Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
Ego and Arrogance.. Total denial of their own ignorance.. thats like stupid people dont know they're stupid, and NOT funny people don't know they're not funny..

And people who can't sing don't know they can't sing. It's hard to tell them so, and they don't believe it anyway. I like to give those who don't know pointers on getting closer to where they think they are.

reply to post by rhinoceros


My picture is the "coincidence" that Tetragrammaton or "YHWH" even appears and bears a remarkable similarity to the DNA sequencing and structure ACTG,, ... I dont know everything, but i know enough to see the connections in these improbable coincidences. Ive come to my conclusion and self actualization through knowledge and faith, now i realize and am aware of what this BIG God thing is and proud i dont ever have to back, hard to explain in a way thats understandable for all angles English is tricky and depends on YOUR perception of context. like i said we are WITHIN AND OF IT.. if you;ve read the rest of that post, there are more pieces that are incredible coincidences, and if you know anything about Fibonacci it would inspire you to seek for yourself... I see there is some misperception going on with that ONE pic, BUT what about the rest of it????

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

My picture is the "coincidence" that Tetragrammaton or "YHWH" even appears and bears a remarkable similarity to the DNA sequencing and structure ACTG,, ... I dont know everything, but i know enough to see the connections in these improbable coincidences. Ive come to my conclusion and self actualization through knowledge and faith, now i realize and am aware of what this BIG God thing is and proud i dont ever have to back, hard to explain in a way thats understandable for all angles English is tricky and depends on YOUR perception of context. like i said we are WITHIN AND OF IT.. if you;ve read the rest of that post, there are more pieces that are incredible coincidences, and if you know anything about Fibonacci it would inspire you to seek for yourself... I see there is some misperception going on with that ONE pic, BUT what about the rest of it????

Like I said in my last post, I think your picture doesn't even attempt to depict DNA but a Tyrosine (Y) - Histidine (H) amino acid peptide. But I could be wrong. Easy thing to settle as soon as you provide a source for the picture. Anyway, e.g. the obvious phosphorus (P) backbone of DNA is nowhere to be seen in your picture. On the contrary, on the right side of the molecule, the COOH group is a telltale of Carboxy terminal, which is a thing that is associated with amino acid peptides, i.e. nothing to do with DNA.

reply to post by gentledissident


Thats good, ive learned over the years in my approach, when i "woke" up so to speak, i went around telling and enthusiastically explaining to everyone i knew what i found and understood. Saying "How obvious it is" and "why cant they see it, and if only they could realize it we could change the world!" they would hopeless depressively tune me out completely.. ive changed my approach and encourage and plant certain seeds or phrases that are validated later that way even when debates start to loop, they still have information planted that they will not be able to excuse, like Fibonacci stuff, Tetragrammaton, Solfeggio tones, I say things like "Do you know what the sun sounds like?" and how sound creates shape and has a color for each tone.. and if they choose to be interested and seek they will if not, there is nothing to save them from anyway, we really didnt even go anywhere. this has all been a perceived separation we did to ourselves just for the experience. I do believe the shows almost over though. peace will be declared on earth with a worldwide round of applause. Through my studies the ive come to a conclusion, Time is non-linear and that Earth is and Etheric Planet =]]]

reply to post by rhinoceros


okay i get it, you dont get it, that one part, *what about the rest of it?*

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

okay i get it, you dont get it, that one part, *what about the rest of it?*

A lot of baseless new age claims. "Vibration is language of god". Ok. If you want a serious discussion, you actually need to support your stance by providing references and such. I picked the "DNA picture" thing since was doubtful that it even attempted to depict DNA (now almost certain it didn't). That's it really..

reply to post by rhinoceros


okay then thats nice.. good luck.

After going thru 13 pages what I have learned is ...People are going to believe what they want to believe and want is the key word. My signature pretty much sums it up for me too.
So why does it matter what the next person believes....it shouldn't....or are you just trying hard convince yourself? Being on ATS has taught me more about people than I could ever have learned just living in my little town.
I post my opinions on here ..but again they are just my opinions. I personally like to read what every one else is thinking. It would be a very dull world if every one thought exactly alike and we would all be stringing along after one another like sheep.
So now I throw in my opinion and it is just that!
What I have always wondered about and you too, I bet..... is who made God? The usual answer of he has always been, he is eternal..that is not an answer. it is just a placebo. Something had to get him started..unless you want to believe that something is created out of nothing.
Also who can even think about how long God had been around before this Universe was created.? Number of the ages more than likely could not even be numbered. So if God has no time..then why does everyone worry about when the earth was created? If God is infinite..then Then 100 trillion years would not even be a minute on His time scale!!
We pretty much see God the way we see ourselves. getting revenge on the Israelites enemies, killing people that didn't live up to His expectations. Doesn't sound right for a God..does it?
So we want to believe that God didnot create humans before 6,000 years ago. Because if He did...why did he not show himself to those poor souls and waited til man could read and write to send down his inspiration in a book? Don't sound like a God does it?
I don't believe the Bible to be completely inspired by God..too much violence and killing of people for a chosen group. I do believe there is a Creator or Something that did all we see and created life. And it is so much more than what we have been lead to believe. Something so amazing, so magnificent. something we have no words for.
But that is just me and you don't have to agree.

I think people today are inspired too. Being inspired didn't stop with the Bible.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
First we must define what the word evolution means in the context of origins.

There are six stages of evolution in the belief system of the evolutionist. ( Belief and Faith are interchangeable requiring the same energy to fulfill. )

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
If you do not believe this is there or your belief look it up, but just as I believe a super natural creator did it all you must believe that a nothing did it all and since no one was there we both are believing on faith so origins is a religion.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Just as origins with nothing as the hero hydrogen some how creates all the know elements, and let it be said they have never done it in a lab past iron. So once again belief in something that can not be proved.
And elements decaying into something else is the opposite of evolution.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
In all the recorded history of star gazing new stars have never been documented only the lose.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Trillions of dollars have been spent only to discover life comes from life.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory. However, here I might add that remarkable advances have been made during the last few years, including spontaneous synthesis of most or all RNA bases, as well as spontaneous generation of self-replicating autocatalytic RNA molecules, which are widely believed to be the first forms of life on this planet according to the RNA world hypothesis. In other words, life already came from a test-tube in a human devised experiment. It's also safe to say that trillions of dollars were not spent for this research.

Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
No one has ever seen one type of animal give birth to another. Dogs always birth dogs.
And dead bones do not prove evolution;

And only creationists think that the theory of evolution postulates that one 'type of animal' gives birth to another 'type of animal', which of course it does not. For the actual mechanisms of speciation, look here. For evidence of common descent look here.

Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”
This one both the creationist and evolutionist agree upon
You can breed dogs big to small but never out side there range.
This is the one that evolutionist use to prove all the rest as true.

What you call macro is just a lot of accumulated micro. This is an artificial divide.

There for evolution is a junk science.

I believe the correct conclusion is that you're arguing from blissful ignorance. It's probably not your fault. I bet you were taught this ill version of evolution in some Sunday school. I don't lack faith in believing that fundamentalists deceive their young by all the possible means they can think of. Your brainwashing probably began when you were but a young child and likely lasted many years, thus of course it's nearly impossible for you to see the contradicting evidence even when it hits you in your face. It goes against some of your most core believes, or what makes "you". All I can say is that for a minute you should try to drop predisposition and then go through the contradicting evidence even though you "know" that it's wrong.

edit on 14-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

From where I stand they are all types of evolution.
Seemingly you get to qualify what evolution is, that seems a little arrogant. Tell me why they are all not evolution.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
. I picked the "DNA picture" thing since was doubtful that it even attempted to depict DNA (now almost certain it didn't). That's it really..

Chasing rabbits here so lets get back on track.
I am not interested in DNA pictures or spirituality, you think your clever so semantics aside
Explain the
Message sender....message....message receiver within DNA
and how they all came about and know how to communicate independent of each other
Its a simple request.

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
Fibonacci stuff, Tetragrammaton, Solfeggio tones

The Fibonacci sequence and the Mandelbrot set show how math can be used to describe things. Tetragrammatons prove nothing. The Solfeggio frequency set is just another music writing device like I IV V. What do these things mean to you?

Originally posted by addygrace

Originally posted by jiggerj
The best any of us can do is look at how many times a certain condition exists in this universe, and then compare it to what the religious believe. When considering the afterlife it is believed that our energy (whatever kind of energy that may be) lives on. Yet, when we look at all the things that run on energy in this realm we find that: When computers die we know that it is not running somewhere else. No one is watching your television in another dimension after you've thrown it in the trash. When a sun goes supernova it is not shining in heaven. There is just nothing in this realm that offers even the slightest suggestion of an afterlife.

How do you explain people having near death experiences?
Why are human's so intelligent?
Why do we know things about the Universe that is trillion's of light years away?
Why do we know how the origin of the universe expanded?
Why do we contemplate the afterlife?
Why are we in a perfect position in the Universe, to test the sciences?
Why did Jesus come up with the most profound moral rule, when he said to give your other cheek if someone strikes your cheek?

Ask Jesus if he is the truth.

edit on 14-6-2012 by addygrace because: (no reason given)

You do know that some of your questions make no sense or have no logical basis. The Visible Universe ends at 13.4 BILLION LIGHT YEARS. At that point exists the WMAP or in simple terms...a Massive wall of back Ground wall of Microwave Radiation that is within 379,000 Light Years of the BIG BANG. Beyond this...Visible light cannot be seen as this Superheated Ocean of Plasma impedes lights progress. So the Universe is NOT A TRILLION LIGHT YEARS IN SIZE but your statement makes no sense since you said...Why do we know things about the Universe that is a Trillion Light Years away?
The rest of your questions are along that line of illogic as they are questions that are worded inherently flawed.
Split Infinity

reply to post by Julio


In the end it all comes down to beliefs, they differ...
I saw some remarks about talking to stupid people...
No one knows what the great " Truths " of this world really are.

We believe we know and yet it all comes down again to belief.
Arrogance gets you nowhere. Humbleness goes a long way.

The solution is simple really, live and let live, see? If only we all took it like that, tons of (useless) hostility could be avoided.

Deny ignorance but remember stay classy not assy!!

Peace y'allz

Originally posted by NoLoveInFear46and2
No one knows what the great " Truths " of this world really are.

It's the difference between rational and irrational beliefs. One of those types will make you crazy. We need less crazy if we are to function harmoniously as a species. Our frontal lobe and subsequent technology will facilitate our coming together as a colony working for the good of the species. We just need to stop being crazy 1st.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Seemingly you get to qualify what evolution is, that seems a little arrogant. Tell me why they are all not evolution.

It's not my definition, but the generally accepted definition. You can check for yourself from for example here. How many times do they refer to the origin of the Universe, elements, planets, and life? Not even once? If we're free to define things as we wish, then I define God as a Santa Claus like entity that can only exist if every person on Earth has seen it first hand. So I guess God doesn't exist.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Explain the
Message sender....message....message receiver within DNA
and how they all came about and know how to communicate independent of each other
Its a simple request.

Oh I'd love to explain that. However, the thing is that I still have no clue what you're talking about. "Message sender....message....message receiver", what is that? Please use the generally accepted terms to define the problem.

reply to post by borntowatch



The theory of evolution explains the progression and changes of life on Earth over very looooooong periods of time. It doesn't explain how life started. It doesn't explain how the universe came into existence or how galaxies, stars or planets form. It doesn't try to explain anything except how life on Earth has evolved over eons.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Oh I'd love to explain that. However, the thing is that I still have no clue what you're talking about. "Message sender....message....message receiver", what is that? Please use the generally accepted terms to define the problem.

edit on 15-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

I wont link it I think its beyond your knowledge base, time wasting for me.

Even in a thread asking a question about debating, people STILL have to attack science? WHY? What could you possibly gain?

I like to think that I got a Mormon thinking hard, when I asked him if there was any other document written in "Reformed Egyptian", the supposed language of the golden plates on which the Book of Mormon was written.