiity in the west. Where is this dictator???

Either in the ground rotting or in someone's head, where they belong.

So you rather have a masonic bilderberger dictatorship that hates humankind and treats it like its slave force???

Democracy is ideal when people are not braindead stupid from centuries of brainwashing. Only braindead fools would keep voting for democrats and republicans and hope for change that never comes. Sure we have change, but it is ALWAYS NEGATIVE!

And people stop eating 3 times per day. It is disgusting as hell when people in africa cannot eat a substantial meal even once per week. One meal per day is plentiful unless you work hard and burn the calories. Obesity is becoming a huge problem in the west, especially in america.

All the while here you are using a piece of luxury called a computer when people in africa cannot eat a substantial meal even once per week.

I don't necessarily view computers as luxury items especially since it is one of the cheapest I could afford and with a vista operating system it is a total nightmare. Anyway we are starting to go off-topic here and that is not cool.

reply to post by imherejusttoread

With this logic, we should also destroy the Earth because itself is responsible for 100% of all endangered species.

Ummmmmm, what?

Ack, don't mention interstellar expansion. The thought alone is worth a thousand shivers of horror. All the chaos of human nature, filling up other worlds? The only reason I refuse to call the human race a virus is because I still have hope in its eventual ascension and resulting ability to love and care for our world and each other. Only after than can we trust ourselves to treat a hypothetical second planet well.

Now, before we even start thinking about space travel, we humans will have to accomplish world peace, and it is said that such a thing is impossible (though I'd disagree). The Starfleet Federation ideology is fun to think about, even if planning for it in the midst of a world where its own inhabitants stand against each other is akin to putting the cart before the horse.

Originally posted by MuonSpin
Instead of controlling population through some crude form of government control, I was hoping an option for interstellar expansion would present itself.

Maybe our technological advancements are arriving just in time?!

Bah... I know "intersteller expansion" is not a likely option. Still, it's fun to imagine.

Can't pay taxes if you take a trip to Pluto.

Oh wait, Pluto is just a dwarf planet now. Takes the fun out of a trip there.

Sometimes, to tackle serious problems, it just takes an innovative person to think up a solution. For example, why look for more land when existing farming methods can be expanded - vertically as in multi-level farming. What's that saying, Necessity is the Mother of Invention.