Women In Masonry

LTD, you are quite correct on that point. My wife was interviewed, and one question she was asked was if she had any objection to my joining the fraternity. As a one time Jobs Daughter (imagine finding that out after petitioning to join, not in the years prior to my deciding to join...) she had no objection.

There have been cases of men wanting to join despite their wives objections, or wanting to keep joining a secret from their wives... and I have seen the lodges refuse, so a man cannot join unless his spouse agrees...

I have also seen the lodges go to great lengths to include wives and significant others in non tyled lodge activities, but never to the point of being included in actual membership...

So you just don't accept women because of the mere meaning of a word?

Men and women communicate and think differently, yes, but from those differences you can learn and broaden your horizon.

There are women with a more "male" view to society, with interests in sience and philosophy. I don't see why mixing would mean such a disaster, as long as you've got similar interests. But perhaps masons would be ashamed to perform their rituals in front of a mixed audience?

If I would like to be a mason (and yes, I am female) I'd have to join the mixed or female orders. I'd have no guarantee whether they actually practice the true rites and have the original teachings. I find that a highly disturbing matter.

By the way, I thought at the root of masonry lied a worshipping of the Madonna, black or otherwise.

[edit on 6-10-2004 by Cyborgwitch]

Originally posted by Cyborgwitch
So you just don't except women because of the mere meaning of a word?

I am not to sure on what you mean here... a woman is a woman as defined by her gender, not by her social attitude.

Men and women communicate and think differently, yes, but from those differences you can learn and broaden your horizon.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct, and for everything a time and a season. In the lodge is NOT the time for male-female interaction. In the lodge is the time and place for men to learn from men those things that can rightfully be learned and taught to men by men.

This is not to imply that women are inferior, quite the contrary, but as an acknowledgement that since there ARE differences, that we must, at times, accept those differences and learn from them as appropriate.

There are women with a more "male" view to society, with interests in sience and philosophy. I don't see why mixing would mean such a disaster, as long as you've got similar interests. But perhaps masons would be ashamed to perform their rituals in front of a mixed audience?

that is an interesting contention, but as my lawyers friends would not, not supported by facts in evidence. There may be women with more male outlooks, and men with more female outlooks, and society falls into a bell curve of behavior modalities from one end to the other. HOWEVER, that is NOT the issue here. Masonry has a tradition of allowing only men, and is aimed at men, for the benefit of men.

The question then arises, what benefit would MASONRY derive from having women as members? The MASONS are the best ones to determine that, and the MASONS, as a whole, have decided that we will maintain tradition (masonry is a VERY traditional organization) and not accept women as members.

So, are we missing out on the female perspective? I would argue that we are NOT. Our entire society is suffused with the female perspective over the past fifty years, and I would argue that we are OVERWHELMED with the "female" perspective. The Masons offer a place where male bonding and education can take place.

If I would like to be a mason (and yes, I am female) I'd have to join the mixed or female orders. I'd have no guarantee whether they actually practice the true rites and have the original teachings. I find that a highly disturbing matter.

I can understand why you might feel it is a disturbing matter, but that does not change that masonry was designed for men. It is, in a sense, the same as if you wanted access to the Catholic heirarchy as a priest, but as a women, it is not available to you. Does that make the RCC wrong? Or, as a women, you cannot access the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem... is it wrong or a disturbing matter?

Do you feel you should have the right to do anything you want simply because you want it? Why is it that some women feel they should be able to come into any group of men and become a part of it simply because they want to? And while I understand your point, can you not see how, to the men in these groups, your presence would be an unwanted, unwarranted, unnecessary and selfish intrusion?

Why is it that in today's society, when a group of men wish to meet and struggle within ourselves as men to be better men in service to society, that women feel a need to be a part of that? I guess that is the question I am asking.

Do I feel women are inferior? NO, not hardly. I have a wife, a daughter, and a granddaughter, I am under no illusions as to their frailty... but on the other hand, as a man, I can clearly see that the women in my life approach problems differently than I do... not better, not worse, just different, and sometimes, just sometimes, it is those differences that make us stronger OVERALL.

By the way, I thought at the root of masonry lied a worshipping of the Madonna, black or otherwise.

Not at all. Masonry does not have a specific godhead. Masons are ALL religions, and masonry does not ask its members how they worship g-d or know Him, only that they acknowledge a Supreme Being, however they know Him.

If I might respetfully add . . . . . sororities do NOT accept men, conversely.

Is it Masonry that is the problem, or gender-limited organizations to begin with?

Yes, it's not freemasonry solely that is to blame, but all wordly and non-wordly organizations that discriminate in one way or another. Islam, christianity, Judaism, whatever. It wasn't too long ago when women in this "civilized" western world weren't allowed to vote or get an education.
There was a time in my life when I strongly considered joining the masons or rosicrucians, because I hungered for knowledge. Know that I'm older I came to realise that true wisdom lies within oneself and that people really need to explore their own minds.
But one thing I miss, though, is people I can relate to. Sometimes it's a lonely job, being an inner explorer.....

The way sororities discrinimate against men is quite unjust.

*ahem*

BTW, I see you have some very nice work on deviantart . . .

[edit on 7-10-2004 by LTD602]

You are so right. (And I also feel that men should pick up knitting as a hobby .
N.B. Thanks for the compliment

[edit on 7-10-2004 by Cyborgwitch]

I suppose I just don't understand the objection. Why would a female want to join a fraternity...and why would a male want to join a sorority?

I don't see this as discrimination at all, and it's perfectly natural for males to hang out with male friends, and for females to do the same. I believe in the equality of gender, and would, in many cases, agree with my grandmother's words that there's not much than men can do that women can't do better. It's just that I don't comprehend the negativism toward gender-exclusive fraternal/sororal fellowship organizations. They've existed as long as our species has, and will probably exist until our species is extinct.

Fiat Lvx.

I think this type of problem will disappear soon. It's just an extention of women rights movement from the 60's to today. Vast improvements have been made and this type of "Why can't I go there?" is dying off. There's nothing wrong with a "men's only" org. same as a women's.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
...and why would a male want to join a sorority?


Fiat Lvx.

Hehe . . . I was joking, but I think you know what I meant . . . . . .

I do indeed know what you mean....

I recently found that there are at least two women's lodges in California that are renting the buildings for their rituals, one in Santa Monica and one in the San Diego area. Completely separate lodges, but the real masonic lodge rents its facilities out.

I personally find this very close to a violation of the obligaiton, but grand lodge has okayed it, as long as they do not let them use the regalia, help them with the ritual, or refer people to them.