Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Julio

 

I noticed a few other people attributed atheism to a religion,

I think some become cultist and dogmatic, a few weeks ago I went into the atheist room on paltalk, the title at the time was " all god believers are idiots."

Of course I couldn't pass that up,

I wonder why people are like that...why do people feel the need attack other peoples believe. I'm Christian so naturally I believe in God, but I don't go around saying anybody that doesn't is an idiot. I can acknowledge fact there is allot smart atheist out there, but I think allot smart creations too. I would not personally attack someone on their belief systems. Yet allot of people do…wonder why anybody cares what others believe or don't believe in.

reply to post by Tbrooks76

I don't think it's so much about what people believe, but how they try to impose their dogma on others. How would you feel if it was taught in the US schools that the country was first settled by white people, and that the natives and blacks only came there later? It's the same with creation myths. Facts contradict them, but agree with modern synthesis. If you ask me, irrational beliefs have no place in the science class. Now someone will no doubt claim that evolution is not a fact, but fact remains that they can't explain away the mountain of evidence.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

You ARE lying, it's evident throughout this thread where you STILL call scientific throes wild guesses when it's been pointed out to you numerous times that this is false. Doesn't the bible have things to say about those who bear false witness?

First. no atheist can prove a beginning to the universe from nothing. They can theorize and make wild guesses, but there is no proof of something being able to come from nothing.

Second, if you go for the infinite regress theory you have to be able to prove an actual infinite which not even the greatest mathematical minds say is possible to prove. In actual fact, the mathematical school of intuition DENIES actual infinite.

Yes, on some levels there is an evolutionary process, this however, does nothing to prove or disprove the existance of any Creator...

all the atheist can do is theorize and state that someday science will have the ability to find the answers to everything....and ALL atheists worth their weight fully admit that science does not currently have these answers, or even the current ability to find them. (they are simply placing it upon faith that someday will be born very intelligent people who will come up with these answers)

yet those who worship religion seem to blindly think they have all of the answers... it is just ..."The pot calling the kettle black"....

The fact is that neither atheists or the "so called " religious can prove beyond all doubt that they are correct and everyone else is wrong.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

I don't think it's so much about what people believe, but how they try to impose their dogma on others. How would you feel if it was taught in the US schools that the country was first settled by white people, and that the natives and blacks only came there later? It's the same with creation myths. Facts contradict them, but agree with modern synthesis. If you ask me, irrational beliefs have no place in the science class.

edit on 13-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

well I hope that we are currently teaching natives were before whites, thus the name natives..lol
irrational beliefts..huh (sigh)

That there is any debate at all about the existence of God, or any other diety, and arguments about the various interpretations about religious doctrines tells me clearly that there is/are no such being(s). My logic is simple: Shouldn't something as big as the ultimate Truth of the universe be self-evident? Devout believers would state that the existence of their God is indeed self-evident, but a different believer would defend their faith with equal conviction. I don't buy into the whole belief that, "Because I'm right, you must be wrong." The only conclusion: everybody is wrong.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Telling people that we don't have all the facts is NOT a lie. Telling people that we are very small and uneducated in what is going on in the universe is NOT a lie. Telling people on both sides of the discussion to have an open mind because nothing is rock solid in fact is NOT a lie.

I know some still belong to the "Flat Earth Society"... I believe this is an extension of the placebo effect that the mind makes it real even though it is not. I believe that many people are so caught up and blinded by the placebo effect that their brains process information according to the belief system that is programmed in to the brain. That is why 30 percent of Democrats and Republicans blindly follow their political dogma without questioning becaise it is akin to the physical manifestations produced by a placebo drug trial where 30-40 percent of people are cured by a placebo. Just a wacky idea I have.......

I doubt my beliefs often, and while it is my belief that it is a necessary process to establishing the wholeness of my faith, it does wear on me spiritually. Even so, there will always be undeniable truths that a person is unable to move beyond, and even though some might profess to explain mine away, they cannot, because I have considered all of the alternatives. I have influenced many peoples' course of reasoning, just as they have influenced mine, but ultimately, it takes an event to change a persons reasoning. The fact that I have experienced the events that I have, yet I still question my faith, is rather disappointing for me- but those events have left me equipped for times that my faith is teetering. The reason those events are so important?- You can only gain wisdom through first hand experience.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Theories are guesses based on incomplete evidence. Creationist theory .. evolutionary theory .. 'seeding' theory ... all based on incomplete evidence. If there was complete evidence for any one of them, then there would be no serious discussion needed.

Your "interpretation" of the definition of theory is very disingenuous.

the·o·ry/ˈTHēərē/ Noun: A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be...: "Darwin's theory of evolution" A set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based: "a theory of education"; "music theory".

Scientific Theory

The reason the "theory" of evolution is more credible then that of creationism is that it has a plethora of evidence to back it up, and all of these scientific theories are completely possible without the presence of a super natural entity.

RNA World

Miller-Urey Experiment.

Sure there our gaps but that is where Hypothesis and The Schools of Logic come in to play. The evidence for the majority of major scientific theory is backed up with so much evidence, that any new evidence would only change the original theory by small amount.

Gravity is a "theory" but is very very well understood regardless of some information still being a slight mystery.

Do some research on Transitional Forms (unless you already have. Its a very misunderstood subject), get some books by well known peer reviewed scientists on that subject and Evolution in general.

I do not mind people's beliefs (unless they are unethical). But people asserting that a "theory" is any idea based on even the slightest pin prick of evidence (like creationism) is asking for it. "Truth...is not subjective.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by jiggerj

Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."

edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

And you believe from nothing we get the full table of elements, light and heat then life and death and its meaningless. You and your argument is less than childish.


you honestly believe that there is an Noooo-knowing, Nooo-power, Nooo being, NOOOO nothing that created the WHOLE universe, and who doesnt exist in any dimension called anything?"
Facepalm.
Your words are just silly.

Wow! Talk about being brainwashed. You can't even see logic when it's right in your face. And then, you can't even see the good sense in your own statement. Your words are right on the money.

How about Pele, goddess of volcanoes? Prove to us that she doesn't exist. Of course, she doesn't exist, but you can't prove it. Kinda ridiculous to believe in her though, eh?

reply to post by jiggerj


its not about the details in the myths,,, its about the conentation,, the meaning,,,,, if an aware creator created the universe,, it created the volcanoes,, and you and me..... indigenous people made up there own myths and stories, imagining the causes of these natural process' and forces.... regardless of what the indigenous people think or you and i think.,., a creator could have caused the universe to come into existence,, or it could have not.....

Originally posted by hoochymama
Nope. But, maybe my problem is finding someone who questions there FAITH. The argument always used "you cant see Oxygen so how do you know its there". LOL. That means I have a discussion with idiots which isnt fair, cuz in this world the Idiot always wins.

edit on 12-6-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)

Yeah but you can measure / detect oxygen in the air. What do we have that measures/detects God ?

reply to post by NotApplicable


Because the things living in the water are not the water.
You live in your house. You are not the house.

reply to post by Tbrooks76


A lot.
Sorry I had to. With all the talk about smart or not smart Christians or Athiests. ALLOT is not a word. But I see that a lot around here.

reply to post by Julio

yes just once,
i was sitting at a truck stop waiting for dispatch...long story short...an older driver was walking around the truck stop chatting with other drivers...quite common....after a few minutes of chatting he starts talking..nope preaching how the good lord has steered him thru his life...ect ect.."we (humans) are the only organisim on the planet that would make the earth a better place if we were not here".

the aged driver paused,thought about what i had said ...then abruptly left...

the next morning i was having my bacon n eggs when the same driver came,sat down,and thanked me for "opening up his eyes".
he sat for 5 minutes,drank his coffee and left.
I havent seen him since.
was not my intention to trash someones religion or beliefes

reply to post by Tbrooks76


Are you saying the whites were not native to any place ? Where did they come from then ?

I have convinced quite a few people to not be extreme in their beliefs. Religion is not the problem, god is not the problem. Fundamentalism is the problem. This happened about 8 years ago. I was working with a friend of mine writing and recording music. I knew he was religious but didn't realize how extreme he was in his beliefs. Prior to that he had suddenly became religious overnight, realizing the "evil" of his ways and wanted to give his life to Jesus. I've never had a problem with religious people, as 90% of my family relatives are Christians so I didn't really care.

So after a recording session one day, he starts talking about his transition. He pretty much threw away all of his DVDs, music and everything that wasn't directly related to god, including his own personal library of music that HE CREATED when he was younger. He considered any movie with curse words or violence evil and couldn't have them in his house. He canceled his cable and internet. I started talking to him about how I was agnostic and didn't believe in the bible or god. He almost immediately whipped out a Kent Hovind video and put it in the VCR. This was before I even knew who the guy was, or even payed attention to most creation vs evolution debates. I figured, "how bad could this be? He'll talk about god and his religion and the good things about it". Then when it began and he starting talking about 6,000 year old earth and dinosaurs walking with man, I almost lost it. I was laughing so hard, and we got into a big argument about how Hovind was just lying and wasn't actually talking about science. He didn't believe me at first but I kept coming back to his house with scientific stuff (as well as Hovind debunks) to read each day and slowly but surely he began to realize how ridiculous that stuff was. He's still religious, but not nearly as extreme as he used to be. Since then he's been married and divorced and doesn't take the bible literally, but still believes in god.

Fundamentalism is dangerous and should be countered with knowledge whenever possible. People always think its atheists attacking religion when they do this, but it's really for the betterment of mankind and the future of the human race. Knowledge = power. It's not about atheists being right. It's about them understanding science better than somebody who has never picked up a science book, yet has the gall to question it.

reply to post by sheeplearepeople


Or God has many faces.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj

 

its not about the details in the myths,,, its about the conentation,, the meaning,,,,, if an aware creator created the universe,, it created the volcanoes,, and you and me..... indigenous people made up there own myths and stories, imagining the causes of these natural process' and forces.... regardless of what the indigenous people think or you and i think.,., a creator could have caused the universe to come into existence,, or it could have not.....

Why couldnt it just be chemical reactions and simple physics ? Why does an intelligence have to have started the fire ? Oh and we are indigenous people. ( only because you listed them seperatly like they were different from you and I.)

reply to post by kelownacruzer


uh uh, mosquitos. The planet would be a better place without mosquitos. The birds can find other bugs to eat. We dont need em for anything.

reply to post by karen61057


Shouldn't that imply a sense of unity then?