Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

Originally posted by borntowatch
I have seen no evidence to refute, none.

Did you miss the link? Here it is again. Or you "see no evidence"? In that case, nevermind. You're too far gone..

First paragraph

Evidence of common descent of living things has been discovered by scientists working in a variety of fields over many years. This evidence has demonstrated and verified the occurrence of evolution and provided a wealth of information on the natural processes by which the variety and diversity of life on Earth developed. This evidence supports the modern evolutionary synthesis, the current scientific theory that explains how and why life changes over time. Evolutionary biologists document the fact of common descent: making testable predictions, testing hypotheses, and developing theories that illustrate and describe its causes.

Then on with the evidence that you don't see. Sections: 1. Genetics; 2. Evidence from comparative anatomy; 3. Evidence from paleontology; 4. Evidence from geographical distribution; 5. Evidence from observed natural selection; 6. Evidence from observed speciation; 7. Evidence from artificial selection; 8. Evidence from computation and mathematical iteration.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that delusional creationists refute reality. You're failing to acknowledge the existence of facts, no less.

reply to post by borntowatch


Me, personally, I don't have a clue how they date these things other than what I've already posted. But I guess you're right, I do have a kind of "faith" that the myriad of scientists and paleontologists who have spent their entire lives studying these artifacts know what they're doing. I also have some faith that I will wake up every morning. Maybe they're all wrong and maybe I won't wake up tomorrow. That doesn't make me religious. I do not now, nor have I in the past or will I in the future, subscribe to any religion.

The only evidence you have is your bible. That doesn't work for me. You can't prove the bible with the bible, so when you can prove what's in the bible with something else, please, feel free to share.

So far, radiometric dating works for me because I haven't seen anything better. When I do, I might change my mind but until then, I'll go with the idea that the earth is approximately 4-6 billion years old and the giant dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.

If some human-written, untested, unproven 2,000 year old book works for you, then

ETA: Oh, and your links, the one or two that were not religious-based sites, only refuted the accuracy of radiometric dating. They don't refute the age of fossils at all--only flaws in the processes used to date them.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Come on fella step up and convert this Christian to stupidity

This statement is an oxymoron. The fact that you put faith in the unknown suggests a lack of intelligence and investigative skills, that and being lazy.

"You know something God did that... that too... and that too." See where I'm going here.

Originally posted by Julio
This goes both ways;

In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?



The reason I ask this is because I see countless threads debating the same thing, whether it's on Facebook, Youtube, ATS, or random forums, and I never actually see someone question themselves.


(the following is just personal experience with the matter so feel free to skip past it, it's not that important

)

~~~
I am an atheist. About two years ago, me and my ex were having a debate about evolution vs creation. I was very surprised that she didn't understand the basic concept of what evolution was, and as I explained it to her, she began to question what she's believed in all her life. Last time I talked to her (around 6 months ago), she was still unsure what she believed in, having come from a born-again christian family.

Like I said, I am an atheist. I have never believed in any sort of god. The entire idea of it seems incredibly silly. However, sometimes when I read stories about ghostly encounters I really start to wonder. Millions of ghostly experiences have to mean something, right? Not everyone can simply be putting on hoaxes. Religious people call ghosts demons, and it actually creeps me out. I also get the heebie jeebies when I walk by a church. What bugs me is I don't believe it, yet it still is creepy.

~~~


Slightly unrelated, but what does is mean when people say they have a relationship with God? People will sometimes say they talk to God and God talks back. Please, no half-assed "it's an experience you can't explain, man", just give me the straight facts. I am legitimately curious, and I won't make fun of you. I get very frustrated when I ask a religious person what seems to be a simple question and they quote something out of the big B or speak in riddles.

I think most educated "christians" have no trouble with evolution these days. They typically see God as an engineer who set evolution in motion. It's the uneducated (private schooling) christians who never really have to answer debates like that. Their knowledge is faith only and no science.

Yes. I've been told that I make people question their faith.

There have been numerous times, like last night, when I've been told "we can't be friends". Last night, I was responding to yet another attempt to convert me. At least this time, it wasn't a girlfriend

I hope I'm doing some good here at ATS. My posts are sincere and from the hip. However, I can't seem to get, for the most part, stars or a response. There's no indication that my thoughts are being considered.

reply to post by Julio

"junk science"
"fairy tale evolution"
What part of evolution do you believe to be junk science? I am not being hostile, this is a sincere question.

First we must define what the word evolution means in the context of origins.

There are six stages of evolution in the belief system of the evolutionist. ( Belief and Faith are interchangeable requiring the same energy to fulfill. )

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
If you do not believe this is there or your belief look it up, but just as I believe a super natural creator did it all you must believe that a nothing did it all and since no one was there we both are believing on faith so origins is a religion.

Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Just as origins with nothing as the hero hydrogen some how creates all the know elements, and let it be said they have never done it in a lab past iron. So once again belief in something that can not be proved.
And elements decaying into something else is the opposite of evolution.


Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
In all the recorded history of star gazing new stars have never been documented only the lose.

Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Trillions of dollars have been spent only to discover life comes from life.


Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
No one has ever seen one type of animal give birth to another. Dogs always birth dogs.
And dead bones do not prove evolution;


Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”
This one both the creationist and evolutionist agree upon
You can breed dogs big to small but never out side there range.
This is the one that evolutionist use to prove all the rest as true.
There for evolution is a junk science.

There is much more but will not in this one post go down all the different road and make it a long read.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
First we must define what the word evolution means in the context of origins.

There are six stages of evolution in the belief system of the evolutionist. ( Belief and Faith are interchangeable requiring the same energy to fulfill. )

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
If you do not believe this is there or your belief look it up, but just as I believe a super natural creator did it all you must believe that a nothing did it all and since no one was there we both are believing on faith so origins is a religion.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Just as origins with nothing as the hero hydrogen some how creates all the know elements, and let it be said they have never done it in a lab past iron. So once again belief in something that can not be proved.
And elements decaying into something else is the opposite of evolution.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
In all the recorded history of star gazing new stars have never been documented only the lose.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory.

Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Trillions of dollars have been spent only to discover life comes from life.

Has nothing to do with evolution, and is not addressed by the theory. However, here I might add that remarkable advances have been made during the last few years, including spontaneous synthesis of most or all RNA bases, as well as spontaneous generation of self-replicating autocatalytic RNA molecules, which are widely believed to be the first forms of life on this planet according to the RNA world hypothesis. In other words, life already came from a test-tube in a human devised experiment. It's also safe to say that trillions of dollars were not spent for this research.

Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
No one has ever seen one type of animal give birth to another. Dogs always birth dogs.
And dead bones do not prove evolution;

And only creationists think that the theory of evolution postulates that one 'type of animal' gives birth to another 'type of animal', which of course it does not. For the actual mechanisms of speciation, look here. For evidence of common descent look here.

Micro-evolution: variations form within the “kind”
This one both the creationist and evolutionist agree upon
You can breed dogs big to small but never out side there range.
This is the one that evolutionist use to prove all the rest as true.

What you call macro is just a lot of accumulated micro. This is an artificial divide.

There for evolution is a junk science.

I believe the correct conclusion is that you're arguing from blissful ignorance. It's probably not your fault. I bet you were taught this ill version of evolution in some Sunday school. I don't lack faith in believing that fundamentalists deceive their young by all the possible means they can think of. Your brainwashing probably began when you were but a young child and likely lasted many years, thus of course it's nearly impossible for you to see the contradicting evidence even when it hits you in your face. It goes against some of your most core believes, or what makes "you". All I can say is that for a minute you should try to drop predisposition and then go through the contradicting evidence even though you "know" that it's wrong.

to be perfectly honest i haven't really had many discussions about it. i am a christian, but i view things differently based on experiences i've had and research. i think that the term God is not really much at all like what typical christians think it is.

i think it goes much, much deeper. i also tend to think that the people that Jesus spoke to seriously misunderstood what he was trying to tell them. i think we are all God, or sons of God. God is in each one of us. in other words, we are all connected. and possibly he didn't fight from being killed to show that a sacrifice, or dying for people you love is the ultimate proof of love. he wanted to share the message of love and freedom.

what he called sin seriously does keep people in chains. to me his message was love and freedom. now imagine trying to explain that someone, because i know i didn't do a very good job explaining it here.

i find it hard to know how to tell someone what i believe.

reply to post by Julio


Great question, and the word convert is really the illusion in this, there is nothing to convert there is nothing to "save" anyone from. Its all about frequency, and self actualization. Im a Christian and have been working on a presentation to help others remember what this God thing really is its written in our hearts, when we are little children we have an instinct of this LOVE. RESEARCH a few key things that in my experience help explain the infinite picture, *Tetragrammaton*, Wavelength, and study of what Light actually is. Vibration is language of god, do you know what the sun sounds like? look into divine proportion, solfeggio tones, colors are shapes and sounds too. EVERYTHING is light and reflections of waves. We're are WITHIN AND OF GOD. I know thats tricky because im explaining this in English and context is determined from perception which is frequently changing through knowledge and experience. The portrait of God has been skewed deliberately to mislead and control people, Religion has been subverted by people of empty intentions, its only a way of life for them.

They have rewritten and manipulated the bible since the bible has been, creating a behavior modification through guilt and projected false inadequacy issues. You can meet God and IT will reveal itself to you through FAITH, which is being certain of what is not seen, studying quantum and astronomy, you will eventually arrive to a "Field" conclusion of what everything that is IS. From divine faith to KNOWLEDGE OF GOD. We live forever and no matter how many bodies you've had your character carries and circumstances are left behind, heres the brilliance.. When you realize we live for ever, your life changes, your attitude changes, your perception changes, Karma means something different and you become Hyper-aware of deception, MY favorite line when i try to encourage closed minds they say this "Heaven is not down here, its up there." i say simply, "Where do you think we are?" the truth is we didnt REALLY even go anywhere, this has all been a perceived separation from God brought to you in part by YourSELF good and bad, why would we do this to ourselves? For the experience of knowing and feeling what it would be like to be without God. WE ARE LOVED SO MUCH. The show is almost over, there will be a worldwide round of applause as peace is declared on Earth. And whether anyone likes it or not, Everything is going to be just fine. Here seriously, look into it. Tetragrammaton, DNA, and Electromagnetic waves causing shape sound and light.




AND




This is the equal formula for DNA, truly incredible resemblance of "YHWH" or Tetragrammaton. God. Jah. countless names but all with the intent of the being that IS ALL THAT IS. gosh i know english is tricky, but i hope you can understand what im trying to get across.
That..



This is my experience and how ive found Peace and confirmation. Its for the seekers. Its all about Frequency and Intention. Time is non-linear and Earth is an Etheric Planet. ONE♥2012

"But don't take my word for it." - levar burton

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
nor will you be convincing any atheist of religion.

If you beat them over the head enough and hypnotize them when they're down, poor, drugged out, lonely, frightened, and desperate,

you might get somewhere.

Picard later admits he saw 5 lights.

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit


This is the equal formula for DNA

What is equal formula? Your picture looks nothing like the actual atomic structure of DNA.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
nor will you be convincing any atheist of religion.

If you beat them over the head enough and hypnotize them when they're down, poor, drugged out, lonely, frightened, and desperate....

You might get somewhere.

Picard later admits he saw 5 lights.

edit on 14-6-2012 by gentledissident because: wrong video lol

I wonder if those 2 realize just how genetically modified the modern banana is.

The original banana looked nothing like the variety 90% of the world eats today. NPR did a fascinating story on the history of the banana since 1500, it's one of the worlds first GMO foods.

reply to post by rhinoceros


You're right, because that is a chemical formula not a structural formula..

reply to post by AGWskeptic


I was going to say that.

So that "perfect" banana he's demonstrating in that video...yeah, not made by "God."

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

You're right, because that is a chemical formula not a structural formula..

If it's a formula, then why isn't it like "C2H2O5..". What's up with the random lines that make up the letters "Y" and "H"? I'm no chemist, but I can tell formulas don't have lines

Also there is no general formula for DNA as it is dependent on the molecula. DNA molecules come in all sizes and configurations (order of bases). There's no "standard" DNA molecule.

reply to post by gentledissident


That video with the banana is a staggering representation of ignorance on the side of creationists.

I mean look at the structure of the outside and inside of the natural banana.



Sure it is edible, but not nearly as user friendly or perfect as implied by those two loons.

ETA: I love that video BTW, makes me laugh every time.

reply to post by rhinoceros


More than one way to write a formula to convey the information of what makes DNA not "THE" DNA, its a "coincidence" then if youd like.. and they do have lines.

Originally posted by WhoTehCapFit
reply to post by rhinoceros

 

More than one way to write a formula to convey the information of what makes DNA not "THE" DNA, its a "coincidence" then if youd like.. and they do have lines.

For general structure of DNA look here. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything YAHWE related


edit. Having looked at your picture again. I don't think it even tries to depict DNA but a Tyrosine (Y) - Histidine (H) amino acid peptide. It has been many years since my obligatory biochemistry courses and truth be told, it never was my stronghold.

reply to post by Openeye


Pineapples are my favorite explanation next to Sunflowers. Creationists are lazy and their perception is misled that lil bubble they create in their heads is a delusion of Reality and their belief in that distortion has been dangerous and is still dangerous as realization and breakthroughs happen everyday completely challenging and removing old prejudices and ways of thinking. For 1500 years people thought the sun moved around the Earth, they were trapped in the illusion and when that Italian astronomer proposed that wasnt the case, instead of dealing with the mind boggling guilt of what that meant, they simply burned him at the stake... this is still the challenge today.. Ego and Arrogance.. Total denial of their own ignorance.. thats like stupid people dont know they're stupid, and NOT funny people don't know they're not funny.. I look at this world in a completely different perspective. Knowledge is power. *The more you know*

Originally posted by SerialKiller
Normal people question their beliefs constantly

I hate to be wrong. Wait, that didn't sound right. I love to be shown that I am wrong. I think maybe most of us want to be right. What I mean to say is, most of us want to carry correct thoughts. However, I get the feeling I examine all the possibilities more than a Christian. I could be wrong, but it seems like they don't allow themselves to question their beliefs.